lewdo26 said:
Charles, of course I know you! We played last Sunday! We'll talk later. That'd be fun!
Which is the easier game?
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Charles, of course I know you! We played last Sunday! We'll talk later. That'd be fun!
It was alluded to earlier . . . . . 8-ball is easier when played at a lower level, due to more options (balls) when you get to the table (usually). It's much harder for your opponent to hide whitey from all of your balls and at the lower levels players are normally not playing safe anyway.
All the factors of patterns, safes, small cluster breakouts, etc. are the norm at the pro level in 8-ball. So, I think it is the harder game when used in the context of the IPT-level of play. Wellllll, maybe not harder, but provides a more well-rounded test of abilities, thinking and table management.
All the factors of patterns, safes, small cluster breakouts, etc. are the norm at the pro level in 8-ball. So, I think it is the harder game when used in the context of the IPT-level of play. Wellllll, maybe not harder, but provides a more well-rounded test of abilities, thinking and table management.
Billy_Bob said:
Wait a minute, Billy Bob...didn't you tell us the story of your neighbor's wife suddenly starting to beat up on you guys in 8-ball? How did she do this? According to you definitions of players, above, she is the "lesser skilled player." If you mean lesser skilled at potting balls, maybe you're right. But then, how could a "lesser skilled player" beat a "better player?" By using her mind. Which skill is more important in 8-ball?
A waitress at the local coffee shop told me she just started playing 8-ball with her boyfriend(s). I told her 3 simple things to do to win, as she was expressing dismay at always losing. She told me the next day that she beat her boyfriend so many times that he quit, stomped off and went to play video games.
She then asked me for more tips on 8-ball. She was so happy. 
So, is 8-ball is an intellectual game only? No. Once the table is open just enough, commitment to running out is necessary. If you can't do that, then you will lose. So 8-ball has the best of both worlds: intellectual and physical.
Loree Jon may just kick Mike's ass. It wouldn't surprise me a bit and I hope she does. And I hope Joe 6-pack becomes interested in playing more and playing better.
Jeff Livingston
zeeder said:
Straight Pool is an interesting animal. I don't know if I'd be so quick to catagorize it as chess (though I know that's the popular analogy). Straight Pool relies heavily on pocketing skills rather than 8-ball which can have a lot of exchange when played on small enough equipment. In that sense, 8-ball and 1-pocket rely heavily on what your opponent does as opposed to other games which really are about playing the table.
Jude Rosenstock said:
Yeah, I hesitated a little putting straight pool in the chess category, but it's not all 100 ball runs and the safety portion of the game can get quite strategic. That being said, I'm not at the level where it really matters. If I hit the end rail with any ball I consider myself lucky!
I can also see where 8-ball does have a decent amount of strategy, and like you said it has to be played on small, tight equipment. I never get to play on tight equipment be it small or large table though.
As usual, Chefjeff came up with a balanced, and intelligent post. I also took exception to what Billy Bob said about it being harder to beat "lesser skilled players". I think just the opposite, I think that is much more likely in 9 ball. Further, Bob, I think "no safety" 8 ball is almost a contradiction in terms. It completely ruins the integrity of the game. JMHO.chefjeff said:Wait a minute, Billy Bob...didn't you tell us the story of your neighbor's wife suddenly starting to beat up on you guys in 8-ball? How did she do this? According to you definitions of players, above, she is the "lesser skilled player." If you mean lesser skilled at potting balls, maybe you're right. But then, how could a "lesser skilled player" beat a "better player?" By using her mind. Which skill is more important in 8-ball?
A waitress at the local coffee shop told me she just started playing 8-ball with her boyfriend(s). I told her 3 simple things to do to win, as she was expressing dismay at always losing. She told me the next day that she beat her boyfriend so many times that he quit, stomped off and went to play video games.
So, is 8-ball is an intellectual game only? No. Once the table is open just enough, commitment to running out is necessary. If you can't do that, then you will lose. So 8-ball has the best of both worlds: intellectual and physical.
Loree Jon may just kick Mike's ass. It wouldn't surprise me a bit and I hope she does. And I hope Joe 6-pack becomes interested in playing more and playing better.
Jeff Livingston
chefjeff said:
As I recall with one game, I shot in all of my balls except 3, then it was an easy run-out. But she managed to keep attempting to pocket her balls, while at the same time leaving me without a shot. (And I assumed that she would not be able to continue doing this, so I pretty much left my balls where they were.) So she kept nudging her balls closer to the pocket each time. Finally, they were all hangers and she was easily able to run-out.
And this is exactly what I taught her to do. Hit softly and at least get her balls closer to the pocket *and* leave the cue ball in a nast spot for her opponent. [Leaving cue ball in nasty spot being most important - better to not even attempt to make a pocket if necessary.] And that is what she did. So she was using her mind to get even with us guys. And so far as which skill is more important, I think safety play (using your mind) is more important in both 8-ball and 9-ball. I've noticed many games won with safety play by players who can't hit a bull in the butt with a base fiddle!
I consider myself a good 8-ball player. I've won individual 1st place in my BCA league 3 of the past 5 years. I also play in a BCA 9-ball league. I've finished 2nd and 3rd the past two years. Both leagues are probably 70-80% bangers.
I'd definitely say that smarter players win more 8-ball because there is more strategy. Good 9-ballers are probably better shot makers and definitely better closers.
I myself have noticed recently as I'm playing more 9-ball, I actually run way more racks of 8-ball than 9-ball, even on smaller equipment.
Anyway, here's my league stats last year:
8-ball
Played 100
Won 88
9-ball
Played 120
Won 80
I'd definitely say that smarter players win more 8-ball because there is more strategy. Good 9-ballers are probably better shot makers and definitely better closers.
I myself have noticed recently as I'm playing more 9-ball, I actually run way more racks of 8-ball than 9-ball, even on smaller equipment.
Anyway, here's my league stats last year:
8-ball
Played 100
Won 88
9-ball
Played 120
Won 80
Jude Rosenstock said:
Disagree. I know what you're getting at. You like more congestion to make running out more difficult. But once you have an open table, a D player can run out on a barbox. No so on a 9ft with tight(er) pockets. 7ft table 8ball equalizes skills a bit too much. Of course the best would still win in the long run, but still...I just don't like coin-op tables in general, they're ugly and not nearly as much fun to play on as 9ft tables.
There are no barboxes in Taiwan and Philippines, two strongest countries in pool. And they do play 8ball as well. This years WPC in Taiwan was held on tables with tighter pockets than usual (there were pictures online somewhere, 2 balls don't fit into the mouth of the corner pocket, 4 and 1/4 inch or so)...on those tables 8ball would be quite a challenge even for the pros.
Sweet Marissa said:
You are not playing 8-ball properly if you aren't thinking about shape, strategy, and defense. I feel there is an illusion that 8-ball is easier because you can opt out of tough shots sometimes for another, and frankly when pro-level players play it, it's usually a 1 inning affair. However, when normal people play either it is more often a multi-inning affair, and in those circumstances there is more thinking involved in 8-ball. Shot selection can be critical in 8-ball, in 9-ball it is dictated by the layout with a quick glance. Due to the multitude of balls available to your opponent safety play is more difficult in 8-ball.
JMHO
catscradle said:
Agreed. 8-ball is even more a run-out game than 9-ball. If in 9-ball the break is important, it's even more important in 8-ball. I've played many many 8-ball matches in tournaments in which players don't make any errors or just 1. It all comes down to the break. In 9-ball you can make several mistakes and still get lucky and beat Efren 9-0 !
IMHO, if some disclipine like 8-ball is usually played without errors or very few of them, it tells me it's easier than another disclipine which might have several errors like 9-ball.
shinyballs said:
Damn, Shiny, that's good shooting.
Someone mentioned RevDave so I got out my latest BD and there was his picture on page 63. He won BOTH the 8-ball and 9-ball in Vegas, VNEA. Now, that's some kickass shooting!
David, are you here....what's your opinion on this subject, since you obviously know both games quite well?
Jeff Livingston
Jersey said:
How often do you run a 4 pack in 9 ball?
I think 8 ball and nine ball are about the same to the player at the table. Eight ball, however, is a much better equalizer as the weaker player does have a better chance of winning some games.
Efren At 8ball
I agree that pattern play, safety and breaking clusters are bigger factors in 8ball than 9ball. Efren, as well as any other player you could think of, has these skills in abundance. That is why he could dominate 8ball (4 world titles) in a way he could never do in 9ball.
I agree that pattern play, safety and breaking clusters are bigger factors in 8ball than 9ball. Efren, as well as any other player you could think of, has these skills in abundance. That is why he could dominate 8ball (4 world titles) in a way he could never do in 9ball.
Good point, Red Naxela, Efren's dominance in 8 ball, in and of itself, disproves Pete Lafond's notion that the game gives weaker players a greater chance to win. Efren can not only execute well, but also THINK well, and that is why we aren't going to see an 8 ball player like him in a long while. The above is also the very same reason he is now able to spot Cliff Joyner a ball in one pocket.RED NAXELA said:
lewdo26 said:
Good nine ball players play the layout. No difference in 8 or 9 ball. No such thing as a strong player running out too soon. They run out when the layout is there. If the pattern allows for breakouts (not blastouts) during the pattern then in both 9 ball and 8 ball a run out is appropriate.
lewdo26 said:
My point was that the player at the table would have the same ease or difficulty in both 9 ball and 8 ball. I am also stating that eight ball does help the weaker player have an advantage in that safeties are much easier played in 8 ball and shot making ability does not carry the same weight in 8 ball as it does in 9 ball.
How many times have you seen a weaker player in 8 ball take a wack at the balls during the game and the complete layout changes making whatever work the better player set in motion change. It happens. In 9 ball both players go after the same ball, not so in eight ball.