Why CTE is silly

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Spidey:
The test would immediately show, over a series of shots, who gets closest more often and makes the most shots
And that's all it would show. It would not show that you used CTE and I didn't - we'd only have our own statements as evidence of that.

I believe that you believe you use CTE as a step-by-step system without unconscious adjustment, but I don't believe that you know that, and I don't believe you have the first clue how to find out for sure. Everything you've said about these so-called "tests" shows that you couldn't construct a reliable test if your life depended on it.

pj
chgo
 
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I think, mikepage already pointed out how CTE might help a player to improve his or her game.
Reading these last couple of posts is really sickening. My nightmares may return.
 
I believe that you believe you use CTE as a step-by-step system without unconscious adjustment, but I don't believe that you know that, and I don't believe you have the first clue how to find out for sure. Everything you've said about these so-called "tests" shows that you couldn't construct a reliable test if your life depended on it.

pj
chgo

I don't believe - I know...hence the blind shots where you can't adjust.
 
I think this post really sums up this thread. Nothing but a witch hunt against CTE. Maybe one of the best posts I have seen Spidey make.

Math is a wonderful science, but one unfortunate thing about it is that it can be manipulated to say just about whatever someone wants it to say. Also, you can not use an equation to figure out something with which you do not understand all of the parameters. If something works, even though math says it shouldn't, obviously there is something wrong with the math, or the mathemetician. Science is about finding truth, not letting your bias get in the way. I imagine I do not have to say this, but the scientific method begins with hypothesis, then testing of the hypothesis to see if you are correct. You have a hypothesis, but have done nothing to allow any real testing of it. Any offered testing has been shot down by you. It is like telling newton that gravity does not exist because the math as you understand it does not equate, and holding to that even after seeing the apple hit the floor over and over again.

Personally, I do not know if CTE truely works or not, but I am willing to try it to find out. The biggest problem with CTE may not be whether or not it works, but the lack of good info on how and why it does. Instead of arguing with people, maybe you should learn how to do it and see if it actually works instead of trying to explain why it does not on paper.


Great post Mantis99....thanks
SPF=randyg
 
Ah, I think I'M the early bird here, and you're the worm who has been worming.

Neither you nor anyone else has provided a shot example demonstrating that CTE comes up with the proper aim point within the tolerances I gave in my OP. Without that, all cheerleading talk about CTE is empty and meaningless.

Why not step up to the plate RIGHT NOW (as someone who surely knows CTE--your post is REALLY silly if you don't) and tell us about a shot, the CTE rules for aiming it, and how you know you have the correct place within the tolerances as spelled out in the OP. If you provide the exact, formulaic rules and processes of arriving at the shot solution, then there are people here (the smart ones, not me) who can determine whether what you described will point toward the correct OB hit zone, within the tolerances.

If you're unable to do that, then CTE is not worthy of being called an "aiming system," because, obviously, it doesn't provide or create the necessary information about where to aim.


Never in any of my posts have I claimed knowledge of CTE, nor does anything in my above post need a knowledge of CTE to make sense. It simply points to the idea of rationally, objectively trying to figure something out instead of trying to disprove it. Science is not about who is right and who is wrong, it is about proving or disproving a hypothesis so truth can be uncovered. I simply find the stories and potential of CTE intruiging, and look forward to trying it when Stan's video comes out. If it works great, if not, then I will finally know for real.

I have said before, and will repeat, the greatest problem and frustration with CTE is that, for whatever reason, no one will explain it so it can be repeated by others. No amount of math will prove or disprove something that we do not fully understand.

Your title of the thread says all we need to know. You have no interest in objectively finding truth about CTE, you are simply looking to excite people and create problems. Seriously, who requires dead on scientific data to prove how they aim anyways. Most people aim by feel and basic sighting.

Any person truely interested in a scientific view of this would approach things in a much more objective manner than this. Scientists do not let bias infuse into their work. They would also know that any shot for CTE would have a natural human error due to stroke quality, unless they had a robotic arm to test with. This would be figured into their testing, and sample size, a coefficient of error (for example, how often does he miss straight in shots that do not require aim) would be figured in, and a control shot not using CTE would be used for comparison to weed out the human error. Your requirements of exacting numbers that are not feasible given the limitations of any testing further prove that you either do not know how to develop a reasonable test, or simply do not care to actually have that happen.
 
What you say is meaningless because these same "scientists and engineers" have a pre-disposition to not finding the truth. They'll take someone like me who has the method and less math to prove why there's no method by using math while never further breaking down the method to why it works.

If the scientists were to say, "This CTE method is compelling - lots of people are really, really successful with it. Let's work together to find out why it works," the responses would be different in this thread.

So, over the years, this has turned into a "I'll prove you wrong" argument instead of a sincere effort to find the TRUTH.

You and PJ can say what you want about the blind shots. That is the BEST way to determine tolerance and accuracy. It's easy to say, "Yeah, but how do we know you're using CTE to make the shots - it proves nothing." That's a RIDICULOUS comment because I wouldn't use any other method because it's the best method for the test (because it's the most accurate). Yeah, like I'd "pick a spot on the OB" and try to hit that blind...psssh. You and PJ would likely try that - hence, my point.

Shooting blind shots is indeed a scientific way to test a method without adjustment. The ONLY people on EARTH who would say otherwise is afraid of the outcome of such a test and how it would affect their predisposed positions.

The test would immediately show, over a series of shots, who gets closest more often and makes the most shots without ADJUSTING. So, while you think CTE can never hit your tolerances, I suspect that test will show otherwise.

You and the rest of these so called scientists have no desire to reach the truth. You have too much invested emotionally by calling people names and locking in your position of "no." Tests like the one I suggested are ignored while keeping the ball in your court on the "math" which your side has a monopoly on (as well as the monopoly of "lack of motivation" to drill down on the technique). Therefore, you guys are JUST as at fault as the same people you knock for not posting details when you won't invest the time into the technique as a player.

So, while you wanna "scientist" me to death - my achievements in "computer science" are no less impressive than any single achievement of any mentioned scientist on this board (and I'm saying that on the blind) - and I made these achievements by the time I was legally allowed to drink (not working for "other" companies and universities, but for companies I founded with my intellectual property). Therefore, you're not necessarily the smartest and most analytical guy in the room because you're better at math.

ahhh...this is just...embarrassing (for you).

"I have a system"
"What is it?"
"Ain't tellin'"
"Well, then I don't really believe you have much of anything."

That's the summary of the conversation that's been going on for a decade--except, what elements that HAVE been discussed are stupid, pointless, or of minor importance to aiming.

The question has to be asked, after ALL THIS ANGST, why ain't ya telling?

The only reasonable guess I can come up with is that you KNOW CTE has no objective value, yet it has helped you psychologically to (subconsciously allow yourself?) to make shots. It "works" for you, yet it's nonsense; and you can't bring yourself to face that paradox head on.

The argument will continue--when the Stan DVD or Dave manifesto come out and are gibberish, too.

The one truly unhappy part of this is that people who are not quite bright enough to see through it are spending money on it--money that they maybe could be using for more important things in their lives.

But one thing is sure to a VERY high probability (based on my own long experience of how the world works): If there were any CLEAR and OBJECTIVE value to it as an aiming system, that info would surely have leaked out by now.

I conclude, therefore, that it's worthless crap.
 
You're contradicting yourself.

pj
chgo

Well...I suppose that's what Dr. Dave would say, too.

Exactly the same argument could be made with a "lucky hat." I think it's more accurate to say that it's worthless. I certainly think it's beneficial for people to understand that the "utility" is not found in the external world, but inside Dave's personal cyberspace.

And the one thing that's not discussed in these arguments is the HARM that such a "vague psychological fudge" could do to some who might try it. Personally, I could only imagine it WILDLY messing me up, if I were to try it. Being unable to reconcile it with reality would make me unable to utilize it.

Here's an example from JB. He uses the identical process to make shots of very different angles. To believe that could work isn't just worthless, IMO, it's MUCH WORSE than worthless.
 
You have a predisposition / predetermined opinion.

Not at all. I came to the best preliminary "guesstimate" based on what little evidence is available. The conclusion on this one is based on psychology, not geometry. The people concerned have REFUSED to offer their geometry (or when they have, the geometry is wrong). The justified conclusion from a human psychology perspective is that they're denying the flaws in their claims.

It's very ordinary stuff--people make baseless claims all day long to try to "support" what they want to believe. It's the most common thing in the world.
 
Here's an example from JB. He uses the identical process to make shots of very different angles. To believe that could work isn't just worthless, IMO, it's MUCH WORSE than worthless.

Typed while laughing- yes, to you it would be worthless, and impossible. That is because you are SO biased against it, that you can't even see just what is different in each shot. Your "scientific" mind is failing to grasp the obvious. It's failing because of your bias. You are not taking a scientific approach, and breaking down just what he is doing, and why doing the same thing on each shot produces the desired results, even though the angles change.

It's right there in front of you, try and SEE it.

hint #1: you are too focused on only one aspect of what he is doing.;)
hint #2: What is different, yet the same on each shot?? (There's a nice little riddle for you to solve.:grin:)
 
Typed while laughing- yes, to you it would be worthless, and impossible. That is because you are SO biased against it, that you can't even see just what is different in each shot. Your "scientific" mind is failing to grasp the obvious. It's failing because of your bias. You are not taking a scientific approach, and breaking down just what he is doing, and why doing the same thing on each shot produces the desired results, even though the angles change.

It's right there in front of you, try and SEE it.

hint #1: you are too focused on only one aspect of what he is doing.;)
hint #2: What is different, yet the same on each shot?? (There's a nice little riddle for you to solve.:grin:)

Not interested in games and riddles at this point, Neil. If you've got the info, spill it. If not, stop playing games.
 
If a person can put the CB on the spot on the table that makes the OB go center pocket, that's not estimating thats putting the CB right where you want it.

And that spot is always where the ghost ball would be.

The arrow helps train you to see that spot. Since a ball rolls, all you have to do is hit the CB such that the top of the CB rolls over the point of the arrow. You do this enough, it becomes automatic and the arrow goes away.So simple, so cheap, so free.

With logic like this" well you can't use the Arrow during tourney play so its usless" no wonder you think CTE is the greatest.

The arrow is a TRAINING DEVICE, to be used during practice. Gee, I didn't realize I had to exactly explain this.
 
Not interested in games and riddles at this point, Neil. If you've got the info, spill it. If not, stop playing games.

I'll admit I'm having a little fun, but..... I've been chided enough for not using a scientific approach, so... now I am.

1. Theory: CTE makes it easy to make shots on a pool table.
2. Observe the evidence. Namely, what evidence do I have that I can observe?? Written word, and videos of people using it.
3. After CLOSE scrutiny of evidence, what have I observed? (this is the part you need to work on)
4. Reach a conclusion from the evidence. (This is the part you jumped to too soon.)
5. Test my conclusions. (Another part you left out.)
6. Do my tests confirm or deny the theory? (When I did it the first time, they denied. After much ado by others, I decided that I must have missed something in my observation, and went back through it all. That is when I saw what I had missed, and tested it again. This time, the test was positive! And, after much use, has remained positive. I now have my conclusion.)

p.s.- This is the "game" YOU started.
 
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.... how about we setup a table, get some guys to hold a poster board in between the CB and OB and play a little game of "pig" and see who, after being set, can make more balls blind? That's scientific right, Getmethere, Dr. Dave, Mike Page, Lou & PJ? Let's do that at Valley Forge.


You... have got... to be kidding me. Certainly -- and without a doubt -- the single goofiest thing I've heard you suggest yet.

Lou Figueroa
 
GEMETHERE
Since you know so much about what you dont ,explain what you think cte
is would you.Tell us how you come to the conclusion of all this .
Your CHARACTER is starting to surface.
It really sounds like your trying to derail Stans DVD.
You actually are probably a good player and have something to offer
but i would rather hump a posion ivy plant than read anymore of
your post!
 
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