Which threads is used..UNF,UNC,Whitworth?

[Newton]

For me which is in the "metric" world, it's not to easy to maneuver in you're world of inches.

I'm looking for some Taps to be able to make threads. The machine shop do however has a large selection so I was just wondering, is a 5/16 or a 3/8 any of the mentioned thread types - UNF,UNC or Whitworth?

A pretty basic question but kind of important to get right...
I know Atlas have Taps but I don't see the point in importing all the way from US if it's available locally.

N

 

[Cue Crazy]

I have 5/16-18 & 3/8-16 in NC. Those 2 are pretty easy to find, the others you need would be 5/16-14 & 3/8-10, and that's only the very basic sizes in cuework, but those last 2 You may find are non standard taps. Also for some threading operations You need longer, reduced shank taps, Those are sometimes hard to find, even in the most common thread patterns. Most of My long taps were purchased from atlas, or were specific for cuework. I have a super long 3/8-16 for deep holes like weight bolts, and even though the thread pattern is easier to find then others, It was hard to find that long, so even that tap was purchased from them.

Their piloted taps are special ground also, but are well worth the money IMO, makes tapping straight threads alot easier.

You could always have some made, but I'm sure It would cost much more per tap, then Buying them from someone has that has already made the investment in bulk.

I only use a few taps that weren't specific to cue work.

Greg

 

[Newton]

I have 5/16-18 & 3/8-16 in NC. Those 2 are pretty easy to find, the others you need would be 5/16-14 & 3/8-10, and that's only the very basic sizes in cuework, but those last 2 You may find are non standard taps. Also for some threading operations You need longer, reduced shank taps, Those are sometimes hard to find, even in the most common thread patterns. Most of My long taps were purchased from atlas, or were specific for cuework. I have a super long 3/8-16 for deep holes like weight bolts, and even though the thread pattern is easier to find then others, It was hard to find that long, so even that tap was purchased from them.

Their piloted taps are special ground also, but are well worth the money IMO, makes tapping straight threads alot easier.

You could always have some made, but I'm sure It would cost much more per tap, then Buying them from someone has that has already made the investment in bulk.

I only use a few taps that weren't specific to cue work.

Greg

Thanks a bunch Greg.

I guess you mean UNC when you say NC. I'll have a closer look on the one's I have available over here. It was a large selection so I was pretty lost in the amount of different "numbers".. I guess I just buy one and thread some kind of wood to see if it fits. But then I would look at UNC

Thanks
N

 

[Cue Crazy]

I'm not an expert on the differences, just know that to an extent they are interchangable.

Here's something I found that explains the difference compared to metric threads.


UNC- Unified Coarse Thread.

The old definition NC is comparable with the metric thread. The new term UNC is comparable with the ISO metric thread. NC and UNC threads are interchangable, in an analogous manner like the metric and ISO metric thread.


Greg

BTW in case You don't already know the "C" stands for course thread, and the "F" stands for fine.

Hope this helps

 

[KJ Cues]

See if you can find a 5/16 x 18, 3/8 x 16 & 7/16 x 14. These are all std. thrd. All the other taps you'll need are special thread and will need to be bought or made.

 

[Cue Crazy]

See if you can find a 5/16 x 18, 3/8 x 16 & 7/16 x 14. These are all std. thrd. All the other taps you'll need are special thread and will need to be bought or made.

Thanks, Somehow I forgot to mention the one for the inserts

I still bought both My 7/16-14 & 7/16-20 from them too though. When I bought mine they were considerably cheaper then the other special thread taps anyway.

 

[pdcue]

For me which is in the "metric" world, it's not to easy to maneuver in you're world of inches.

I'm looking for some Taps to be able to make threads. The machine shop do however has a large selection so I was just wondering, is a 5/16 or a 3/8 any of the mentioned thread types - UNF,UNC or Whitworth?

A pretty basic question but kind of important to get right...
I know Atlas have Taps but I don't see the point in importing all the way from US if it's available locally.

N

The ONLY standard thread used for Joint pins is UNC 5/16 - 18,
and it is much less used than the non-standard 5/16 - 14.

The larger 3/8 pins, that connect into threads cut into the wood,
are all non-standard - more coarse. ie fewer TPI<threads per inch> -
they are not available thru normal industrial channels because they
are so specilaized.

IMHO - it is extremely unlikely your local machine shop will have
anything even close.

The cost of making one tap is usually prohibitive.

Dale Pierce

 

[Newton]

I have now looked in the catalog from the company and I'm not sure if I've got this right.


Reading the 3/8 UNC, it has the following "values":
TPI= 16
Shaft Diameter=10mm
Length of "threads" = 18mm
Total length 80mm
Diameter of threading part:9,525mm

The company that I'm looking at can supply taps from these http://www.guhring.com/tap_lit.shtml

They have UNC 5/16x18, 5/16x24, 3/8x16, 3/8x24, 7/16x14, 7/16x20

I guess I would be safe with these then ?

N

 

[Newton]

The ONLY standard thread used for Joint pins is UNC 5/16 - 18,
and it is much less used than the non-standard 5/16 - 14.

The larger 3/8 pins, that connect into threads cut into the wood,
are all non-standard - more coarse. ie fewer TPI<threads per inch> -
they are not available thru normal industrial channels because they
are so specilaized.

IMHO - it is extremely unlikely your local machine shop will have
anything even close.

The cost of making one tap is usually prohibitive.

Dalr Pierce

So a UNC 3/8 is not coarse enough compared to my wood to wood 3/8 thread I have on my cue then ? So the UNC ones I just found is not the same as these http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=129&ITEM_ID=5824

For me this sounds really horrible, why in the world do some one flick on a basic UNC 3/8 to make it so odd? Q makers do not sell tappers and if I was making cues I would for sure make a joint which made my customers able to choose from a selection of shafts. Making a Q with for instance a 8mm metric joint would be in my eyes stupid, since every shaft for this cue would need to be custom made/tapped. That's not good in my eyes...

N

 

[iusedtoberich]

You are wasting your time Just buy the taps from Atlas. As others have mentioned, the ONLY "standard metalworking" thread used on joint pins is 5/16-18. ALL the others are bastard threads made specifically for cuemaking. Bastard with respect to threads means non-standard. You won't find them in any metalworking catalog. You have to have them custom made. Even if shipping costs you $100 from Atlas to your country, you will still be way ahead than having a shop custom make you even just one tap. This is reality.

Atlas has many things that will save you time and money. Why don't you just look carefully through their catalog and buy everything you think you need in one shot. Then you only pay shipping once.

Sorry if I sound harsh but Atlas or another cue specific supplier is really your best bet, by far.

Good luck.

 

[Newton]

I have looked at Atlas for a long time and this was just to get started. I definitely need some extra stuff from them so I guess I end up ordering everything in one "bastard" shipping then

Did not know that the threads was even odder than regular inches, but then I learned something new.

Thanks

N

 

[DaveK]

Did not know that the threads was even odder than regular inches, but then I learned something new.

The world of threads is a lot bigger than simple machine screw / bolt threads that most are used to seeing, as you are discovering. Here's an odd one for you, the spindle nose on my lathe is 45mm x 8tpi (that's 8 Threads Per Inch) ! Try and find a tap for that one

Good luck with your efforts Newton.

Dave

 

[KJ Cues]

The ONLY standard thread used for Joint pins is UNC 5/16 - 18,
and it is much less used than the non-standard 5/16 - 14.

The larger 3/8 pins, that connect into threads cut into the wood,
are all non-standard - more coarse. ie fewer TPI<threads per inch> -
they are not available thru normal industrial channels because they
are so specilaized.

IMHO - it is extremely unlikely your local machine shop will have
anything even close.

The cost of making one tap is usually prohibitive.

Dale Pierce

Dale,
The 5/16 x 18, 3/8 x 16 & 7/16 x 14 are all taps that are used in cue building/repair. If the guy can get them for cheap or even free where he's at, why shouldn't he?

I use the 3/8 x16 for McD. QR inserts and for my 'A' joint as well as wght. bolts. He'll certainly need the 7/16 x 14 for inserts. The 7/16 x 20 for Uni-Loc inserts. These are all std. and can be had cheap.

A competent machinist can make a special thrd. tap in less than an hour. That includes heat-treat if so desired. Though not necessary because all we're tapping is wood or maybe phenolic. The cost is not prohibitive if all you've got invested is maybe $3 in mtrls. & an hour of your time.

I made all of my 1st generation CueTec taps and still have them today. They worked very well and allowed me to do jobs that most others had to turn away. My 2nd generation of CueTec taps are even sweeter and priced less than Atlas' spl. taps. Ingenuity will take you pretty far and allow you to get the job done.

 

[Newton]

Dale,
The 5/16 x 18, 3/8 x 16 & 7/16 x 14 are all taps that are used in cue building/repair. If the guy can get them for cheap or even free where he's at, why shouldn't he?

I use the 3/8 x16 for McD. QR inserts and for my 'A' joint as well as wght. bolts. He'll certainly need the 7/16 x 14 for inserts. The 7/16 x 20 for Uni-Loc inserts. These are all std. and can be had cheap.

A competent machinist can make a special thrd. tap in less than an hour. That includes heat-treat if so desired. Though not necessary because all we're tapping is wood or maybe phenolic. The cost is not prohibitive if all you've got invested is maybe $3 in mtrls. & an hour of your time.

I made all of my 1st generation CueTec taps and still have them today. They worked very well and allowed me to do jobs that most others had to turn away. My 2nd generation of CueTec taps are even sweeter and priced less than Atlas' spl. taps. Ingenuity will take you pretty far and allow you to get the job done.

Now I'm totally lost... Once and for all, CAN I use the stock ones KJ mentioned here ? In case, I can get them much cheaper locally than what Atlas charges.

General idea is to be able to make threads for shafts where the "stock" sizes is of interest together with potential inserts. When I get nerves to make a cue I would need the others for inserts, A joint and shaft joint.

I have a lathe and the thought of making my own has struck me since it's just wood I plan to use them for, but I have to check if the lath support all the oddball threads.

All of you have helped med in one or another way, which is appreciated.

I do however not understand why cuemakers make so strange threads that hardly anyone can supply a shaft.... A local player has a Longoni which again has the funniest threads around. He can't buy a normal shaft from anyone... Which for me would ended in selling the cue immediately and buy something half "normal" ...

Kent

 

[DaveK]

A competent machinist can make a special thrd. tap in less than an hour. That includes heat-treat if so desired. Though not necessary because all we're tapping is wood or maybe phenolic. The cost is not prohibitive if all you've got invested is maybe $3 in mtrls. & an hour of your time.

tap tap tap (snicker snicker snicker)

I might also suggest that one can make a tap for wood from an existing pin, just cut in the flutes on the mill with a small ball-nose endmill and taper down the starting threads.

Dave

 

[KJ Cues]

I do however not understand why cuemakers make so strange threads that hardly anyone can supply a shaft.... A local player has a Longoni which again has the funniest threads around. He can't buy a normal shaft from anyone... Which for me would ended in selling the cue immediately and buy something half "normal" ...

Kent

"Out of the mouths of babes".

I might also suggest that one can make a tap for wood from an existing pin, just cut in the flutes on the mill with a small ball-nose endmill and taper down the starting threads.

Dave

Yes that will work and get you by in a pinch but bare in mind that in most cases the pin is a few thou. undersize. Consider also that a typical tap of size is a few thou. oversize. That's a pretty tight hole. If you're cleaver enough to tweak the hole with an undersized tap, you're good to go.

 

[DaveK]

Yes that will work and get you by in a pinch but bare in mind that in most cases the pin is a few thou. undersize. Consider also that a typical tap of size is a few thou. oversize. That's a pretty tight hole. If you're cleaver enough to tweak the hole with an undersized tap, you're good to go.

Good point, it would end up pretty tight with an undersized major diameter.

Dave