Which ball was hit first?
- Thread starter Double-Dave
- Start date
Th
That was not the question ;-)
But, you'll be pleased to know the 3 hit the short rail, as can be seen in the video by the shade changing direction.
That was not the question ;-)
But, you'll be pleased to know the 3 hit the short rail, as can be seen in the video by the shade changing direction.
The cue ball decay is in the direction of the 5. Can't be certain if the spin turned it or the sequence of hits directed the momentum that way. Given that and the proximity of the 3, that's 2 for the three and none for the 5. I gotta stick with good hit.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Five. The cueball follows the carom angle of the last hit on the three after contact.
Simultaneous would closely follow the angle perpendicular to the line between the the two balls, but more towards the bottom of the screen.
Simultaneous would closely follow the angle perpendicular to the line between the the two balls, but more towards the bottom of the screen.
On youtube, playing at .25 speed, it appears that there is a one-two contact sound, which to mean means something did get hit first. It looks like the 5, but the frame rate is too low to tell. Even with the video [recorded in normal motion and this frame rate], I'd probably give it to the shooter.
In the future, you should try to record in slow motion and more frames per second to verify. I think iphones can do up to 240 frame per second, which should provide more clarity.
-td
In the future, you should try to record in slow motion and more frames per second to verify. I think iphones can do up to 240 frame per second, which should provide more clarity.
-td
From the action of the cue ball, it is very clear that it was in contact with both balls at the same time. Since the contact time is around a tenth of a thousandth of a second, this is a remarkable result. It is rare but I have seen it before. I have shot between a pair like that and drawn the cue ball nearly straight back.
Given that the contact was overlapping and way under a thousandth of a second, any apparent "two hit" sound could only be from an echo in the recording setup. It was not from the balls.
If there had been no overlapping hit, the cue ball would have exited with much larger speed (a quarter of its original speed) to the northwest if it had struck the 3 first or to the southwest if it had struck the 5 first. Instead, it nearly stopped but with some slight northwest speed and then follow carried it forward but with a slight northward movement.
Given that the contact was overlapping and way under a thousandth of a second, any apparent "two hit" sound could only be from an echo in the recording setup. It was not from the balls.
If there had been no overlapping hit, the cue ball would have exited with much larger speed (a quarter of its original speed) to the northwest if it had struck the 3 first or to the southwest if it had struck the 5 first. Instead, it nearly stopped but with some slight northwest speed and then follow carried it forward but with a slight northward movement.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
The proof is in the direction the cueball moved. No two ways about it. It is a foul that shouldn't be called in normal circumstances.
Definitely give it to the shooter, every time.
The rules say the opposite, more or less:
If the cue ball strikes a legal object ball and a non-legal object ball at approximately the same instant, and it cannot be determined which ball was hit first, it will be assumed that the legal target was struck first.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Tie goes to the runner.
okay i will acquiesce to this one then. my bad.
but doesnt seem right.
"hey bud im going to try to hit the 8 ball first but no way will we able able to tell which i hit first so its a fair shot."
bud says " no sweat thats okay" i will let you win the set then.
but doesnt seem right.
"hey bud im going to try to hit the 8 ball first but no way will we able able to tell which i hit first so its a fair shot."
bud says " no sweat thats okay" i will let you win the set then.
Looks more like the rock follows the 5, not any carom angle. There is no bend per se. The rock hit the three/five and then followed the five. It's very possible that there was insufficient angular momentum to change the path of the rock and the right spin turned it to the left.
To me the impact dynamics are so "tiny" all you can tell is one object rolls into another bigger object and "careens" to the left (from the shooter's POV).
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
When is the last time you hit a ball at an angle and were able to follow that ball?
The second carom off the three sends the cueball perpendicular to the path of the three, which is, coincidentally, the same direction the five is traveling from the initial hit.
The ball is aimed at a split (EQUAL) hit. The ball hits the 3/5 split at a speed that creates negligible cling/bounce/throw/ etc... it just wants to continue going forward. It seems momentarily stunned and then decides to follow the 5 as if it had hit it full. There was no deflection by carom, just a redirection of force. THIS is where it's possible the english alone steered the ball but you'd need NASA to explain that.
Care to put any logic to this?
But if the cue ball had hit the 3 a millisecond before the 5 it would definitely have been going up (and to the left). I think that argues for 3 first and then the 5 also.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
I wouldn't call it on an opponent and I wouldn't argue if it were called on me.
I agree completely on your analysis.