where to place cue ball for eight on the break?

The loose balls thing I was discussing is semi-repeatable. Note, it isn't some guarantee, but you will get the 8-ball to that pocket or within an inch at a much greater frequency over the course of many breaks. Will you make it? All depends on the speed of the 8 if it can reach there, if it doesn't get kissed or blocked etc...

When I used to play league pool, a teammate of mine was totally skeptical. So I told him "watch this"...and as I racked for the guy I was playing against (another teammate)..I left the ball in the middle opposite his break side not touching just a little. Just a little gap. He's a 2nd ball style side breaker. He's also a weak player and not that strong of a breaker, but even with that - on the ensuing break the 8-ball was nearly pocketed. I did that 4 times in a row (never telling the breaker, just my skeptical teammate) and everytime but once, the 8-ball was nearly made. As soon as I racked properly, the 8 balls movement over the next few racks was much less.


Of course, some tables play different, and the break is random and this isn't going to happen all the time - but just happens more often. Also, some ball sets have balls that are different sizes due to wear or they were swapped or mixed up with an older set that was worn out. That can have interesting effects on the break.


This is my experience with that particular issue. I was always oblivious to this stuff until I was playing in a local tournament in NY years ago. It was 9-ball, race to 6. My opponent made the 9 three times on the break against me. My friend (a semi-pro player, was with him at the IPT tournament) asked me if any of the balls behind the 9 were loose. I thought back and said "yes, as a matter of fact"...the cloth had tracks from being worn out, and the rear balls wouldn't stick to the 9 very close...they always wanted to settle into their grooves leaving gaps. I was careless, and my opponent had a good break. His good break, and my ignorance equalled 3 wins right on the break, which is too high of a frequency for 9-ball. A better racking job on my part might have prevented all 3, or at the very least, 2 of them (you can never guarantee that your oppoent can't make it on the break).

Lessons like these are learned the hard way. Some of you might say "well duh"...but I was clueless at the time.


Sorry, anyway - not trying to hijack the thread.
 
TannerPruess said:
Why is it very illegal to hit the 3rd ball?

Someone said in the leagues either APA or the other ones it was very illegal to hit the third ball. So i guess it just depends on the rules on where you play, here in our town leagues it doesn't matter where you hit the rack as long as four or more balls touch the rail after breaking.
 
TannerPruess said:
Why is it very illegal to hit the 3rd ball?

It is legal in BCA rules (i.e. really Real Rules):

4.5 LEGAL BREAK SHOT
(Defined) To execute a legal break, the breaker (with the cue ball behind the head string) must either (1) pocket a ball, or (2) drive at least four numbered balls to the rail. When the breaker fails to make a legal break, it is a foul, and the incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the table in position and shooting, or (2) having the balls re-racked and having the option of shooting the opening break or allowing the offending player to re-break.


It is Not legal in APA rules:

3. Breaking - To be a legal break, players must break
from behind the head string, the head ball or second
ball must be struck first and at least four object balls
must be driven to the rails or a ball must be pocketed.
The cue ball may not be shot into a rail before the rack.
If the break does not qualify as legal, the balls are
reracked and rebroken by the same player. If the break
does not qualify as legal and results in a scratch, the
balls are reracked and broken by the opposite player.


APA rules only make sense in coin-op tables where you can't spot the 8-ball. I hate that IPT uses bases their rules on APA.Those are bush league rules for bangers. IPT isn't "real pool with real rules." BCA is "real rules."
 
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i had two last weekend.
one in a warm up game on a barbox before league play.vnea.8 ball break is a win,do not have to call pocket.

and one saturday night on a 9 ftr. playing with my wife.

the friday night break,the eight was kicked in,the other went in on it's own.

i break from the box.half a diamond from center,about midway between the end rail and the headspot.always low,but i do change the english.i usually use inside,but at times will hit center.
 
havoc said:
i had two last weekend.
one in a warm up game on a barbox before league play.vnea.8 ball break is a win,do not have to call pocket.

and one saturday night on a 9 ftr. playing with my wife.

the friday night break,the eight was kicked in,the other went in on it's own.

i break from the box.half a diamond from center,about midway between the end rail and the headspot.always low,but i do change the english.i usually use inside,but at times will hit center.
If you make 8-ball on the break in VNEA leagues you spot it and continue shooting or re-rack. Unless you scratch and then your opponent has the options.
 
TannerPruess said:
If you make 8-ball on the break in VNEA leagues you spot it and continue shooting or re-rack. Unless you scratch and then your opponent has the options.


not here in pa.
unless they do this on their own.there is a print out every week and 8 ball breaks are compilled,as are your wins,losses,scores,and other stats.

they never told me that it was the vnea,but i got a vnea patch after paying my sanctioning fee,so i assume this is the vnea.
 
8 ball break

Well I was telling my friends about this method of pocketing the 8 ball on the break. I have started in a new league that is all on bar boxes, and there is no rule about contacting the head ball of the rack first. So I was telling them about this, and they were all like yea right.

So for my first break I did it, and kazzam the 8 sank in the side pocket. I looked at the coach, and said put me down for a win coach. She looked up and was like damn.

Everyone on the team asked me how to do that, so for the rest of the night most of our breaks put the 8 near the side pocket.

Once I get it perfected I will kill them on it! LOL

I already knew how to do it, I have just never tried it. Now that I am on a league that I can do this, I will continue to do it. Cause even when the 8 didn't fall I got a good break out of it.

In my BCA leauge you have to hit the head ball of the rack first, so you can't do this, and I have called people on it before.

I just wanted to let everyone know how effective it is, cause I sunk the 8 on the first try.

Here comes my 8 ball break trophy!!!
 
8 on the break...

Since rules have been changed where 8 on the break doesn't win, is respotted, it is really of no concern (except tournaments that pay for it).
The side break on the 2nd ball can work very good sometimes, but I still believe a good front break gets better spreads than side breaks do over the long run.

Now, we have a player, leaque operator also, that has come as close to perfecting the side break than anyone else I have seen. He doesn't break from clear over at the side, but midway from the side to the center point of the kitchen line, and most of the time, he just barely niks the head ball on the side before hitting the 2nd ball. I thought he was grazing the head ball by mistake, but I have studied him for a long time, and he is an excellent player, and am convinced that he is breaking them just how he wants to break them. He also makes several 8 on the breaks.

I started out on the 2nd ball break using inside english, but jumped the table too much, and now use outside low english with good results, but generally I prefer my front break unless the tables are breaking hard, then the side break helps out.

On another note, playing in a tournament 1 time under BCA rules, and before I got my break under control, I wound up, and the cue ball went to the left of the rack with lots of low right english, came off the end rail, and hit between the corner ball and 2nd ball in the back row, and made a ball. Things were halted because the break was questioned, they looked up the rules, and it was deemed a legal break per BCA rules, I then preceeded to run out what was a very difficult table because of clusters.
My opponent was just beside himself, you see, it was hill-to-hill before I broke, so I won the match .... lol
 
Cornerman said:
Does that also mean that it's an IPT rule to rack the one ball on the head spot???

Fred
Fred - almost. IPT rules require the one ball to be in the front of the rack on the FOOT spot. The one ball must be contacted first by the CB on the break and you must break from the box. Can't break from the rail or hit the second ball first.
 
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