Who's the best Pinoy after Bata Reyes?

Is that why NOBODY in the Phillipines can take Dennis Orcullo down for the cash, a fact that Efren has admitted publicy? Now if you ask who is the best all-around player then it becomes a different question, there is obviously no one who even threatens Efren, and then you would have to consider Parica as a second on the strength of his one-pocket and snooker skills in addition to the rotation games. However, if you're talking about a long session of 9-ball or 10-ball, forget about it. The question becomes who's next after Dennis, and there are many who would put Alex next and then Efren! I suspect that it is only a matter of time and match experience before Orcullo shows dominance on the tournament scene as well.
 
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When Orcullo wins anything important, let me know. Until then, he is not even mentionable with Reyes.

I don't care who beats who for the cash. In our sport, the champions are the ones that go to battle against all the greats at once and manage to be the last man standing.

Efren is the greatest player that has ever lived. Orcullo's potential is obvious, but his credentials are close to non-existent in the world's most premier events, meaning those having a diverse and deep international field.
 
Going by consistent performances I'd have to go with Alex, he probably has the most natural ability I've ever seen. I'd throw Manalo and Bustamante in the mix but they never seem to be able to win the big one. Orcollo may be the money king in the Philippines but if he plays anything that's not a rotation type game he get's smoked, his all around game needs alot of work.
 
In fact, if you have followed Reyes career it is simialar to Dennis's at the same stages. In his earlier years Reyes was a cash player not really great in tourneys. Actually Dennis has won more Tournments at this stage then Reyes. Who know's they may end up fairly comparable in the end.
 
sjm said:
When Orcullo wins anything important, let me know. Until then, he is not even mentionable with Reyes.


wow! Well for what its worth, Dennis has Efren's respect... and he earned it too! Sure he won something important namely some of Efren's money. You don't get to be no.1 without beating Reyes.

Oh, and the title of the thread is asking who is next AFTER Reyes. Definitely Dennis, and Alex closely followed by Marlon and Ronnie.
 
alex

I'd go with Alex, based on his all-around skills. Orcullo has yet to assert himself in one-pocket like Alex has. But at that level it is only time until Orcullo gets better at 1P.

Then again, at that level it's anyone's game. They're all world beaters.
 
who's the best after bata...?

it's not actually the question of being all-around king, money king, tournament king or all-night-long marathon king or even derby king...this legit question is who's best pinoy after Efren?
 
sniper said:
Going by consistent performances I'd have to go with Alex, he probably has the most natural ability I've ever seen. I'd throw Manalo and Bustamante in the mix but they never seem to be able to win the big one. Orcollo may be the money king in the Philippines but if he plays anything that's not a rotation type game he get's smoked, his all around game needs alot of work.

I watched Dennis for 3 days at an IPT qualifier competing against 76 other players. The room, Hard Times, is a regullar stop for the other Filipinos when they are in So. Calif. He was awesome at 8 Ball, 9 Ball and rotation. He didn't really know 1 Pocket at the time but siad he was going to learn. Oliver Ortmann gave him a run but Dennis was dominant. If you are "The Money Player" in the Philipines how strong is that!!? Out of curiosity what part of his game needs a lot of work? From what I hear from the Filipinos passing through no one, including Alex, is anxious to match up even with Dennis.
 
sniper said:
Orcollo may be the money king in the Philippines but if he plays anything that's not a rotation type game he get's smoked, his all around game needs alot of work.
I think it's safe to say that Dennis has proven himself an accomplished 8ball player, considering his undefeated run at the Hard Times IPT qualifier and making it the final round robin in both IPT events.

It seemed like he did get smoked this year's DCC banks, and his knowledge in 1P is nearly not there yet.

He also did compete in the World Straight Pool competition last year, and his showing was respectable. He did get out of the group stages, going 5-2 defeating the likes of Varner and Barouty. Considering his limited experience in straight pool, that aint bad. Though, I'm sure many considered it disappointing considering his reputation in the Philippines.

Nevertheless, I would still place Dennis behind Alex at this moment, at least in overall ability. But I don't care how long Dennis and Alex will put into the various other disciplines, there will always be only one Efren Reyes.
 
My good friend is a player rep for most top Filipino players when they come to the western part of the US. People he represents include Orcullo, Marlon, Gallego, Valle, Corteza, and a few more. He is also good friends with Efren, Bustamante, and Luat. Anyways, I had a discussion with him about this very subject. I asked him who is the best player in the Phillipines, besides Efren.

Bear in mind that my friend plays at the pro level, and obviously he is very adept with knowledge of pool, and he keeps up to date with action in the Phillipines. He told me that there are certain levels of players, who although may appear unbeatable to people in the US, they are not on certain levels of other players in the Pinas. I told him how highly I thought of Marlon's game, and asked him how he would do against Orcullo. He told me quite sternly, "Marlon has no chance against Orcullo in a long match."

I was pretty shocked when he told me this. He told me there are two different tiers for the top players, and named some of the players that belong in the top tier. Efren, Bustamante, Alcano, Orcullo, Corteza, Pagulayan, and Parica when he's there, are in the "top tier" of players there. He mentioned a few others, but I forgot their names. In a tier right below them, are the likes of Gandy Valle, Manalo, Luat (who used to be in the top tier), Leonardo Andam (who also used to be in the top tier), Gallego, De Luna, and a few others that I can't remember.

I also asked him how Efren feels about Orcullo. He also gave me pretty serious answer, and I quote "If Efren's in stroke, nobody has a chance, especially in a long match. Orcullo will play Efren if he thinks Efren's game is off. When Efren's game is on, everybody knows it, and everybody stays away from him, especially Orcullo. He can't touch Efren when hes in stroke."

That pretty much sums it up. I forgot to add, that even the second tier players, when they are 'on' they can beat any of the high tier any time.
 
My ratings ...

JohnPT said:
wow! Well for what its worth, Dennis has Efren's respect... and he earned it too! Sure he won something important namely some of Efren's money. You don't get to be no.1 without beating Reyes.

Oh, and the title of the thread is asking who is next AFTER Reyes. Definitely Dennis, and Alex closely followed by Marlon and Ronnie.

Without having seen them play in person, it is extremely hard to rate, but I would rate:

Efren
Alex & Dennis
Manalo
Ronnie

Alex & Dennis rated on current play to date. Dennis might have more potential, but has not proven it yet.

I rate Manalo above Ronnie because other than the WPC matches, I have seen what I believed to be errors in logic from Ronnie, but not from Manalo. I think in all around play, Manalo would top Ronnie.
 
First off, in an all-around session which will include 8,9,10 balls, rotation and one-pocket, Efren still comes out on top even when he's off.

Next in line:
Alex
Django
Orcullo
Alcano
Manalo
Corteza
Gabica
Gallego
Gomez
De Luna
Parica
Andam
Luat
Petiza
Valle
Tanio
Sambajon
Perez
Pena
Villanueva
Joven Bustamante
Biado
.....
 
bandido said:
First off, in an all-around session which will include 8,9,10 balls, rotation and one-pocket, Efren still comes out on top even when he's off.

Next in line:
Alex
Django
Orcullo
Alcano
Manalo
Corteza
Gabica
Gallego
Gomez
De Luna
Parica
Andam
Luat
Petiza
Valle
Tanio
Sambajon
Perez
Pena
Villanueva
Joven Bustamante
Biado
.....
Possible conversation between me and someone else...

Joe Schmoe: Hey jsp. What's up?
Me: Nothing much. Just shootin some pool lately.
Joe Schmoe: Oh, so you're into pool, huh? I'm a bit familiar with pool myself. I've watched a view ESPN pool tournaments on TV the past year or two. You familiar with Santos Sambajon? Man, that guy is good. On TV, I saw him winning the World Summit of Pool two years ago and last year's Skins event. He must be one of the greatest pool players today. You must have heard of him.
Me: Yeah, Santos is pretty good, but not nearly the best. He's probably ranked 18th or so.
Joe Schmoe: You gotta be kidding me. I saw him on TV. That guy can flat out play, winning those two tournaments. And you say he's ranked only 18th in the world? Yeah right.
Me: No, I didn't say that.
Joe Schmoe: Oh, okay...good. I thought you said 18th!
Me: I did, he's ranked 18th ONLY IN HIS COUNTRY, the Philippines!
Joe Schmoe: !!!!
 
JohnPT said:
wow! Well for what its worth, Dennis has Efren's respect... and he earned it too! Sure he won something important namely some of Efren's money. You don't get to be no.1 without beating Reyes.

Oh, and the title of the thread is asking who is next AFTER Reyes. Definitely Dennis, and Alex closely followed by Marlon and Ronnie.

Actually, I was reacting to the post of VIP Professor, in which it was suggested that the question should instead be who was next after Orcullo, not Efren. I failed to quote his post, though, and that was my mistake.

Orcullo may well prove to be a future superstar, and its understandable that he has Efren's fullest respect, but until he beats the deepest, most talented, and internationally diverse fields the game has to offer, it still qualifies as potential rather than as achievement.
 
What about?

bandido said:
First off, in an all-around session which will include 8,9,10 balls, rotation and one-pocket, Efren still comes out on top even when he's off.

Next in line:
Alex
Django
Orcullo
Alcano
Manalo
Corteza
Gabica
Gallego
Gomez
De Luna
Parica
Andam
Luat
Petiza
Valle
Tanio
Sambajon
Perez
Pena
Villanueva
Joven Bustamante
Biado
.....

Warren Kiamco? Is he Filipino?
 
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