Who Do You Throw

N

NittiFan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
O.K. - I Captain both APA 8-Ball and 9-Ball teams. For uninitiated at the beginning of every match the captains of the teams flip a coin to see who will "throw out" the first player. I almost always make the other Captain throw, unless there are unusual circumstances, someone has to play to leave early, etc. We play five matches therefore the other team must elect three players and I only elect two players. I feel this gives me a small edge on who will play who in the match.

Now the question I would like to ponder...Do any of you have a specific stratedgy for how you throw these matches?

Normally I try to match up the Skill Levels. In other words, I play my "5" on their "5", my "2" on their "2". In addition I try to play my lower numbers early in the match and save the gunners for later. Unless the other team throws the "7" then I match-up. If I loose the flip and have to throw first I always throw the lowest number available.

There are Captains I play against that are proponents of the opposite system. They will play their lower skill level players on the higher skill level players. They have a modocum of success with this, as any SL8 in 9-ball playing a SL1 can atest. I just think it is alittle manipulative.

How do you guys do it?

Thanks,
Mike
 
I have never played APA so I am not entirely sure how the system works. In any case I would tend to play the most stable players at the end. If a match gets tight at the end it is nice to have the players with solid nerves, since it can be easy to get nervous. This may or may not be your highest ranking players.
 
Normally, I let the other captain put up first. This allows me to get the matches I want in 3 of the 5 matches. Usually, I try to keep my races close, but I have thrown a 1 up against a 7 or 8 in the last match in 9 ball. In a 1-8 matchup, there are a total of 79 points to be scored to get a winner. That's 8 games, and my 1 only needs to average slightly less than 2 points per game to win. I would rather put up a 1 in this case than a 4 or 5. But if I have a 7 available, I may go that way.

The only time I change strategy is in the play-offs. Since the match is over once one team hits 51, I will take the first opportunity to play my stronger players and try to force the other team to come from behind.

A lot depends on how both team rosters compare.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Normally, I let the other captain put up first. This allows me to get the matches I want in 3 of the 5 matches. Usually, I try to keep my races close, but I have thrown a 1 up against a 7 or 8 in the last match in 9 ball. In a 1-8 matchup, there are a total of 79 points to be scored to get a winner. That's 8 games, and my 1 only needs to average slightly less than 2 points per game to win. I would rather put up a 1 in this case than a 4 or 5. But if I have a 7 available, I may go that way.

The only time I change strategy is in the play-offs. Since the match is over once one team hits 51, I will take the first opportunity to play my stronger players and try to force the other team to come from behind.

A lot depends on how both team rosters compare.

Steve
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Play offs are alittle different, but, I have also been bitten in the a$$ throwing the big-uns first. We won the first two matches and had a commanding lead in the third, 4 to zip in a race to five, (8-Ball, by the way), the opponent came back and forced the fourth match and all I had left were the two lower numbers, too much pressure on them, we lost.

I have also thrown my "1" on an "8" in play-offs, but not in normal league, that's where I feel these other guys are just messing around.

Mike
 
I've been team captain for APA 8 ball a year and a half or so.

I also try to get even races for the most part.

A SL2 or SL3 vs an SL6 or SL7 has about a 20% win ratio. Not good.

Also, our team gets blasted on 9'ers. We are normally very fortunate to get two wins on a league night.

I think over time, it really helps to know your team, and the other teams players to get a edge.

Sometimes, you don't want to match up your SL4 who just moved up with a teams SL5 who just dropped down a SL. But you have to know the players on both teams!
 
Gregg said:
I've been team captain for APA 8 ball a year and a half or so.

I also try to get even races for the most part.

A SL2 or SL3 vs an SL6 or SL7 has about a 20% win ratio. Not good.

Also, our team gets blasted on 9'ers. We are normally very fortunate to get two wins on a league night.

I think over time, it really helps to know your team, and the other teams players to get a edge.

Sometimes, you don't want to match up your SL4 who just moved up with a teams SL5 who just dropped down a SL. But you have to know the players on both teams!
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True, but, sometimes, as in the case of new or out-of-town teams, you do not know the players that well. We have about 32 teams in the 8-ball league and 24 teams in the 9-ball, it is not that hard to remember who is who in the zoo. I agree, I have my own personal opponents I like to play, as well as opponents I do not like to play. I just feel, in the long run, matching up is preferable.

Mike
 
NittiFan said:
True, but, sometimes, as in the case of new or out-of-town teams, you do not know the players that well. We have about 32 teams in the 8-ball league and 24 teams in the 9-ball, it is not that hard to remember who is who in the zoo. I agree, I have my own personal opponents I like to play, as well as opponents I do not like to play. I just feel, in the long run, matching up is preferable.

Mike
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Wow that's a few big leages. We normally top out at 16 teams.
 
Gregg said:
Wow that's a few big leages. We normally top out at 16 teams.
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This is a down time for here 2 or 3 years ago we had two divisions of 16 team "house leagues", and an 8 team division of "Bar/travel league" in 8-ball and three 16 team divisions in 9-ball. This is in two pretty good size pool rooms and 8 to 9 bars in town.

Mike
 
I choose to throw first!

I like to throw my player first. In real life there's always that person who "has" to leave early. That and the fact that if the other team is throwing out their player in the 4th match, you can often tell who will be staying to play 5th. It was/is definitely a strategy that works for my area!
 
NittiFan said:
This is a down time for here 2 or 3 years ago we had two divisions of 16 team "house leagues", and an 8 team division of "Bar/travel league" in 8-ball and three 16 team divisions in 9-ball. This is in two pretty good size pool rooms and 8 to 9 bars in town.

Mike
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It's not like there is anything else to do in Michigan in the winter:D Unless of course you bowl:eek: :D
 
During normal league night, I’ll try to match up by skill level and knowledge (gut feeling) for each player. But playoffs or other *bigger* events, I’ll try to throw first with a strong 4 or 5. And, by throwing first you control the fourth and fifth match ups, if it comes to that.

This is for 8 ball, I’m not familiar with APA 9-ball ball count and scoring.

Rick
 
hustlefinger said:
During normal league night, I’ll try to match up by skill level and knowledge (gut feeling) for each player. But playoffs or other *bigger* events, I’ll try to throw first with a strong 4 or 5. And, by throwing first you control the fourth and fifth match ups, if it comes to that.

This is for 8 ball, I’m not familiar with APA 9-ball ball count and scoring.

Rick
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I agree with this suggestion.
It definitely pays to watch, listen and learn from your team if they have a preference spot to shoot in as it matters and if they can stay focused to the match if they are needed at the end instead of the beginning. I hate when players show up, beg to shot first so they can leave, don't warm up, shot like crap and get the team off to a bad start. SELFISH PLAY. Sometimes your alternate has a better chance in that situation. I always try to keep a ringer for the last 2 matches if it comes down to a tie breaker. Been on teams when the captain will try to win 3 and out with strong players only to find out we are then hill hill with weak players remaining that don't understand pressure matches.

ez
 
We seem to have a strange league. If your team is together for 3 seasons in a row, you are guaranteed a spot in one of the city playoffs(there are 3 or 4 I think). So winning a season has become less important to us as a team. Our team is also struggling to keep our handicaps down so we can actually field a team. We have taken the approach that we match up to lose without telling my players. I will put them against someone that should beat them preatty good. Some might call this a form of dumping but it cant be if the captain is the only one that knows his player is supposed to lose. An sl7 friend of mine has found that an sl4 is prob the toughest opponent for himas they need to win 2 games to his 5. Also the sl4 level seems to have the widest range of skill compared to the other levels. During a normal season we let the other team throw 1st, but are going to try the other option so we are more familiar with it come playoff time.
 
Ahhhhh i love having this debate with guys who play APA8ball lol.

On the wednesday league I am on there are a couple teams who will let you throw up first, when they win the toss lol. I still havent figured it out. But I think, they feel they can match up against my team evenly.

On this league thier is only two guys who happen to be on seperate teams who are basically locks to win thier match against anyone. When playing against either of these teams i take a different aproach because if I play the #'s wrong they will always put themselve up against either Me or one of the other two guys on my team who are SL 6's.

But generally I'll play either one of our low #'s first 4 or under.

If its crunch time, I'll play my SL 6, who is my semi big gun and can 90% of the time beat everyone in the league except the other two guys mention'd. I'd then see who the other team puts up, and counter that, with a SL2 or whatever it maybe.

The line up I love playing goes like this if i win the coin toss.

Match 1-SL 6 he's the strongest player on my team
Match 2-SL 2 if the other team puts up a 6 or 7 if not, I'd put up my SL 4 shes damn good under pressure
Match 3- depending on what happens in match 2, I'll put up my SL4 that way if the other team has a 7 to put up its a tough match.
Match 4- it all depends on who wins the toss, but generally its a SL2 or 3 vs a 7
Match 5- either me or my other sl 6.

But it all depends on the team we are playing against and who they have on the team.
 
I don't have any real big guns on my teams. My 8th man on Tuesday is a very good sl6, but I can only count on him being there if I'm short handed. He'll get his 4 plays in, and if we get a playoff, he'll be there. The other "gun" I have is an sl5 has lost every match he's played for me this session. He's played nothing but sl5's and sl6's. I'm going to shoot him against a good 4 next Tuesday to try and get him back on track.
On Monday night I only have sl3's and sl4's so it's all gut feeling on who is going to do better against who. I've got an sl3 who's a good player but a slow starter. I'll throw him to a 5 or 6 because he needs to be able to get beat up a bit before he gets his feet under him. I've got another 3 who is a notorious choker. Plays great, but can't close. I try to play him early and against other players who I know have the same problem. Sometimes it makes a marathon match, but the results are usually worth it.
For me presonally, it doesn't matter who I shoot, whether I'm first or last, or what the race is. I'm winning more than 50% of the time (4-3 this session both nights). I got shutout last Tuesday 4-0, which was my only poor showing. I couldn't do anything right. My mental game just wasn't there. I was seeing the shots, just unable to execute. The other losses have all gone to the rubber match, with the most bitter coming at the hands of an sl3 (:rolleyes: ). The match went 7 innings. I won the lag and first game in 4, he took the second in 2, and broke and ran the third and final game. I just stood there and watched this "below average player" (sl4 is average men's handicap at 69% of players being sl4) break and run and thought I'd just better breakdown my cue and leave. I couldn't though, because it was the first match of the night, I'm the captain, and I had to stay and watch my 6, 5, and 2 other 4's lose...

McCue Banger McCue
 
On regular league nights I will let the other team put up first, but in a tournament format I will put up first. as for matching up player's it all depends on weather it's weekly league play or tournament format. at tourney time ideally I want my 2 to play their best player! because who's a 2 gonna beat? Even against another 2 it's just a crap shoot.
 
rlw said:
On regular league nights I will let the other team put up first, but in a tournament format I will put up first. as for matching up player's it all depends on weather it's weekly league play or tournament format. at tourney time ideally I want my 2 to play their best player! because who's a 2 gonna beat? Even against another 2 it's just a crap shoot.
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And that's how the leage wants it, every match, every time.
 
Thanks you guys, you have changed my mind, alittle, I did throw the "2" on the "7" last night. She lost, but, she always loses! And this "7" almost always wins! Killed two birds with one loss.

Mike
 
Like some others mentioned here, I'm a big fan of putting up first. Controlling the 4th and 5th match is huge in a race to 3 situation.

During the regular season, when you know you're playing all 5, it's not as important. In the playoffs, however, I always want to put up first.

I've had great success with this, although it does require having a strong 4 or 5 on your roster that your comfortable throwing up there blind. The idea is to get someone up there that has a better than average chance to win no matter who the opponent throws up there. Most teams won't come out with a 6 or 7 on a 4 that early in the match. You can almost guarantee getting your leadoff guy a good matchup.
 
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