Why are there so few black pro players..?

thank you, leftyike, for taking the conversation beyond the simple mindedness of

who cares
race doesn’t matter
pool halls are very diverse
pool doesn’t pay so why would anyone turn professional

the sport is extremely white, like the nfl quarterback position in the 1970’s
 
It is about educating pool folks who do not know what we know. There are a lot of folks who say American Pool is never better. If we can show one contingent which was once greatly involved but is no longer, it provides a point to convince, then extrapolate and begin analysis. (Oh, shit, he's right. Why are our black friends no longer participating? Where are they participating? Can we bring them back?)

It is my belief that Black American Pool Players were a very important segment of our sport. It is a shame segregation was allowed to do what it did, with pool and everywhere else. But this is now, and it's time to move on several fronts.

I believe that American Pool is in serious decline compared to my younger days and even worse compared to the 40s and 50s. If I am correct, should we not be seeking solutions? This is our sport to save.


I was first exposed to Pool at 5, or 6 at Boys Club of America in Miami.

Equipment was garbage, Boys stood in line to play. If you won you played next kid, as long as you won you could keep playing.
We had two Pool tables with folding legs, bar size, crooked cues, but we did not know we had crap. We were lucky to be able to be at Boys Club.


Boys Club was for kids from working or not so well off families.

Pool, Crafts, and Sports was very popular. Sport equipment was crap. We played Football with leather helmets. If you were fist string you got New Plastc Helmet with Face mask.

My goal was to make first string as I hate the leather helmets with no face protection.

Made first team on defense, loved tackling people, and inflecting a hard hit.
 
if the whole country isn't being considered, would be interesting to know who you have in mind. names, their fargorates etc.

in our era there are very few hidden monster players, especially in the USA and europe.
Josh Robert’s, for one, is a better player than several other picks in the last few years. However, it’s typical and expected, just as the losses are to other countries, around the world. Years ago, as great as the American players were, as soon as competition started to come to America from around the world, America has consistently been beaten down and completely humiliated by the rest of the world. I saw it in the 1960’s and 70’s, when soldiers returned from the war and described how the Filipino players took their money. Then, when the Filipino players came to America, they called it a “Filipino Invasion “!!!! What the Hell were they invading? The sheer arrogance of the statements about the “Foreign Players “ was ridiculous, ending with America shamefully getting our Asses kicked on the World stage. I don’t know where Pool would be without Non-American players! The World of Pool players knows that the United States is not putting their best players on the Felt, and them kicking our Asses is proof. I’m ashamed of what happened to the “American game”, and it’s proof that it never belonged to America. Just look at the names in the Major Tournaments! Twenty year old players are playing our Best, Head up, and are dominating America for the most part!
 
Josh Robert’s, for one, is a better player than several other picks in the last few years. However, it’s typical and expected, just as the losses are to other countries, around the world. Years ago, as great as the American players were, as soon as competition started to come to America from around the world, America has consistently been beaten down and completely humiliated by the rest of the world. I saw it in the 1960’s and 70’s, when soldiers returned from the war and described how the Filipino players took their money. Then, when the Filipino players came to America, they called it a “Filipino Invasion “!!!! What the Hell were they invading? The sheer arrogance of the statements about the “Foreign Players “ was ridiculous, ending with America shamefully getting our Asses kicked on the World stage. I don’t know where Pool would be without Non-American players! The World of Pool players knows that the United States is not putting their best players on the Felt, and them kicking our Asses is proof. I’m ashamed of what happened to the “American game”, and it’s proof that it never belonged to America. Just look at the names in the Major Tournaments! Twenty year old players are playing our Best, Head up, and are dominating America for the most part!

ok. thought you meant other than mosconi. yes could have been a year or two where josh could have been picked, over maybe wolford or reinhold. but those choices could have been merited with cultivating young talent. josh is 40+. and he's not putting himself out there enough in rotation either
 
I believe that American Pool is in serious decline compared to my younger days and even worse compared to the 40s and 50s. If I am correct, should we not be seeking solutions? This is our sport to save.

it is sinking as pool rooms are not conducive for hanging out anymore. and few gamble. so playing often and getting better because of that is no longer much of an option. for any race.

and so pool rooms close as rents and costs go up and the clientele doesn't increase with it.

look at the philippines when people are playing, the place is crowded.

and the younger crowd here in the u.s. are more into video things than active things.
 
thank you, leftyike, for taking the conversation beyond the simple mindedness of

who cares
race doesn’t matter
pool halls are very diverse
pool doesn’t pay so why would anyone turn professional

the sport is extremely white, like the nfl quarterback position in the 1970’s
i am impressed you could read his posts without getting a headache
@LeftyIke
if you separate your sentences and make some paragraphs in your posts
it would make them much easier to read.......just sayin
 
When I watch mlb games, a good percentage of players are black, but black fans are rather rare. They evidently don't have a desire to acclimate to societal culture.
A great percentage of these black players that you see in baseball are black Latinos (mostly from the Dominican Republic). African Americans (born in the US) are by far the minority of the black players in today's MLB.
 
it is sinking as pool rooms are not conducive for hanging out anymore. and few gamble. so playing often and getting better because of that is no longer much of an option. for any race.

and so pool rooms close as rents and costs go up and the clientele doesn't increase with it.

look at the philippines when people are playing, the place is crowded.

and the younger crowd here in the u.s. are more into video things than active things.
I agree with what you say, especially the video game part. And I could write a book on the subject -- like most, I have lived it. I did everything to interest every kid in the neighborhood except buy a table for the house (no room) and I just don't get how folks can ignore, or fail to acknowledge, or trivialize, pool's plight.

Many years back I learned about "recruitment" -- getting the little fish to hang on and go hang out with the big fish -- and concluded recruitment was one of the places pool was failing. Today, our problem is far worse -- there are far fewer little fish. For many reasons, our basic environment, the pool hall, has collapsed. Who cares? What does it matter? Really?

If I had the money, I would change that, at least here, but truthfully, I'm not certain enough people would come. With enough money, the doors could always be kept ready to open but would they? Sad thought isn't it? Another sad thought is that I used to envision my retirement consisting, at least in part, of spending hours and days in idyllic sojourn, effortlessly hanging around my neighborhood pool hall. (Hell, I even imagined myself making a little book. lol) I guess I can always make the drive to New Orleans . . .

I say we need to get pool tables into every place we can where there is a kid. Get pool in school and make pool a real sport, including coachs, buses, plus all other indicia and accoutrements, all the way through a State Championship, even suitable trophies for the cases, and TEAM PHOTOS . . . Heavy, huh? If pool survives, it's gonna have to be with a different look, but "life" beats "no life" most times in my book.
 
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and remember the biggest jumps in pool came with the fats shows on tv. then with the two big pool movies.

so getting pool in the media is king. and the best way is with shows and very large tournament payouts.
stupid winners on the cheap game shows win more every day than a big pool tournament winner.
why because they get more viewers and they get more viewers because the payouts are big compared to what the viewers make at their jobs.

if they got a trophy and a couple thousand bucks the shows would go off the air from lack of viewers.
 
if the whole country isn't being considered, would be interesting to know who you have in mind. names, their fargorates etc.

in our era there are very few hidden monster players, especially in the USA and europe.
Josh Robert’s, for one, is a better player than several other picks in the last few years. However, it’s typical and expected, just as the losses are to other countries, around the world. Years ago, as great as the American players were, as soon as competition started to come to America from around the world, America has consistently been beaten down and completely humiliated by the rest of the world. I saw it in the 1960’s and 70’s, when soldiers returned from the war and described how the Filipino players took their money. Then, when the Filipino players came to America, they called it a “Filipino Invasion “!!!! What the Hell were they invading? The sheer arrogance of the statements about the “Foreign Players “ was ridiculous, ending with America shamefully getting our Asses kicked on the World stage. I don’t know where Pool would be without Non-American players! The World of Pool players knows that the United States is not putting their best players on the Felt, and them kicking our Asses is proof. I’m ashamed of what happened to the “American game”, and it’s proof that it never belonged to America. Just look at the names in the Major Tournaments! Twenty year old players are playing our Best, Head up, and are dominating America for the most part!
 
there is like 30 times more people in the rest of the world than in the u.s. so it stands to reason as pool gets found, there will be many more and better players than here. and it will get worse as they have more to gain individually so will work harder and do better.
 
@LeftyIke

LeftyIke makes a few good points but the idea that the system (my word) is somehow holding back the black players is not one of them. At this point in our country I think it's clear that whatever athletic endeavor black children pursue with all their might -- they find success. My life has taken me many different places and I can say the pool room -- has always been one of the most inclusive places, at least for men, that I've ever encountered.

I think the main driver when it comes to professional level play is wealth. As the game has shifted away from pool halls, most if not all, of the up and coming players have access to tables in their homes. Sadly, a pool table in the home is a luxury that many can't afford. More and more players are coming from pool playing families too, or have parents who are able to escort them around the country to play. Pool playing culture within families can take several generations to establish, but it can die almost overnight if kids just aren't interested.
 
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Recall working for Coca Cola back in 68 in Anderson, IN. Big GM Town with two GM Plants. One regular stop was in Hazelwood Section of "BLACK" area, it was called, Johnson Lunch, sort of Bar, Brothel, and it had one 9 footer. Friday after pay day they played short Rack Banks, for crazy money. Not one White Face in place except kids delivering Coke. Anderson is now a town that was, not is, as GM Shut down Closed both Delco-Remy, and Guild-Lamp plants, created DELFI, and move to CHINA.
 
There were several GREAT African American Players from the Sixties and into the seventies. They learned to play somewhere. They were: Cannonball, Marvin, Munson, Rucker, Murphy, Gabby and many others. Back then tournaments were far and few between. Action ruled the day. So some here have said blacks didn't get the sponsorships but there can only be one Mosconi and so NOBODY got sponsor money. As I mentioned previously the inner city pool rooms were everywhere and now they don't exist.
 
ok. thought you meant other than mosconi. yes could have been a year or two where josh could have been picked, over maybe wolford or reinhold. but those choices could have been merited with cultivating young talent. josh is 40+. and he's not putting himself out there enough in rotation either
I was referring to Pool overall, Josh Roberts was just mentioned as a recent, obvious, choice of a Player who is more talented and a better overall Player than several recent picks for the U.S. Mosconi Team, and recent years have shown us that the World has surpassed America for DEVELOPED TALENT. Even the Philippines, with bad conditions, and the Players are basically self-taught and learn by facing stiff competition, with support of the COUNTRY and TOP PLAYERS, consistently turn out better, younger, World Class Players. The results are staring us right in our Faces. However , if things continue the way they are, America has NO Chance to catch up in the foreseeable future. Honest evaluation shows where the U.S. is in Pool, and we are theLaughingstock of the Pool World! Arrogant Americans feeling that they are SUPPOSED to be the Best at Everything, especially "American Sports".
 
There were several GREAT African American Players from the Sixties and into the seventies. They learned to play somewhere. They were: Cannonball, Marvin, Munson, Rucker, Murphy, Gabby and many others. Back then tournaments were far and few between. Action ruled the day. So some here have said blacks didn't get the sponsorships but there can only be one Mosconi and so NOBODY got sponsor money. As I mentioned previously the inner city pool rooms were everywhere and now they don't exist.
Having to mention several Great Black Players, highlights the issue and problem, Black Players didn't have equal chances , but knew that they could Pay. If anyone came to The Rack, just outside of Detroit, White Champions and Hustlers from everywhere could get Top Action, at Big Numbers, from Black and White Players. Astronomical amounts of Money were bet and exchanged, and it proved to many Black Players that they could compete with the Best. Bugs, Marvin, Cannonball, and others unmentioned, knew that they were Top Players, but that the System, as usual, was Tilted against them, and if you were considered to be a Thoroughbred, you HAD to get it from the Dirt, that we were not going to be fully accepted in the mainstream, just you HAD to fight against the Grain, our Entire Lives, Pool or otherwise. Pool has completely changed since the Players from around the World were allowed to compete, and be accepted. The Non-American Players have really advanced the Game of Pool in the Last 25 Years or so, and it definitely wasn't America who advanced it. I'm supportive of our Country in its competition, but America has been surpassed, clearly, a long time ago, with no sign of improvement imminent.
 
@LeftyIke

LeftyIke makes a few good points but the idea that the system (my word) is somehow holding back the black players is not one of them. At this point in our country I think it's clear that whatever athletic endeavor black children pursue with all their might -- they find success. My life has taken me many different places and I can say the pool room -- has always been one of the most inclusive places, at least for men, that I've ever encountered.

LOL on that bolded part
 
@LeftyIke

LeftyIke makes a few good points but the idea that the system (my word) is somehow holding back the black players is not one of them. At this point in our country I think it's clear that whatever athletic endeavor black children pursue with all their might -- they find success. My life has taken me many different places and I can say the pool room -- has always been one of the most inclusive places, at least for men, that I've ever encountered.

I think the main driver when it comes to professional level play is wealth. As the game has shifted away from pool halls, most if not all, of the up and coming players have access to tables in their homes. Sadly, a pool table in the home is a luxury that many can't afford. More and more players are coming from pool playing families too, or have parents who are able to escort them around the country to play. Pool playing culture within families can take several generations to establish, but it can die almost overnight if kids just aren't interested.
Many, probably most, Black Children have been self-taught from their Friends, or Schoolmates, unless someone that Shoots or Hangs at the Poolroom took a notice or interest in us, or saw Talent or potential, and helped Teach us the game as they did for me. I couldn't get into the Poolroom, three blocks from my House, because I wasn't 18, so the Window was Painted in the lower part of the Glass windows of the Poolroom, so I stood on my Tiptoes for as long as I could endure, to see the Players compete. The players felt sorry for me, and knew how badly I wanted to Play and Learn, so they told the Owner that they were my Guardian, and they let me in, and Taught me and encouraged me. I read everything in my LocalLibrary on Pool, and bought everything I could find in the Bookstores locally, and then started ordering Pool Instruction Books, and reading up on all the Champions, although, except for Hustlers, they were all White, but I just loved Pool. No Sport has ever accepted Blacks as equal, and even Tiger Woods and the Tennis williams Sisters, had a Lot of Personal Instruction and inspiration from their Parents, or they wouldn't have been accepted or successful. Such, is Life in America, no matter how much Blacks want to Play or compete, most of the time, the Door is completely, or mainly, Blocked, and we are forced to adapt if we want to play at all. Additionally, Poolis terribly promoted, and very divided, despite recent improvements in Purses, Pool has Millions of Players, but is one of the most poorly promoted Sports in the World.
 
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