Why do so many people hate Jump Cues?

Snapshot9 said:
If you were shorter, you would score higher for knowledge on
jumping................... Let me get this right, If I made a part using a
Cinncinati Mill, then all my competitors have to use the same
mill to make the part too, because if they used another machine
to make the part, and probably cheaper, it would be UNFAIR.
The opponent put you in the HOLE, you didn't. Why should you
have to play to your opponents hand? That's like saying just
because your opponent leaves you a long shot with the cue ball
uptable on the rail, you have to shoot the shot he expected you
to shoot. Which is preposterious!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,english.
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first off, scott,,,why the derogatory comment starting off???

second,,,that's a terrible analogy,,,,,,, comparing it to companies building a better mousetrap. industry advances through innovation, and hopefully we all benefit. innovation is NEEDED and encouraged, else we'd still be running on steam

pool is just a game. how has 9ball been made BETTER with the jump cue?,,, and you can cc your reply to earl as well.
 
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One of the reasons why this game has stagnated for so long is tradition. Think about the advances in Golf since we are using them as a reference: different material shafts, different material heads, different shape of grooves, comprehensive swing analyzers, new putter technology, new clubs......the list goes on.

Sure they came up to some hurdles, people didn't like the sound of metal woods, or didn't like the flex of a certain shaft but in the end it helped them play the game better/ easier. I think one of the reasons why this game is a joke to the public and the players don't get paid what they deserve is because of the player's thinking. Think of every organization that has failed, they were all run by PLAYERS. Sure you should have a player as a consultant, but ultimately the decisions should be made by a board of people that know successful business models. Do you think the NBA or PGA are run by players? I don't think so.

Which is why someone from outside the industry is making the biggset move/impact in the game's history.
 
Well we were talking about a trip we made to JOB to do alittle cheap gambling about a year ago I was playing a guy about my speed at playing 9-ball as far as pocketing balls and shapes and so forth BUT he could use a jump cue like NOBODY i have seen i mean i played this guy safe leaving maybe 3 or 4 inchs and BLAM he drills the balls in on me so i had to adjust my safetys which i did and took his little stick from him, BUT guess what i did the next day , YEP you guessed it went right out and bought me a Lucasi Jump Cue and figured im fighting fire with fire now LOL. And i will to this day give that man the credit he deserved for his skill at using a jump cue. Bruin and others who dont like the jump cue its OK with me guys i mean i made this post not just wanting people to yell that they love it because after watching for along time i notice more of the Older players / 1Hole / 14.1 guys that dont like the jump cue. Im 35 so i started playing when we jumped with a full cue and most rooms you couldnt jump at all so because I love 9-ball i learned all i could to over take my opponent. Now i will play ina tourny even if they say no jump cues but i dont think its fair. anyhow GREAT debate guys.
 
Which is best?

Since we're discussing (again :rolleyes: ) jump cues. In the opinion of participants on AZB which is the best pure jump cue?
 
well on a pure jump cue not a jump/break I personally for the money and the way it works LOVE a lucasi jump cue i think retail was only around $70 and it looks great and seems to work just as good as any others . I tried a bobby pickle jump cue a bungee and a mcdaniel jump cue and found that not one did anything more for me than another. just my thoughts on it but i know i have sold lots of them to my friends and when i goto the billiard pro shop in memphis trying to get 1 or 2 its normally toss up if he is sold out of them.
 
half a balls width

jsp said:
I agree that the golf analogy isn't very appropriate, because it would be impossible to hit a pitching wedge 250 yards...or execute a flop shot out of a green-side bunker with a fairway wood. I think the better analogy would be baseball and bunting. If a batter decides to bunt the ball, i think it would much easier if he calls time out and brings out a whiffleball-sized bat with a barrel diameter of a foot. By changing bats, bunting would be significantly easier...BUT you can still bunt effectively with a normal sized bat, although doing so would be more difficult. Likewise for jump cues. You can still jump effectively with a normal cue, although it would be more difficult than a jump cue. Using jumping cues make the game unnecessarily easier than it should be.
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by this logic it would be most appropriate. It's impossible to jump a ball with a full cue from half a balls width, so they should allow jump cues :)

Golf didn't start out with 15 clubs it started out with one. Now of course its several hundred years later, but don't say that it isn;t a valid analogy.

I personally don't care one way or the other just make a friggin standard so everyone knows. I hate going to a tournament and having to constantly ask the tournament director, hey can I make jump shots? Can I use a jump cue to do it? Can I use a shaft only to jump.

STELLA!!!!
 
jbell said:
Well we were talking about a trip we made to JOB to do alittle cheap gambling about a year ago I was playing a guy about my speed at playing 9-ball as far as pocketing balls and shapes and so forth BUT he could use a jump cue like NOBODY i have seen i mean i played this guy safe leaving maybe 3 or 4 inchs and BLAM he drills the balls in on me so i had to adjust my safetys which i did and took his little stick from him, BUT guess what i did the next day , YEP you guessed it went right out and bought me a Lucasi Jump Cue and figured im fighting fire with fire now LOL. And i will to this day give that man the credit he deserved for his skill at using a jump cue. Bruin and others who dont like the jump cue its OK with me guys i mean i made this post not just wanting people to yell that they love it because after watching for along time i notice more of the Older players / 1Hole / 14.1 guys that dont like the jump cue. Im 35 so i started playing when we jumped with a full cue and most rooms you couldnt jump at all so because I love 9-ball i learned all i could to over take my opponent. Now i will play ina tourny even if they say no jump cues but i dont think its fair. anyhow GREAT debate guys.
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Jbell, I am 37 so I am going to guess that you grew up playing two-foul nine ball like I did. I will gladly lay down my jump cue if someone, ANYONE will play two foul nine ball. One foul nine ball is a really shitty game. While it does favor fantastic execution sometimes, it is truly a game of shoot and duck, shoot and duck.

For those of you that don't know what I am talking about, 2 Foul 9-ball is where the incoming player can push out on any shot. The opponent then can elect to take the shot or give it back. Whoever takes the shot must make a legal hit or the penalty is ball in hand. So there is no reward for missing a ball by 2 diamonds and getting safe. The incoming player can push out of the safety. All around it's a MUCH better game than Texas Express type of rules, in my opinion.

I prefer to play ring game rules. Just go for every shot and try to make a ball. Then you are often just trying to make something happen and get lucky but it's fun trying to find creative ways to run out.

People say that the advent of jump cues make it so that people don't bother to learn to kick. I call BS on this. A player who is serious about their game learns everything they to know to win. To an extent the rules dictate what people focus on though. One foul nine ball teaches people to duck when faced with a tough shot. APA rules reward sloppy play. And so on and so on....blah blah blah. Just tell me the rules and I'll adapt or quit.

John
 
bruin70 said:
i actually don't give a shit, so i'm not angry. i find 9ball extremely boring, so i avoid watching it. and if i play it, it's because it's mindless and takes less mental effort than 14.1.

my logic makes perfect sense. in almost any endeavor,maturity and knowledge is what seperates champions,,,and i'm not just talking about sport. you have actually strengthened my point,,,,,,because a 16 year old won, points to 9ball's easy entry level BECAUSE it has become a game of mindless execution. this is my point exactly.
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I believe that Babe Cranfield ran his first 100 balls at age 14. I agree that the games could be more challenging though. Probelm is we would lose may players and spectators. Don't forget golf also has some very young stars, the difference is that their muscles haven't fully developed yet at age 16. Matching the distance of the pros would be more difficult for them.
 
You misunderstood

bruin70 said:
first off, scott,,,why the derogatory comment starting off???

second,,,that's a terrible analogy,,,,,,, comparing it to companies building a better mousetrap. industry advances through innovation, and hopefully we all benefit. innovation is NEEDED and encouraged, else we'd still be running on steam

pool is just a game. how has 9ball been made BETTER with the jump cue?,,, and you can cc your reply to earl as well.
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Bruin .. It wasn't intended to be derogatory. I am 5'7", and I have
difficulty getting to the right angle on close jump shots, I mean my
tiptoes are only so high ... lol Taller players have an advantage
there. It is therefore easier for them to execute on those close
jump shots. Yes, I have seen shorter players execute well on
closer jump shots, Rafael Martinez for one, but he uses a sidestroke
on jump shots, probably because he is shorter too.

I do not think it is a terrible analogy. It is about logic, how it is
applied, rules, and ethics. Pool is also about innovation especially
when you see an 'out of the woods' fantastic shot.

Jump shots add excitement to the game. I guarantee you that a
crowd will gather to watch someone shoot real good jump shots over
someone just kicking well. They appeal to the non playing crowd
more than kicking does (granted educated poolplayers might prefer
kicking over jump shots). Jump shots are fascinating to the average
railbird. Look at Pele;s bicycle kick in soccer, how it fascinated the
crowd, and how they would go to a game just to see him do one.
It is all about doing the 'impossible' and making the right choices for
doing the impossible. So, what different type of cue do you think
will be the next new thing for Pool? I may even not like new innovations
in Pool, but I know that I have to keep up with them to remain
competitive.
 
onepocketchump said:
...

For those of you that don't know what I am talking about, 2 Foul 9-ball is where the incoming player can push out on any shot. The opponent then can elect to take the shot or give it back. Whoever takes the shot must make a legal hit or the penalty is ball in hand. So there is no reward for missing a ball by 2 diamonds and getting safe. The incoming player can push out of the safety. All around it's a MUCH better game than Texas Express type of rules, in my opinion.
...
John
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I have never played, but have heard of this set of rules. IMO, I would much prefer it was still played that way.
 
yep onepocketchump i grew up learning this game playing 2 foul and i loved and still love it as we get a friendly $2 ring game goign and have a blast playing this way. But I get no bigger thrill than to get a guy on 3Shot foul winner i have learned to play alot more safe in 1 shot but you have its jsut a diffrent game and i would LOVE to go play in a 2shot foul tourny but god the player meeting would have to be 3 hours before the start to explain the rules to most people nowadays ahahaha .

but like the Dinosaurs pool must change and grow with the new ages or Die like they did .
 
Snapshot9 said:
Bruin .,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jump shots add excitement to the game. I guarantee you that a
crowd will gather to watch someone shoot real good jump shots over
someone just kicking well. They appeal to the non playing crowd
more than kicking does (granted educated poolplayers might prefer
kicking over jump shots). Jump shots are fascinating to the average
railbird. Look at Pele;s bicycle kick in soccer, how it fascinated the
crowd, and how they would go to a game just to see him do one.
It is all about doing the 'impossible' and making the right choices for
doing the impossible. So, what different type of cue do you think
will be the next new thing for Pool? I may even not like new innovations
in Pool, but I know that I have to keep up with them to remain
competitive.
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i totally agree about the jump shots fascination with the general public. for me, it only looks good when a ball is pocketed. but i don't think it has made the game intrinsicly "better". nor is the jump shot enough to grab the public.
 
your golf analogy doesn't hold water

jbell said:
So not to drag this out to far but i mean GOLFERS use what 12,13 clubs to play their game then why cant pool just accept the fact that if a player can use a jump cue and afford it why cant he play with it. I would love to see all the golfers told " NO NO NO Sir you can only bring 2 clubs on this course" I think they would freak. .
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Uhhh, cloth doesn't grow back as well as grass, perhaps.


Even if you don't touch the cloth with your cue it mars the cloth.
 
jbell said:
yep onepocketchump i grew up learning this game playing 2 foul and i loved and still love it as we get a friendly $2 ring game goign and have a blast playing this way.
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You play ring games two shot shoot out? I guess if its only for two bucks it doesn't make much difference but for a fair amount I don't think I would. We always play honest attempt. If you don't hit the ball then you get to shoot again but thats' up to the incomming player.

Imagine my supprise, I left the game for a few years, when I started back WHOA what is this crap. Like John said its a game of duck and hide. Man, this was when it first started. A lot of players won't take a shot if it was the least bit risky. I still like the old game better but its a dead horse now.

As far as jump cues go, yes I have one. It doesn't come out very often but I do use once in a while. I jump pretty good even though its a rare occasion I practice with it. I'd rather use a full cue but that's not always possible as you know.

Rod
 
I am only 20 years old and haven't been playing 9 ball that long (probably about 6 months) but I can honestly say that the jump cue has changed and helped my game immensely so as far as I am concerned I don't see them as a hinderance more of a help.

What I will say however is that I respect those players who would rather not have them used because after being in this situation myself during a game it has now forced me to learn every facet of the game from kicking to banking and jumping which I am greatful for because now I have an all round shot repertoire.
 
jumper

The way it is in Australia, is that a lot of players play snooker, and come across to pool- so when you crack out the jump cue and get out of one of there cheap attempts at a saftey, they blow up.

they often say " thats bullshit, you cant use them in snooker, why should you use them here"

My answer "yeah? then piss of back to the snooker table- this is pool!!"
 
Do you remember ...

Back to 2 shot out in 9 ball (and I loved it BTW) when
your opponent would roll behind an object ball and you
would deny the shot, and then they jumped the object
ball with full cue and made the shot! I do, and it happened
to me quite a few times. That was when I had not learned
to jump balls at all, full cue or not.

I did not see that as being completely 'fair' at the time, but
it was. See my point? If it is part of the rules and considered
a legal shot by the rules, then you have to learn how to do it
to remain competitive. ALL OF THESE SITUATIONS DID NOT
JUST COME INTO BEING WITH TE LATEST RULES OR WITH THE
JUMP CUE. (Back before jump cues, guys use to jump balls with
only the shaft sometimes)

To a certain extent, these situations can also be applied to when
someone performs a great masse' shot. You may not think it is
fair, but it is within the rules.
 
the scorpion said:
I am only 20 years old and haven't been playing 9 ball that long (probably about 6 months) but I can honestly say that the jump cue has changed and helped my game immensely so as far as I am concerned I don't see them as a hinderance more of a help.

What I will say however is that I respect those players who would rather not have them used because after being in this situation myself during a game it has now forced me to learn every facet of the game from kicking to banking and jumping which I am greatful for because now I have an all round shot repertoire.
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And you are very wise and experienced at this age.

John
 
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