Who Would You Vote For-Mosconi OR Fats?

[catscradle]

The international controversy that ensued after Tanya and Company attempting to eliminate her main competition brought ice-skating to a new level. Tickets were sold out at ice-skating exhibitions thereafter.

Pool needs an agent of change. Whether it is in the form of a Mosconi- or Minnesota Fats-like image, I'm not so sure. This is 2005, and things are different now than then.

A think another movie would help, but not a piece of trash like PHJ. I think the storyline in "Love of The Game" has potential as I recall it. It isn't a great piece of fiction, but it has something more than a bunch of adolescents doing trick bets and pretending to be hustlers. Maybe even Keith's Story will do the trick as a movie. Or a sequel to TCOM with Newman just kind of coasting running a struggling pool room and the Tom Cruise characther somehow involved.

One thing for sure, if the governing body of men's professional pool doesn't step up to the plate soon, the ladies will surpass them, as they are doing quite well right now, thanks to the WPBA.

Have they possibly already surpassed them in terms of public awaredness. How man people recognize Alison Fischer's name as opposed to Johnny Archer's? I actually think that women's pool may be a better avenue of exposure because it has some nice looking women (sexist or not, it's true), it leverages the current political correctness, and because women, at this point at least, aren't as good as the men but they're better than most men. This last point I think is very important. The men sometimes seem too perfect, they appear to have no human flaws. Whereas, the women still have awesome ability but they make more mistakes so that regular people can identify more easily with them.

Personally, if TV pool died it wouldn't really bother me, there's still accu-stats tapes. However, pool on TV has got to influence it's popularity as a recreational sport and anything that gets more people playing (as long as I can still get a table) is good.

 

[catscradle]

A think another movie would help, but not a piece of trash like PHJ. I think the storyline in "Love of The Game" has potential as I recall it. ...

I guess I didn't recall it all that well, make that "Do It For The Game".

 

[Howard]

Willie,

He shot the game with brillances and artistic beauty. Fats shot off
his mouth.

Willie crisscrossed the country for many years, playing in little 6 to 10
table rooms putting on great exhibitions - does that count for promoting

What did Fats do: steal a name from a Novel and/or movie.

Howard

 

[ChuckR]

Given talent and contributions to the game it would have to be Willie. Fats only promoted himself and was very successful at it, but it made very little contribution to the game. The 15 world titles in straight pool and countless exibitions that he gave makes Mosconi the clear choice

 

[OldHasBeen]

Howard - Think about what you said!

You said - "Willie crisscrossed the country for many years, playing in little 6 to 10 table rooms putting on great exhibitions.

What did Fats do?

Howard - Fats was on the Johnny Carson show quite a few time and was seen by millions of non-playing TV viewers.

If you were to have given Fats & Mosconi $1,000 each and locked them in a poolroom, Moscoooooooni would have been looking for "A Walking Stick" within 3 hours.

Chuck R - You stated - "Fats only promoted himself".
Well Chris Moneymaker is touring the casino's around the country and playing in exibition games. Do you think he is doing it to promote Poker OR to MakeMoney?

The bottom line & the original question still is - Which one would be the best to promote our game IF we could bring back only one of them?

Do you really thing that the average non-pool playing TV audience would rather see Efren run 150 balls OR watch, listen & experience - Keith & Ronnie matching up and gambeling for $50K ???

TY & GL

 

[JustPlay]

all non-pool players and recreational players all know who Minnesota Fats is. None of them know who Johnny Archer is, Mike Sigel, Willie Mosconi, Nick Varner, Efren Reyes and who Buddy Hall is.

Landon Shuffet the child pool prodogy has had more tv time than most pros. He has been on the Jay Leno show, Ripleys Believe it not show etc...

If Fats were around today, he would have been on all of these shows and would have been a host commentator on espn.

Yes, Willie Mosconi was a champion, has been all around and ran 526 balls in an exhibition, but his name is just not reconized as a household name. Fats is...

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)
At the UPA-sanctioned event in Atlanta, Johnny Archer was forfeited, due to his late arrival. I heard Johnny's version of the story, and I think he got a bum deal. Having said that, though, I applaud the UPA for at least attempting to follow the rules set forth by their organization and show NO FAVORITISM. I just read that Danny Harriman conceded his match at the Bicycle event in L.A., and the UPA disqualified him for the tournament, and he won't be allowed to play in the next event. This shows no favoritism. I do believe they are making huge strides as of late and hope they continue. A fair and equitable ranking system would be an excellent start.

(snip)

JAM

Yes! Glad to hear this, JAM. I think conceding a match IN A TOURNAMENT should be grounds for disqualification, because it affects every other player in the tournament---and because, in the pro ranks, it cheats the spectators (ie, the money).

JAM, you're too good...stop it!

Jeff Livingston

 

[sjm]

At the UPA-sanctioned event in Atlanta, Johnny Archer was forfeited, due to his late arrival. I heard Johnny's version of the story, and I think he got a bum deal. Having said that, though, I applaud the UPA for at least attempting to follow the rules set forth by their organization and show NO FAVORITISM. I just read that Danny Harriman conceded his match at the Bicycle event in L.A., and the UPA disqualified him for the tournament, and he won't be allowed to play in the next event. This shows no favoritism. I do believe they are making huge strides as of late and hope they continue. A fair and equitable ranking system would be an excellent start.

If the fellows don't watch out, the new Pool Agent of Change, due to the increasing popularity of women's pool, won't be a woofer like Fats or a squeaky-clean Mosconi. I think the WPBA is on the right track, and again, I really do like their recent new-and-improved coverage on TV now.

JAM

Dead accurate, JAM. A well-written and well thought out post, just as I've come to expect of you.

 

[JustPlay]

The WPBA has been around forever. There key to success over the years has been one thing---Consistantancy!

 

[jjinfla]

OHB,

I didn't know either of them nor did I see them play. I vaguely remember Fats on TV trying to sell his plywood pool tables. I just wasn't into pool until I retired. But name recognition for both of them is strong. As for promoting the game, from the film clips I have seen of Fats, he wins hands down.

I understand that Fats promoted himself as being who the movie was based on and Tevis kept saying that was not true. At his Tevis' wake his wife is reported to say it was not true. But no one really believes that do they? They all believe the movie was based on Minnesota Fats. Of course, it was New York Fats until the movie came out. So just on that promotion I have to give it to Fats.

But there are a lot of people who are promoting the game nowadays. Individuals and groups. Unfortunately there is no one organized group. Just a bunch of groups all just working for themselves. And it is impossible for them to unite. Everyone wants to be the boss. And they put down, or ignore, the other groups in hoping that they will be considered the best or get the most to follow them. IMO

And we do have a man out there who is a great ambasador for the game but too many people instead of praising him for his accomplishments find pleasure in pointing out his faults. A great champion who people should praise and tout but instead find it more appealing to put him down. Draws a crowd wherever he appears. And is loved overseas too.

Professional pool will never get anywhere until they get to the point where the players will all get paid for performing. And somehow I just do not see that happening.

And of course my vote for the male pro who has the best name recognition, and the best interest for the sport would be Earl "da pearl" Strickland.

Jake

 

[B.J.the bandit]

The best

1. - This is not a popularity poll!
The question is - Who would be best to promote the game if we could bring only one of them back?

2. - In the next poll (not now), I would like to ask y'all who you THINK would win in a One Pocket match between Fats & - Willie, Ronnie, Cliff, Etc. This hypothetical game would have been played when all players were "At Their Peek" & I'm not guessing, I KNOW!

TY & GL

This is a no brainer Ronnie Allen {Even a blond would know }

 

[B.J.the bandit]

i had the opportunity to observe willie for a solid boring week sometime in the 60s. he was brought to minneapolis by max winter, then one of the owners of the mpls. lakers. they set up a new gold crown in a television studio and he and chris macghean (spelling?) were to make a television pilot. i was selected to be the referee. 100 points of straight pool, with of course willie winning. (pre determined) after hitting balls every night, we then would go to breakfast - at that time I was a low leval pool hustler with stars in my eyes. willis stuck me EVERY night for the meal. My opinion of willie is this - talented CHEAP PRICK. in all of my travels i have never heard a GOOD word about willie mosconi only that he could play great pool under IDEAL conditions. HIS Personality = ZERO

I agree. He was like the saying,Your so vain!! I new Fat's My dad Had a lot of $$ riding with him most of the time back when, He always did the best he could He had class about himself,always paid back the cheese,Not like a lot of known players today!!!

 

[B.J.the bandit]

IMHO
It still wouldn't help. Okay Fats was well known maybe even popular, but I don't think for a minute that he put people in the pool rooms. "The Hustler" put people in the pool rooms (and put Fats in the limelight), "TCOM" put people in the pool rooms, but Fats didn't. He may have even drawn a crowd to watch him in an exhibition, but Bill Cosby draws a crowd and the people don't leave and become comedians. You make some good points but without "The Hustler" Fats would be just a footnote in the history of pool and Mosconi would be at least known by regular pool players. Don't forget when you and I were kids Willie Mosconi's name was known in almost every household and nobody ever heard of Fats. I know I knew his name before I ever picked up a stick and absolutely nobody in my family played pool and the nearest pool room was 45 minutes away in Boston.
BTW, I hope I'm wrong and you're right and another Fats comes along.

Silly, we have one now, Ronnie Allen! He is as fun as it gets these days Ha Ha Go watch & see for yourself!!

 

[OldHasBeen]

Joe Six Pack never heard of .........

Joe Six Pack never heard of Ronnie OR Earl. Only if you were to tell Joe Six Pack that Ronnie WAS the Paul Newman part, would they even know of him.
If they aren't Italian, they never heard of Moscooooooni. As I have said before, what the game needs, it already has. True personalities and talents that need to be brought to the general TV audience.
ALL WE NEED IS WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE - COLOR.

TY & GL