which purse structure do you like best?

[ShootingArts]

Just some curiosity. A pool hall is holding an event 200 miles away from you. Total entry fee including greens fee and with no other charges is $50. Which of these purse structures makes you more inclined to make the trip, or is the purse too small for you to drive 200 miles regardless of how it is structured?

(for the sake of this poll, no Calcutta or auction. Action a possibility)

Thanks,
Hu



(A)
$1250 first
$630 second
$300 third
$75 fourth
$50 fifth through twelfth

(B)
$800 first
$500 second
$300 third
$175 fourth
$125 fifth-sixth
$75 seventh-eighth
$65 ninth-twelfth
$55 thirteenth-sixteenth

(C)
I am not willing to drive 200 miles each way for either purse.

 

[ShootingArts]

pay deep or pile it all on top?

Which do you prefer?

Hu

 

[Skeezicks]

(A)
$1250 first
$630 second
$300 third
$75 fourth
$50 fifth through twelfth

(B)
$800 first
$500 second
$300 third
$175 fourth
$125 fifth-sixth
$75 seventh-eighth
$65 ninth-twelfth
$55 thirteenth-sixteenth

If you figure to take 3rd or better
Then choose A
Else choose B

As for me, I don't play pool.

 

[hilla_hilla]

How big is the field?

I would pay either 9-12 or 13-16 spots with 64 players and 17-24 or 25-32 spots with 128 players.

The better players will ALWAYS want you to pay more towards the top. As a tournament director, I usually look at the field and see how much local support I have (people may not like this) playing in the tournament and decide from there.

Hope this helps .

 

[ShootingArts]

that is actually the delimma

I based these numbers on a 64 person field which is pretty good for a tournament in this area with that low of a pay out.

My sample is smaller than I had hoped for but even so I find it a bit surprising. In other sports I competed in, auto racing, horse racing, shooting rifles and pistols, people seem happiest with the heavily top weighted purses. Of course there were some that wanted the purses so level that there was no reward for winning too.

I never went to a competition considering what the money was well back in the field. When I was cutting my teeth I figured I was just donating money I would take back later. Once I had my ducks in a row the idea was that I would place high enough most of the time to not sweat what the back markers got.

The dilemma is that if people are to travel, you have to put enough up top for it to be worth traveling for. I also feel that the last paying position should get their total entry fee back and at least a couple dollars more.

The issue is always the same, we need a little more money to pay out but I also feel that a tournament should be at least a break even deal for the people putting it on. Many in the field only come for tournaments so there is little chance of hooking them as customers.

Thanks for your post, it does help.

Hu

How big is the field?

I would pay either 9-12 or 13-16 spots with 64 players and 17-24 or 25-32 spots with 128 players.

The better players will ALWAYS want you to pay more towards the top. As a tournament director, I usually look at the field and see how much local support I have (people may not like this) playing in the tournament and decide from there.

Hope this helps .

 

[hilla_hilla]

For some reason (don't hate me for saying this) pool players don't like to spend $ where events are hosted. A lot of room owners would rather not have a tournament and make more $ off of the regular, daily, paying customer. Room's don't make a profit hosting tournaments (also dependent upon the rooms kitchen/bar) and IF they are lucky, they break even. Some rooms charge green fee's to help get their money back. I do know one room owner who will have one tournament a year and uses it as a tax ride off and doesn't charge green fee's.

Good players like the tournament to pay more torwards the top, but if the local players are the ones that are supporting the tournament AND the pool room I think it is fair to pay deeper into the field. It makes the local player more apt to play the following tournament if they happen to $cash$ (at least get their money back). At the same time, you do want to pay enough towards the top to bring players from other area's. It's a tough call and GOOD LUCK!

 

[Str8Ball9]

C.

then maybe B.

$50 for Entry and about $60 dollars there and back (~20mpg/$3 per Gallon) gotta clear $110 to make it worth your while. I'd take the money and play for small sets and save myself the driving hassle.

 

[Neil]

...........

 

[ShootingArts]

A more common sense mindset

Neil,

What you are saying is a more common sense and practical mindset however compare it to dirt trackers for example. In the late sixties or early seventies a promoter advertised an unheard of at the time $10,000 to win late model race. National advertising and over 200 racers converged from all over the country! A fantastic race and $10,000 was paid to the winner as advertised. Second place back got the same as a weekly show, I think $250 for second and maybe $150 or so for third. The dirt purses usually paid ten places or even twenty but dropped off so sharply that after the top 5-8 you didn't even get your entry fee back. Needless to say winning $250 or less all the traveling teams went deeply in the red except the winner. About 200 of them didn't see a penny from the purse.

There was a huge uproar for months. Magazines and papers were full of racers raising Cain about the scam. The next year the race was ran again. Full page ad's in the national and big regional publications with the full purse listed. $10,000 to win, $250 for second, etc. Over 300 cars showed up from all over the country. Nobody cared what second place paid.

As a competitor, that is pretty much my mindset. I expect to finish high, and if I don't I don't expect any cushion for my loss. Pay my dues this time and collect another day.

I don't think either mindset is wrong but people putting together events definitely need to know which one the majority of their players entering has.

Hu

I'm what they call a 'dark horse'. I'm subject to beat anybody, but not likey to win the whole shebang. So, I have to look at how far down it's paying to see if it's worth the trip. One thing I do hate, is to come in the money and not even get my entry fee back! That is just ridiculous to me.

The top guys all like it top heavy, but only 3 guys are getting it. You have to look at the rest of the people that showed up too. Most of the people there are trying to make some money. Not spend money. Those in the tournament that know they have no chance are usually using it for a lesson to learn, and to see where they stand in the pecking order. So they are trying to keep expenses down as much as possible.

 

[ShootingArts]

nailed it

You nailed the situation perfectly. The problem is that most of the rooms around here don't need the tax write off or the headaches and inevitable upset customers that always result when competition is involved. If the room can't at least break even or make a few dollars putting on a tournament I have a hard time trying to persuade them to hold one "for the good of the game." One pool room that opened recently near my shop was burned in his first big tournament or so. Last minute tournaments scheduled other places after the room had verified no conflicts within a reasonable area. The room owner paid as advertised but took a bath. The last time I talked to him he was counting the months left on his two year lease.

There is a new, I think franchise, pool hall opening in the area that may offer nine footers and a decent place to play. That will probably be the death knell of the independent place. I don't know if they plan any tournaments of any size. I just saw the sign and I don't think the tables are in yet.

The deal of competitors spending their money away from the pool hall even if not getting better quality food or drink is an issue for another thread but is definitely a factor in tournaments not being profitable.

Hu

For some reason (don't hate me for saying this) pool players don't like to spend $ where events are hosted. A lot of room owners would rather not have a tournament and make more $ off of the regular, daily, paying customer. Room's don't make a profit hosting tournaments (also dependent upon the rooms kitchen/bar) and IF they are lucky, they break even. Some rooms charge green fee's to help get their money back. I do know one room owner who will have one tournament a year and uses it as a tax ride off and doesn't charge green fee's.

Good players like the tournament to pay more torwards the top, but if the local players are the ones that are supporting the tournament AND the pool room I think it is fair to pay deeper into the field. It makes the local player more apt to play the following tournament if they happen to $cash$ (at least get their money back). At the same time, you do want to pay enough towards the top to bring players from other area's. It's a tough call and GOOD LUCK!

 

[ShootingArts]

Thanks to All

Thanks to those who posted and those who voted. I found the votes very interesting. If the numbers hold true for a larger sampling it seems that the primary reason most people enter a tourney isn't to win the event or to make a substantial profit. Nothing wrong with that but it does make me have to rethink how I would structure an event if I ever promoted one.

There is an idea that I have been playing with for awhile, it may reach fruition or more likely will just remain one more hare brained idea that never becomes reality. A small deal at best, not a new pro tour or the salvation of pool. Just something to keep me entertained.

Hu