Why Do The Best Players Make The Worse Teachers?

Cannonball55

Cannonball55

This is cool
Silver Member
Hi,

Now, don't get me wrong there are exceptions to this . Some players have the ability to teach and communicate effectively enough to make good instructors/teachers but from what i have found, the top players are'nt necesarily the top instructors ...

I think teaching is an art in and of itself, I guess if it was so easy Efren would be the most sought out Pool Instructor in the world ...

Another thing to consider is that many pool players, especially old school players come from the school of hard knocks . They are'nt breaking their necks to give up information. Some see it is as against the code to share too much information with younger or inexperienced players, after all the less you know, the easier mark you are .... Right?

Even today if you ask many old school players how to shoot a shot, they will give you a very vague answer ( if any answer at all ) or a "son, get outta here " look. It's as if unlocking the secret vault of information is prohibited ....

Just wondering what your thoughts are about this
 
i think its hard for some great players to teach others because they have so much natural talent and that is something you cannot teach. they see and execute some shots differently and not everyone can do as they do. jmo.
 
it's not because players have so much 'natural talent' which cannot be taught. 'natural talent' is overrated anyway and cannot be quantified.

it's because a lot of players don't particularly care to learn the hows and why's behind the way things are done, they just do it. it's not necessarilly a bad thing, it's just the way it is. me personally I am the complete opposite - i like to understand everything in detail, so imo i have a better knowledge of it. and surprise surprise lol, my career aspiration is to become a school teacher!
 
Top players may be better at discussing strategies and game theories of how to win, but are not who you should go to learn how to hold and stroke a cue or learn how to aim and pocket balls. I learned fundamentals by copying good players. Others learn from BCA instructors.

One exception that I know of, and this is an unsolicited and unbiased plug, but Hillbilly is good at communicating the fundamentals better than any top player I have heard of trying to do the same.
 
Teaching is a skill in of itself.

Not everyone can convey knowledge effectively. Furthermore some personalities are not compatable with teaching. You need to be very patient, not all students will be prodigies, in fact I would say most are the opposite.
 
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Someone once asked Luther Lassiter for a lesson and Luther said, "I can't teach you anything because I don't know what I'm doing!"

My guess is that Lassiter was never interested in dissecting the various aspects of the game. His mind and body knew what to do and he just kept doing it.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Teaching is a skill in of itself.

Not everyone can convey knowledge effectively. Furthermore some personalities are not compatable of teaching. You need to be very patient, not all students will be prodigies, in fact I would say most are the opposite.
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Well said. I've been a trainer in several jobs, whether in restaraunts, as a flight instructor, a training manager, and currently a firearms trainer.

www.TrainHardWinEasy.com

Just becase you've learned a particular activity doesn't mean you have the foggiest idea how to teach it. A good instructor can change teaching styles to get the message across to more than one learning type.

Objectively I can say I am a good shooter, computers decided that based on performance. However I pride myself in being even a better teacher than I am a shooter.

To find a good teacher, find out how well his students do, that's the measure. Are they all the same? Little xerox copies of him? Are they all the same learning style? Age? Sex? Etc, Etc.

Can the teacher get someone to his level and beyond?

Can he teach advanced concepts / applications or just regurgitate fundamentals like any garden variety hack?

A good teacher takes what he knows, examines it and re-learns it, in detail so he can explain it 1000 different ways to 100 different learning styles, and his measure of success is not how well he does, but how well his teachings get through to his students.
 
There are two reasons IMO why you'll find that great players might not necessarily make for great instructors.

(1) They lack the proper communication skills to convey what they do to the student in a way which THAT PARTICULAR STUDENT can understand. Everyone learns in a different way, and as an instructor/teacher, if you cannot tailor your style of instruction to match their learning style, you are going to be largely ineffective as an instructor. Having said that, there are top players who DO have the ability to instruct at a high level. But I'll get into why they are in #2.

(2) Many top players are "feel" players. They know that if a shot feels this way when they shoot it, they made it. They instinctually know where to hit the cueball to get a desired result. They can do all of these things from "feel". However, you can't teach "feel". It's something that is either learned through trial and error by the particular individual, or it is something that one is born with. (i.e. natural aptitude). If someone is a feel player, they literally might not have ANY idea how they got a desired result. They just know how the shot feels when they hit it like they did, and know to hit it like that again when it comes up. This is why the are unable to instruct much of the time. Because they literally don't know what's going on. Players who are versed in systems and the why and how's of the game generally have more success as instructors because they can explain concepts to the students if need be. But that's also asking if they are capable of communicating effectively. (also goes back to the communication aspect of it)

Just my $.02...for what it's worth of course.

(that and a $1.50 at IHOP will get you a cup of coffee)
 
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Teaching and playing not the same

Cameron Smith said:
Teaching is a skill in of itself.

Not everyone can convey knowledge effectively. Furthermore some personalities are not compatable with teaching. You need to be very patient, not all students will be prodigies, in fact I would say most are the opposite.
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It's just the same as in sports. When I lived at the Olympic Training Center, there were athletes who were incredibly talented at what they did. Their main concern was focused on performance which means they were focused on themselves, and not interested in someone else. Any high achiever or high performance athlete is programmed to function in an incredibly direct manner and that is the manner of winning.

Teachers and instructors on the other hand, have a totally unselfish interest that is motivated by seeing the pupil grow and become a totally new person. Most top players with the exception of Buddy Hall and even Earl Strickland could care less about helping anyone but themselves. I believe they view their ability to be in an elite class and floated to that level via determination and persistence. In their mind, they view the non-able to be unworthy and don't see why they should waste their time giving away something that took them so long to achieve. Top performers would never give the next guy an opportunity to beat them unless it was someone who was deserving of that information. I mean someone who came in day after day, busting his ass to practice and show his determination to become a truly great player dedicated to the game because he loves what he does.

Teaching is a true craft though. You really have to be interested in holding someone else by the hand and being there for them when they need you. You should be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to see them through to their goal. You should be a good player, but you don't have to be a pro to teach. There are many instructors out there and even people who are just better than average players who know all sorts of tricks and stuff.

Buddy Hall, at this point in his life, wants to give back, but he does it very selectively. He claims he is responsible for the recent Monica Webb victory and has helped several other deserving up and comers. The weekend of the Shooter's ring game event, he was giving Joey Gray some tips on the break. Joey Gray is one helluva player for a kid at 22. He's probably the best 22 yr old player in the world, and Buddy probably wants to see him flourish. James Walden always seemed to support Gabe when he was coming up too. I have seen top players pick and choose because of whatever reason.

It is the beginning of the new era though, and the person I see out in front is Mika with his new dvd's mastering-pool. they kick a$$.
 
senor said:
Top players may be better at discussing strategies and game theories of how to win, but are not who you should go to learn how to hold and stroke a cue or learn how to aim and pocket balls. I learned fundamentals by copying good players. Others learn from BCA instructors.
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I think that is exactly right. You wouldn't need to go to a top player to learn how to aim or stroke. By the time they're top players it all comes so natural to them they may be impatient with a beginner. And many of them have unorthodox styles that you're better off not learning anyway. How to aim? Well, they just know.

But I think they would be excellent in explaining how they think through a rack of 9-ball, straight pool and especially 1-P.
 
I remember just a couple of weeks ago, someone discounted a Dr. Dave article on pool physics because he "wasn't a great player." In other words, the argument on that thread was you could not teach UNLESS you were a good player.

I wasn't one of those critics. There is a difference between understanding and communicating the principles, and having the coordination to execute. I believe you can do one well without being able to do the other.

I think it might be an over-generalization to say the best players are the worst teachers. Some players might be good teachers.

I understand Allison Fischer teaches. Anyone take one of her courses?
 
Shaft said:
I remember just a couple of weeks ago, someone discounted a Dr. Dave article on pool physics because he "wasn't a great player." In other words, the argument on that thread was you could not teach UNLESS you were a good player.
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Dr. Dave seems to focus mostly on the physics of the game in which case he is more than qualified.

I still believe the most effective instructor is someone who can teach AND execute as they are able to appeal to more learning styles than someone who can barely play. Furthermore it's easier to teach someone how to rarely miss, when you know what it's like to rarely miss.

That said, it is an absurd blanket statement to assume that all amateur players can't teach.
 
Just like in golf a descent player with a superb knowledge of the game can teach a top level player something (or at least point out flaws that need to be corrected). There's a fine art of being able to not only be able to identify what someone might be doing wrong but being able to inform someone how to correct the problem is the key. A top pro might be able to demonstrate how a shot should be executed but since every stroke is deferent they might not be able to adapt the lesson to the students game as well as someone who spends all their time teaching (even though they aren't as good at playing).

Some people have a knack for teaching and they are very good at it. Having superior knowledge without the ability to pass it on is common in just about everything.

I think like a previous poster mentioned, some people are better at talking strategy with because it doesn't require them to evaluate a lower players game and correct the fundemental mistakes (these types of players all that fundamentals comes natural).
 
I think the best players focus all their energy on developing their game, to become the best player they can be.

I think the best instructors focus their energy on learning how to be the best instructor they can be.

Different skill sets. Different priorities. Different results.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
I think the best players focus all their energy on developing their game, to become the best player they can be.

I think the best instructors focus their energy on learning how to be the best instructor they can be.

Different skill sets. Different priorities. Different results.

Steve
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I agree. It's extremely difficult to do both well.....SPF=randyg
 
Maybe it's already kind of been said but the simple answer is that there are few great players and there are few great teachers, the odds of being both are slim. Occasionally in pro sports a great player will defy the odds and become a great coach but because there are far more mid-level players the odds are greater that one of them can teach and convey information and they find their niche coaching.
 
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