Who uses the 90/90 aiming system?
- Thread starter Mikjary
- Start date
Oh, OK. I misunderstood "in line with".
Then your post isn't a clear example of what I said (although I still think it's true of these pivot systems).
pj
chgo
John,
Your rotation in the air sounds like Stan Shuffett's Pro One where the pivot is done coming into the shot depending on the cut. I took lessons from Stan in 2010 and learned CTE with an open mind. CTE works but is it better than natural aiming? (Don't want to open that Panora's box)
I don't know about other systems such as 90/90 because I haven't tried working with them. I think it depends on the player and if an aiming system works for them then that's great. Personally, if I can keep my eye on the cue ball making contact with the object ball then my shot making is solid.
A downside to some of these aiming systems is the complex nature and its' difficulty to communicate by it's proponents. It is works for you great, if not experience is still a good teacher.
Your rotation in the air sounds like Stan Shuffett's Pro One where the pivot is done coming into the shot depending on the cut. I took lessons from Stan in 2010 and learned CTE with an open mind. CTE works but is it better than natural aiming? (Don't want to open that Panora's box)
I don't know about other systems such as 90/90 because I haven't tried working with them. I think it depends on the player and if an aiming system works for them then that's great. Personally, if I can keep my eye on the cue ball making contact with the object ball then my shot making is solid.
A downside to some of these aiming systems is the complex nature and its' difficulty to communicate by it's proponents. It is works for you great, if not experience is still a good teacher.
90/90
Aiming is an extremely subjective area in that what one person finds easy another may not. Ive been real careful not to delve into other systems to keep from prejudicing what I was working with so I was sure that my things were completely original but..... A friend handed me a 90/90 dvd and book and asked that I look it over and I did.
I was hesitant at first and just opened the book and looked it over superimposing what I thought I knew about it and then took that much to the pool room. What I found out was that I made my first several shots with it using the 90/90 ending perspective without doing the pivot. In fact later that evening I played some one pocket with a guy and I put him away pretty good and some of those shots were the kind where if you don't make them you sell out the situation but I was in the shape I sort of had to.
I learned a lot about pivot systems later on and I think were I using a pivot system to teach someone that it would likely be 90/90 because its pretty easy to learn. It was an interesting trip for me to take and I have enjoyed it very much.
Aiming is an extremely subjective area in that what one person finds easy another may not. Ive been real careful not to delve into other systems to keep from prejudicing what I was working with so I was sure that my things were completely original but..... A friend handed me a 90/90 dvd and book and asked that I look it over and I did.
I was hesitant at first and just opened the book and looked it over superimposing what I thought I knew about it and then took that much to the pool room. What I found out was that I made my first several shots with it using the 90/90 ending perspective without doing the pivot. In fact later that evening I played some one pocket with a guy and I put him away pretty good and some of those shots were the kind where if you don't make them you sell out the situation but I was in the shape I sort of had to.
I learned a lot about pivot systems later on and I think were I using a pivot system to teach someone that it would likely be 90/90 because its pretty easy to learn. It was an interesting trip for me to take and I have enjoyed it very much.
I learned it from Ron. I use it on all shots. If anyone wants to learn it from me I play out of the Sandcastle billiards, home of accu stats arena.
I have tried to learn other systems. I like to lean what is out there. It believe it is much easier to lean than cte. You use 90-90 on most shots. It is only when there is an extreme cut or the balls are close together that you use 90-center or 90-90 reverse.
Keep in mind that when using the system you look like you may be using bhe. You are not swiveling your backhand. You are swiveling you hips so your whole body is moving.
I have tried to learn other systems. I like to lean what is out there. It believe it is much easier to lean than cte. You use 90-90 on most shots. It is only when there is an extreme cut or the balls are close together that you use 90-center or 90-90 reverse.
Keep in mind that when using the system you look like you may be using bhe. You are not swiveling your backhand. You are swiveling you hips so your whole body is moving.
I use it a lot for the shots where I know it brings me to the shot line. When I have doubt I use CTE to align myself to the shot.
I find that 90/90 is a quick way to aim for a lot of shots. It just resonates with my style of play which is fairly quick.
Hope you don't mind me bringing up your thread from waaay back.
A few days ago I was reading a post from a player that has been very successful using this system. So I thought, what the heck, I'll take a look at it. So off I went scouring the Internet looking for information on 90/90. There is not much, but their is enough to keep you looking further and practicing.
I have a home table, 4.5 x 9.0. My first time at trying this, I set an OB in the center of the table and the QB in line with the OB in the kitchen.
From a standing position I adjusted until my vision was centered on the ETE. I didn't care for doing the 1/2 ball pivot while down so I do it in the air, seems more natural to me. Pulled back the stick and shot the shot. When the OB went flying into the corner pocket you could have knocked me over with a feather. I stood their for a minute thinking WTH just happened. So I started shooting more and more shots using 90/90 from everywhere.
All I'm going to say here is, it works and works well. The only thing I would caution folks about is, make absolutely sure you have solid fundamentals and can deliver the cue in a straight line before attempting (or any system for that matter) this system.
I would like to know, how does this system work. The way I pivot into the shot is the only thing I can think of why the system works.
There is information available on YT. Cleary did a nice write-up with illustrations in PDF that is available on Dr. Dave's site.
I'm impressed. Now I have 3 aiming systems available for pocketing and banking. I need to find a bigger tool box.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks (This topic should probably be moved to the "Aiming" section.)
John
John this was my first impression with Hal's methods and to this day it continues to amaze me that I can use these BALL to BALL aiming methods and make shots that are "hard" from the shooter's perspective. Last night I faced a reverse cut that I woul estimate was around 40 degrees and I needed to hold the cueball lower than the side pocket. I simply used CTE (could have used 90/Center) to aim it and pulled the trigger focusing on cue ball speed without really "knowing" that the shot line was right.
When those shots come up I still enjoy the feeling of satisfaction that comes with having some extra tools to use to get the job done. Before learning 90/90 and CTE I would have been either guessing or trying some kind of estimation to a spot on a line and worried about the aim which then would have negatively impacted the shot and position.
And for one pocket, with good fundamentals (which I still don't have) these methods are the NUTS for figuring banks that truly put the object ball in the threat zone. 90/90 banking and CTE banking are deadly when employed correctly.
All aiming systems really do is help you get aligned in such a way as to help you put the ball in the pocket. Does it really matter what method each individual uses? It seems to me that it shouldn't matter if they use 90/90, CTE, ghost ball, or any other method as long as it gets them in line to make the shot. If you can get from point A to point B by several different paths I would hesitate to call any of them wrong, just different.
Really?
Seriously?
Just so you know. I do use your visualization system on all shots and to double check the 90/90 shots. :smile:
Thanks for the post.
John
...pros and other various questionable teachers make more $$$ by selling books,DVDs etc.
...pros and other various questionable teachers make more $$$ by selling books,DVDs etc.
And you feel that all knowledge should be free? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
And you feel that all knowledge should be free? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
And that's what you understood from my post?:wink:
Nice
I intend to try some of the same when I get a chance to play with it some more and try it with the pivots. I find I don't need them. I am finding what I suspected all along in that my system fits well where they leave off. Its going to be interesting to see how that works out..
I intend to try some of the same when I get a chance to play with it some more and try it with the pivots. I find I don't need them. I am finding what I suspected all along in that my system fits well where they leave off. Its going to be interesting to see how that works out..
To be clear, I haven't called any systems "wrong" - I've just said the descriptions of how they work are often non-factual and wishful. That might not matter to those who already use them (although it might matter to some of them too), but it could matter a lot to somebody trying to decide which is best for them - and it's a simple matter of truth.
pj
chgo
Sure cant argue with this statement.
Ya have to find out what works for you and there is certainly nothing wrong with having more than one way of accomplishing the same objective.
If your an instructor, you have to be able to suggest a starting point to a student that they will understand and feel comfortable with trying. If their eyes start to cloud over you know you have to find a new and easier approach to teaching the same thing.
Thanks for posting.
John
Here you have pictures and explanations of how the original 90/90 system should be done, by Ron Vitello:
http://9090aiming.com/page3/index.html
http://9090aiming.com/page3/index.html
The simple matter of truth is if somebody is trying to decide what is best for them, they should forget about ANALyzing various aspects prior to performing each visual and manual step as taught by the creator of the system and ingraining it until the steps can be done without thinking about anything. This is done on the pool table with balls, pockets, and cues. Not charts, graphs, or negative attitudes. It does take time and effort, something many pool players are not willing to put forth.
Those who say the descriptions of how they work being nonfactual and wishful are being nonfactual and shouldn't be attempting to make decisions for others, especially when they can't or haven't learned how to perform the visual and manual steps themselves. And this applies to everything pool related not just a particular aiming system that keeps coming under attack by "certain" individuals.
:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2: