Which is More Difficult -- Finding the Ghost Ball or Adjusting for Squirt/Swerve?

[BasementDweller]

This is sort of a follow up to my last thread about high deflection shafts.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=359576

I thought it would be interesting to run a quick poll among those that hang out in the Aiming Forum.

What do you find more difficult, finding the actual ghost ball position -- using your aiming system of choice or adjusting your aim line for squirt and swerve?

 

[(((Satori)))]

This is sort of a follow up to my last thread about high deflection shafts.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=359576

I thought it would be interesting to run a quick poll among those that hang out in the Aiming Forum.

What do you find more difficult, finding the actual ghost ball position -- using your aiming system of choice or adjusting your aim line for squirt and swerve?

If someone can't find the ghostball then they can't find the tangent line, so if that is difficult for them then they are pretty much screwed.

 

[Neil]

If someone can't find the ghostball then they can't find the tangent line, so if that is difficult for them then they are pretty much screwed.

I disagree. I can easily draw a line from the pocket through the ob and get my tangent line by just going ninety degrees off it. I don't think anyone can reliably find the center of the ghost ball on the table from a distance.

 

[Neil]

This is sort of a follow up to my last thread about high deflection shafts.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=359576

I thought it would be interesting to run a quick poll among those that hang out in the Aiming Forum.

What do you find more difficult, finding the actual ghost ball position -- using your aiming system of choice or adjusting your aim line for squirt and swerve?

I said ghost ball is harder. However, your question is ambiguous. There is a difference between placing the cb where the ghost ball would be, and finding the ghost ball itself. If one is using the true ghost ball method of aiming, you will not be able to accurately predict just where the center of the ghost ball is on the table.

Now, if you are just talking about getting the cb to the spot it needs to be to make the ob, then adjusting for squirt/swerve is harder by far.

 

[336Robin]

Agree

I disagree. I can easily draw a line from the pocket through the ob and get my tangent line by just going ninety degrees off it. I don't think anyone can reliably find the center of the ghost ball on the table from a distance.

I support your view. Whoever came up with the Ghost ball was only thinking about the second half of potting a shot. The first half the aiming half was left alone and its been interesting ever since.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I disagree. I can easily draw a line from the pocket through the ob and get my tangent line by just going ninety degrees off it.

If you can do that then you should be able to use the parallel system to find the contact point on the cueball, line them up, and voilà... ghostball.


At least you admit to being able to find the contact point. I never understood someone not being able to find "one of the subjective 360 ticks" as Stan calls it, because as I said, if you can't find the contact point then you can't find the tangent line.

 

[duckie]

I said ghost ball is harder. However, your question is ambiguous. There is a difference between placing the cb where the ghost ball would be, and finding the ghost ball itself. If one is using the true ghost ball method of aiming, you will not be able to accurately predict just where the center of the ghost ball is on the table.

Now, if you are just talking about getting the cb to the spot it needs to be to make the ob, then adjusting for squirt/swerve is harder by far.

Speak for yourself....... I have no issue using GB and adjusting when needed.

And I never predict where the center of the GB is....I know where it is....but then again I'm special.

Once again......it ain't the system but how you use it. If you can not use ghost ball, this does not mean there are those that can use it quite well.

I must be special in that I have never needed to adjust for squirt/swerve, but have had to when using spin.

 

[Neil]

Speak for yourself....... I have no issue using GB and adjusting when needed.

And I never predict where the center of the GB is....I know where it is....but then again I'm special.

Once again......it ain't the system but how you use it. If you can not use ghost ball, this does not mean there are those that can use it quite well.

I must be special in that I have never needed to adjust for squirt/swerve, but have had to when using spin.

So you are saying that you can accurately see a spot on the cloth exactly 1 1/8" from the contact point of the ob? Because, if you are actually using ghost ball, you are shooting the center of the cb to the center of the imaginary ghost ball.

I don't believe you can do that, because I have never met anyone that can accurately point to that spot on the cloth.

Your last sentence I don't understand. It contradicts itself.

 

[Neil]

If you can do that then you should be able to use the parallel system to find the contact point on the cueball, line them up, and voilà... ghostball.


At least you admit to being able to find the contact point. I never understood someone not being able to find "one of the subjective 360 ticks" as Stan calls it, because as I said, if you can't find the contact point then you can't find the tangent line.

I used to aim by the contact point- equal/opposite method. I believe that those that say they use ghost ball are actually doing the equal/opposite method and not realizing it. I have yet to meet someone that actually used ghost ball. Many say they do, but when you break down what they are actually doing, it isn't ghost ball.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I used to aim by the contact point- equal/opposite method. I believe that those that say they use ghost ball are actually doing the equal/opposite method and not realizing it. I have yet to meet someone that actually used ghost ball. Many say they do, but when you break down what they are actually doing, it isn't ghost ball.

Ultimately I believe the key to consistency for me is to be able to get a clear picture in my head that communicates a precise outcome to my subconscious mind. Today in most instances I just see where the ghostball needs to be without conscious calculations. More importantly I see the path the objectball needs to take and the cueball following it's path after contact.

 

[victorl]

With all the back-and-forth going on lately, I think we'd all like to see Duckie and Neil play a grudge match to settle things once and for all. Neil would probably need to give up the 4 out and the breaks, though, and even then, I'd still bet on him.

 

[BasementDweller]

With all the back-and-forth going on lately, I think we'd all like to see Duckie and Neil play a grudge match to settle things once and for all. Neil would probably need to give up the 4 out and the breaks, though, and even then, I'd still bet on him.

Na -- Neil should play someone much closer to home.

Hmmmm.....if only he wasn't so far away from me.

That's about as loud as I bark.

yip...yip

 

[Neil]

Na -- Neil should play someone much closer to home.

Hmmmm.....if only he wasn't so far away from me.

That's about as loud as I bark.

yip...yip

You are welcome to come here anytime to play some. No grudge on my part at all.

I need to state though, that I don't believe playing ability after a certain level has much, if anything, to do with showing who is right about certain aspects. Someone can play any old way they want to for 10 hours a day, get pretty darn (edit that is d a r n, not the other that it looks like) proficient at it doing it their way, and be able to beat someone that plays maybe one hour every other day but knows the right way to do things. Time on the table means a lot for everyone.

(not directed at you, just stating it in general. If you are who I think you are, you play pretty sporty yourself)

 

[Neil]

With all the back-and-forth going on lately, I think we'd all like to see Duckie and Neil play a grudge match to settle things once and for all. Neil would probably need to give up the 4 out and the breaks, though, and even then, I'd still bet on him.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but sheesh, I sure hope I can't give him that and still win.

 

[BasementDweller]

You are welcome to come here anytime to play some. No grudge on my part at all.

I need to state though, that I don't believe playing ability after a certain level has much, if anything, to do with showing who is right about certain aspects. Someone can play any old way they want to for 10 hours a day, get pretty darn (edit that is d a r n, not the other that it looks like) proficient at it doing it their way, and be able to beat someone that plays maybe one hour every other day but knows the right way to do things. Time on the table means a lot for everyone.
(not directed at you, just stating it in general. If you are who I think you are, you play pretty sporty yourself)

I may take you up on that offer someday but you should know that grudge matches sell W-A-Y more tickets.:thumbup:

And I pretty much agree with the bolded part above with the exception of the guy that talks like he's a world champion and then he gets on the table and he can't run three balls. If someone can't reasonably rate their own game and understand where their game fits in the big scheme of things -- then they shouldn't be giving advice quite so freely on a pool forum (obviously not aimed at you).

See you around.

 

[nobcitypool]

If Duckie plays Neil straight up, I've got Neil for $500.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Neil plays really well...duckie is drawing dead.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[Ratta]

can i bet per paypal? ^^

 

[duckie]

Isn't it interesting when there is no argument against statement, the personal attacks start.

Seems so many know how I play without ever seeing me play......guess yall just will never know huh........been telling yall where I play and no one has ever taken me up on the offer.

Just saying yall would be surprise how well I can use Ghost Ball and until you see this in action at the table playing me, yall are just talking out your ass....as usual.

 

[sfleinen]

Isn't it interesting when there is no argument against statement, the personal attacks start.

Seems so many know how I play without ever seeing me play......guess yall just will never know huh........been telling yall where I play and no one has ever taken me up on the offer.

Just saying yall would be surprise how well I can use Ghost Ball and until you see this in action at the table playing me, yall are just talking out your ass....as usual.

Ok, you 14.1-playing-devil, you! Gosh, I just wish I could play as much 14.1 and be as good as you. I mean, *everyone* here knows how superior a player you are, because you have all these arrow stickies on your table.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say the reason why the last hint that you'd ever been at the 14.1 subforum is several years ago, is because YOU DON'T NEED TO. You're just far too superior a player with your be-all/end-all ghostball aiming, to be bothered with what we lower-minioned 14.1 devotees talk about in relation to patterns, cluster management, break-ball options, "last five," triangles, etc. I imagine that's just Pez candy dispenser stuff to you, oh water-paddling one.

Sarcasm aside, it's really convenient to bark from your "safe" little abode in plastic-minded California. Some of us that would really love to play you are just plain too far away, and are not in a position to travel on a whim. So you keep barking.

-Sean <-- current employ, HP, has a huge campus in Palo Alto, which is only a 20-minute drive away from Milpitas according to Google Maps. I'm going to have to see if local management would allow a "training seminar" trip out to Palo Alto out of the local travel budget. If so, some duck fricassee is on the 14.1 menu!