Who would you bet the Cheese on? Jose vs. Efren!!

(IMO) - There Is No Need To..................

RoadAgent said:
And the neighbors farm too..... If you lost it was a dump...
Click to expand...

(IMO) - There Is No Need To bring up the possibility or mention of anything about these two great players except their exceptional ability and talent.
IF YOU WIN OR LOSE - You just happened to bet on the wrong guy that day.
It's like the Super Bowl - Just because you win or lose - You still have a 50/50 chance of picking the right side.
And I personally believe these particular two players have too much pride (and too much at steak) to entertain anything otherwise,
Don't ever forget about Efren's recent eye surgery - It will make a huge difference from now on. And he started at the top.

(JMO) - TY & GL, OHB
 
Last edited:
Jose's claim of beating Efren for the cash in the Philippines is his fish tale.
I've been told by people who used to stake both players, Efren beat Jose on rotation before Efren even turned 21. Jose was spotting him 71-49 but did not have to. Jose, due to his pride would not give up the spot.
Jose always mentions Efren and Busta have never beat him in the finals of a huge tournament here. Problem is Jose has been in the finals in nearly half the time as Efren. I asked Jose one time who eliminated him in the 1997 US Open. He didn't like answering that question.
They were playing against each other in the finals at Hollywood Billiards a couple of years ago (9 ball). A lot of brave people wanted to bet on Efren (sigh), I took all the bets and then watched Parica torture him. Parica was ahead about 9-2 in a race to 13 and all of these brave betters (sigh) were coming up to me and asking to buy out at a discount. Parica ended up winning 13-3 I believe. Either one of them could win on any given day in 9 ball, 1 pocket, rotation, or 8 ball but Efren is probably a slight favorite in any of these games.


I remember that Wayne. Efren and Alex went across the street to have dinner at a Thai restaurant there. Efren had a few drinks as well. Jose came off the losers' side to get to the finals. I told Alex, Efren was meat. He was cold and had a full stomach while Jose got on dead punch. I did not bet against Efren b/c I just don't like betting against him ( he gave me a trophy once and Alex is a very good friend of mine ).
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM
for those of you who were not in the philippines in the early eighties
here is the real score

just prior to parica's invasion of the USA
they have a sort of color of money match set up between the two for three days i think in hte phil.

well parica lost, and his title as king of philippine pool

no more debate on this efren is better on a one-on -one duel
 
When Accu-stats used to do their statistics on nine ball matches and compute averages, Efren would average higher than Jose. One commentator said that everyone thought that Jose and Efren were about even, but after they kept track of a number of matches, Efren was clearly better if you went by the computed averages.

Jose has won a lot of tourneys but Efren has won the biggest $$ tourneys, consistently, the last couple of years.

When Jose won the Roanoke One Pocket in 1995, I don't think even Efren would of beat him, though. Jose won 15 out of 16 games his last three matches and was playing as good as anyone can play.

I still think Efren is the favorite in any of the games, but when Jose is playing good, he can compete with anyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM
i believe efren is the slight overall favorite (but not by very much at all). however, my gut feeling is.... put up like 500K on the line and play a long race (or ahead) with no breaks (ie just play strait through), and parica would take it. to add one more thing, i bet if something like this were to materialize, efren wouldn't want to play parica, but parica would be more than willing. that is pure opinion however, and i could be way off about that.
 
tfdr said:
for those of you who were not in the philippines in the early eighties
here is the real score

just prior to parica's invasion of the USA
they have a sort of color of money match set up between the two for three days i think in hte phil.

well parica lost, and his title as king of philippine pool

no more debate on this efren is better on a one-on -one duel
Click to expand...
That was 20+ years ago, a lot can change in that period of time (heck, I could spot Corey the orange crush back then...course he was only 5, but..). Until someone comes up with a more persuasive argument than Jay Helfert made on this subject in another thread (in which he made a very solid case that Jose is the best all-around player), I think there is most definitely a valid debate.
 
They wouldn't match up because both are scared shitless of one another, is my guess! LOL!

And with good reason!:eek:
 
Looking for Jay's Comments

jnav447 said:
That was 20+ years ago, a lot can change in that period of time (heck, I could spot Corey the orange crush back then...course he was only 5, but..). Until someone comes up with a more persuasive argument than Jay Helfert made on this subject in another thread (in which he made a very solid case that Jose is the best all-around player), I think there is most definitely a valid debate.
Click to expand...


Hi, I couldn't find those posts from Jay. What thread was it under? Thanks

Rob
 
jay's nice parica efren post....

cuesrus said:
Hi, I couldn't find those posts from Jay. What thread was it under? Thanks

Rob
Click to expand...

i love that post of jay's, i dont agree with everything he says, but i do feel that efren and parica play a hell of a lot closer than most think. and from the sound of it, maybe harold worst would be the dominant player of today if he wouldn't have died so early.

here it is cuesrus:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=305321#post305321
 
Based off resuts i have seen and what i have heard.

8ball - Efren by far, don't know what Parica has achieved in 8ball.
9ball - Anybodys game, maybe Parica slightly, based off his US open result.
Straight - No idea, i favour Parica for consistency reasons.
One-P - Efren by far, is he beatable at this?
Rotation - Efren's great positioning wins me here.
Billiards - Not sure, i guess Efren for his imagination.

4-2 in favour of Efren for me.
 
enzo said:
i believe efren is the slight overall favorite (but not by very much at all). however, my gut feeling is.... put up like 500K on the line and play a long race (or ahead) with no breaks (ie just play strait through), and parica would take it. to add one more thing, i bet if something like this were to materialize, efren wouldn't want to play parica, but parica would be more than willing. that is pure opinion however, and i could be way off about that.
Click to expand...

Your gut would get you broke. I know you like to hate on Efren lately. Probably because we all idolize him.

Anyway, as someone who has been privileged to know both players as an aquaintence for 15 years and a fan who has watched both play for as long. I have to say that while either of them could win any given set of pool, at any game, I believe that Efren is the better and more consistent player.

As for the 500k bet. There would be SO MANY people vying to back Efren in this that it would be ridiculous. If you want an idea of how the world feels then just count the amount of people who have the money who would be willing to back Efren as opposed to the amount that would back Jose.

The truth is that in tournament play Efren completely dominates Jose in all the big tournaments that they have both played in. Efren has consistently dominated the field in all the largest prize money tournaments.

In the gambling arena Efren has more legendary stories about him beating on champions and giving out spots no one else even dreams about. We NEVER hear of ANYONE backing Jose against champions giving up weight.

Efren is the epitome if the humble champion. He is just a fantastic player who never brags about his phenomenal skill. Jose, for all of his incredible talent is just flat out eclipsed by Efren. As are many other champions as well.

While Efren doesn't have the amount of WC titles that Strickland and Archer do, or the amount of US Open titles that Sigel and Strickland do he certainly has a broad array of titles in many disciplines that make him the greatest all-around player of the modern age. These accomplishments far outweigh what Parica has done.

Jose Parica has a long hill to climb to even begin to claim parity with Efren. In any gambling match I think Efren has the edge because he simply plays pool the best he can whereas Jose is playing for his ego and his pride when playing against Efren.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Your gut would get you broke. I know you like to hate on Efren lately. Probably because we all idolize him.

John
Click to expand...

i just want to clarify this one point. i don't think ive "hated" on efren at all, i feel ive done the opposite if you actaully read my posts. for example, in this thread i said efren is the slight overall favorite. but we all know that doesnt matter when it really comes down to playing for something, its who has more heart that will come out victorious.

in short, ive only stated what i feel is the truth about efren, that many players play very close to him. and considering this, it seems his skill level gets blown out of proportion.

we each have our opinions, that's all. you need to calm down is another one of my opinions by the way. do you have the ability to politley disagree with someone or is that outside the realm of your capabilities (again, imo it is)?
 
ER vs JP And the winner is....

enzo said:
i bet if something like this were to materialize, efren wouldn't want to play parica, but parica would be more than willing. that is pure opinion however, and i could be way off about that.
Click to expand...

Enzo,
I don't think I would have to go out on a limb to say that Efren is not your favorite player. To each his own is my motto.:)
But I think your post almost implies that Efren would be scared to play Jose. I don't believe that for one second. If you put big cash in front of Efren, he will play anybody. He usually wins those big money tournaments ( KOH, Japan, COM 1+2,etc...). I think the scenario is Efren is a Legend that constantly grows in stature ( sometimes just, sometimes not) and I think Jose wishes he had the status whether deserved or not that Efren possesses. So of course Jose would love to play Efren, he has much less to lose. And everything to gain. Efren on the other hand is in the position of I do not have to prove myself. Being a national sports hero in PI, he has earned this position through his victories on the pool table. Beating of losing to Jose would not prove anything:
But if the sponsors put up enough money, Efren would jump all over it!!!
In the PI it is all about the money, besides Efren has an entire Barrio to feed!!!

Just some thoughts
Rob
 
Last edited:
King Cueball said:
ill go one step further! in a long race in any game ill take efren against anyone who ever picked up a cue! you can beat efren in a race to 11 but in a really long race is overpowering ability will prevail
Click to expand...

What about Wimpy Lassiter? I heard a story that Wimpy ran 20 racks once.
 
I have to agree with taking Efren in anything done on a pool table. Parica can't close out anything as of late (at least the largely publicized matches). Yet another reason to bank on Reyes.
 
Before I type this, let me say that I like Efren over Parica in all games.

That said, let me toss this out since this discussion is who would you BET on. (not who is better). Me and my best friend Wayne went to the DCC this year. After Jose snapped the 10ball ring game we were in the lounge and my buddy went to get a drink. Wayne is sitting in the bar and he strikes up a conversation with the guy who staked Jose in the ring game. My friend asked him why he didnt stake Efren in that ring game instead. The response he got was that all of the filipinos except Jose could not be trusted and that they would just as soon cut you up as win the cash for you. He even went further and said that he had been personally a victim of exactly this by all the big filipino names except jose.

Food for thought since people are hypothesizing staking Efren with houses, 500k etc etc.

I wouldnt bet more than just a sweat bet on anyone but myself. Too many of these large dollar games you might just get cut up and tossed out like chum for the two "champions" to feed on. Just my 2cents worth, not trying to say at all the Efren is a dumper.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Jose's claim of beating Efren for the cash in the Philippines is his fish tale.
I've been told by people who used to stake both players, Efren beat Jose on rotation before Efren even turned 21. Jose was spotting him 71-49 but did not have to. Jose, due to his pride would not give up the spot.
Jose always mentions Efren and Busta have never beat him in the finals of a huge tournament here.
Click to expand...


Being told is not being there to witness the truth. My mother use to say believe now of what you hear, and only half of what you see SPECIALLY if it is NEWS...
 
PoolSleuth said:
Being told is not being there to witness the truth. My mother use to say believe now of what you hear, and only half of what you see SPECIALLY if it is NEWS...
Click to expand...
True that but when one player claims to be much better than the other while the other is in the hall of fame and has much more money, I'd believe the other guy and his friends.
And since I've seen Efren win again and again giving up ridiculous spots, I like to put my money on him.
Case in point, I drove Efren and his backer to Hard Times, La Habra one night. Efren just got here from a long flight from the Philippines that afternoon. He gives the local hotshot the orange crush and the breaks. Wins a thousand and I get $200 in sidebet.:eek:
Is Jose better than Efren? Maybe but after seeing John Schmidt drill Jose on one-hole and he's asking for one more ball against Efren tells me Efren might just be a little better.
 
Jose told Billiard Digest that he beat Efren quite a bit when they were playing money games in the past.They both were primarily playing in the Phillipenes back then. I have read myself that Jose is a monster to any pro of any caliber when it comes to the "green". They both play lights out. Who knows?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top