Where to hang my arm...

X

xrbbaker

Registered
Hello all,

If anybody has some ideas, please share...

I'm an APA 5. Been playing for about 3-4 years. 47 years old. Basically I don't like my stroke/stance/grip. I believe a lot of this comes from my shooting arm (right) and how far away it is from my body. During a game I typically walk up on line, line up, bend over, then start stroking a bit. Many times the plane of the stroke doesn't line up perfectly to where I want it to. It is usually off only by a hair. I try to adjust by pulling my right arm a little closer or a little farther away from my body to line it up. Problem is when I stroke, my arm forgets about where I WANT it to line up and it falls into its natural groove. Typically it means an off center hit creating just enough throw on the CB to kick the OB off line.

I know. Just stand up and start over again. Problem is if I stand up and start over again and all I'm trying to do is move my arm plane 1cm to the right, odds are I'm not going to be on line the second time either. Thus lately I've been experimenting with this... I walk in on line, line up, bend over and let my right arm hang completely relaxed. I then stroke it a little bit. If I'm offline I adjust my feet slightly to the natural stroke line until that line is dead on. Then I shoot. In some cases I have amazing success. Also by keeping such a loose grip on the cue I get incredible action without trying. How weird is this?

One problem with this is trying to keep the right arm super relaxed. It works pretty well if I have a solid base to plant on but as soon as I'm jacked up on the side or trying to put a little force on it, my muscles are no longer relaxed. They are tense and when they are tense they tend to pull my stick closer in to my body. Thus I hang it loose for the line up but when I pull the trigger my right arm pulls in as it moves forward, shifting the tip to the right. I know. Don't do that...

I want to have a rock solid, dead straight, 100% reliable stroke. Do I try to create a straight path and force my muscles to remember that path, or do I try to find the natural path of my arm and adjust my stance around that?

Sorry if I sound like a crazy man. I'm convinced that a lot of my shooting errors is not because I don't know where to strike, but in the executing of the stroke. Any help greatly appreciated!
 
based off the idea that everything is based off of the back foot you can stand when sighting the ball and keep your back hand while holding the cue at your hip/side pocket...

make sure the thumb on the back hand is pointed straight down when your down in your stance ready to shoot, don't forget the light grip with the remaining fingers....the thumb is there only to point down and to keep the cue from jumping out the hand.

when you step in to the shot and drop down in your stance the hand will automatically come off the hip to its natural position which should be plumb with your back foot, elbow and shoulder.
 
Thanks for the tips. I'll check my thumb. I go through phases where I don't wrap my thumb at all. I just have the cue lying in my fingertips. Lately with my experimentation I've just been using thumb plus 1st and 2nd fingers.

Thx
 
I just spent two days working with a guy who had a very similar problem. We ended up having him place the cue on the aiming line with his grip hand hanging down at his hip. From there, he would step forward and get his bridge hand down on the table. This allowed his arm to already be hangning straight down when he got into the shooting position. Although it's too early for a final grade on the results, the early indications is this may well have fixed his problem.

Steve
 
I try to walk up basically pointing my stick at the CB as I approach it, while holding the stick straight out from my body, hand by my hip. Question: Is the straight back and straight forward stroke really a natural movement? It seems to me that if I do it loosely and let it fall into it's own groove, there is a bit of in and out, to/from my body with my right hand. Should I work on "overriding" the in and out and make it dead mechanically straight? Is the goal to create a new muscle memory pattern that falls straight forward and back? What drills would you recommend? The last thing I want to do is reinforce the WRONG muscle memories.

Thanks

Russ
 
xrbbaker said:
I try to walk up basically pointing my stick at the CB as I approach it, while holding the stick straight out from my body, hand by my hip. Question: Is the straight back and straight forward stroke really a natural movement? It seems to me that if I do it loosely and let it fall into it's own groove, there is a bit of in and out, to/from my body with my right hand. Should I work on "overriding" the in and out and make it dead mechanically straight? Is the goal to create a new muscle memory pattern that falls straight forward and back? What drills would you recommend? The last thing I want to do is reinforce the WRONG muscle memories.

Thanks

Russ
Click to expand...
Just a little tip that helped me (I was struggling with quite the same issue as yourself) - try to align more carefully your right shoulder (corresponding to your right stroke hand) to the shot line. Very often during transition down I was somehow wriggling my upper body (including my right shoulder + grip hand) out of the shot line.
When you get down on the shot line keep your right shoulder on the vertical shot plane. In this way your elbow+grip hand should fall in place and you won't have to fight your body alignment anymore.
 
Thanks. I'll experiment with the right shoulder. I have a bit of a stiff neck, difficult to turn to the left. As such when I get down into stance it is a bit of a strain to turn left and look down the line. As such I think my head sometimes drifts a bit to the right of the stick causing the stick to come across my body a bit. Maybe forcing the line with my shoulder will help. Dang it! Why do I have to site here and work when I could be practicing pool?!!!
 
xrbbaker said:
Thanks. I'll experiment with the right shoulder. I have a bit of a stiff neck, difficult to turn to the left. As such when I get down into stance it is a bit of a strain to turn left and look down the line. As such I think my head sometimes drifts a bit to the right of the stick causing the stick to come across my body a bit. Maybe forcing the line with my shoulder will help. Dang it! Why do I have to site here and work when I could be practicing pool?!!!
Click to expand...
I ask myself the same question daily when I'm at work :-)
But you know what - in these tough times we are lucky to have a job...and in the end we can play pool in the afternoon ;-)
 
practice

Yeah - but I work out of the house. Thus I can hear my table down in the basement calling out, "Play with me!!!" Well, maybe 30 minutes wouldn't hurt anything... :)
 
xrbbaker said:
Thanks. I'll experiment with the right shoulder. I have a bit of a stiff neck, difficult to turn to the left. As such when I get down into stance it is a bit of a strain to turn left and look down the line. As such I think my head sometimes drifts a bit to the right of the stick causing the stick to come across my body a bit. Maybe forcing the line with my shoulder will help. Dang it! Why do I have to site here and work when I could be practicing pool?!!!
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with the cue coming across your body a bit. Unless you are completely square to the table in a snooker stance, it is going to come across your body. What you want is to have your elbow and shoulder both directly above the cue in the same line. Get your body positioned comfortably with those things in place. Then, if all you do is swing your foream back and forth, the cue has no choice but to move in a straight line. And that is the goal of a good stroke. How it moves in relation to your body isn't as important as how it moves along the aiming line. If that movement is straight, you've got a good stroke.

Steve
 
exercises

Thanks Steve. Are there any exercises you can recommend? I have a 9ft table and shoot a long shot across the diagonal. The stroke has to be very pure or it misses. Any other suggestions?

Thx
 
xrbbaker said:
Thanks Steve. Are there any exercises you can recommend? I have a 9ft table and shoot a long shot across the diagonal. The stroke has to be very pure or it misses. Any other suggestions?

Thx
Click to expand...

to add to what your already doing:

draw a line across the table with white chalk...the cue should stay in line with that line which both CB and OB will be on.

You can also do that length of table and make the CB come back to your tip....draw and use the line

you can practice shooting stop, follow, draw shots at varying lengths also on that diagonal shot.
 
What you need to do is establish the precise set up position that has everything on the proper plane. Then you have to determine where your grip hand ends up when you perform a pure pendilum stroke. (That spot is usually in the side of your chest).
Now all you have to do is get into the same starting position every shot, and finish in the same finish position every time. What happens in between then becomes very predictable, and gives you a consistent, repeatable stroke.

Steve
 
good ideas

Dang. Very good ideas all and here it is 8:03 and still at work. Chomping to try some of this out.


Another observation...

I was told my my coach to shorten my bridge length. Less backswing=less chance for wobble, plus one really doesn't need more than 6 inches to deliver all the power needed. I get that. During my experimentation I've been playing around with a long bridge length. One thing I notice is that with a long bridge length it is easier to see if the stroke is out of plane. This is because your eye sees more "travel motion" of the cue and has more length of it to judge whether it gets off line. Does it make sense to consider a longer bridge for the purpose of ensuring a straight stroke? As an aside I also notice that the action I get from a long bridge is simply amazing. To get that bridge length I end up holding the butt of the stick. I think I'm just about letting go of the stick when it hits the CB and for some reason that gives it killer action.

Thanks very much everyone.
 
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xrbbaker said:
Dang. Very good ideas all and here it is 8:03 and still at work. Chomping to try some of this out.


Another observation...

I was told my my coach to shorten my bridge length. Less backswing=less chance for wobble, plus one really doesn't need more than 6 inches to deliver all the power needed. I get that. During my experimentation I've been playing around with a long bridge length. One thing I notice is that with a long bridge length it is easier to see if the stroke is out of plane. This is because your eye sees more "travel motion" of the cue and has more length of it to judge whether it gets off line. Does it make sense to consider a longer bridge for the purpose of ensuring a straight stroke? As an aside I also notice that the action I get from a long bridge is simply amazing. To get that bridge length I end up holding the butt of the stick. I think I'm just about letting go of the stick when it hits the CB and for some reason that gives it killer action.

Thanks very much everyone.
Click to expand...

Everyone has a "natural" bridge length (and followthrough); you just need to have it measured. It is not true that you only need 6 inches of backswing...or followthrough. While many players fall within the 6" group, as many or more fall outside the 'range', with 7-9 inch natural finishes...with no elbow drop. Some will be much less than 6 inches. It's all about how your arm works with your body. That's what having your personal shooting template is about...measuring what you do, and how you do it. The other thing it does is create your 'perfect process', part of which is learning how to let the cue do all the work, in your stroke. That's what you experienced when you thought you were 'letting go' of the cue..."feeling" the cue...that's what delivers that killer action you spoke of. You can't learn to feel it with a tight grip. Find an SPF instructor, and get your template measured. It will the best thing you can do for your pool game.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
SPF Biliards instructor

Hello Scott -

What does SPF certified mean? I can find very little info on it on he web. Similarly, is there a link you know of where can I find SPF billiards instructors in MD area?

Thanks

Russ
 
Russ,
Rufus Carter is up your way in Fairfax VA. 703-909-0774

If you can't work things out with him, give me a call...I can make a weekend road trip up your way. I believe Randy does an annual trip to the Hagarstown area as well.

Scott loves to travel.

You've got quite a few options.

Steve
 
Russ...SPF stands for Set, Pause, Finish...which are the three stops we all have in our strokes. We're a group of BCA Certified instructors who teach the same basic principles, of how to build an accurate, repeatable stroke. Rufus is a great choice! I also have plans to be in MD in a couple of weeks, to work with a couple of other students. I'll be working my way up the east coast, all the way to Maine. PM me if you're interested.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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