Why does everybody always knock the APA?

I didn't know people did knock the APA. It's fine for the fun and recreational crowd, and if you're into socializing while waiting up to 3.5 hours to play your match, and if you want to put up with the occasional bullshit from people accusing you of sandbagging or being so pedantic about a win.
 
You know what? I am one of the guilty parties that dog the APA players and the league.
For my girlfriends sake I joined the APA on her league(8ball). I then decided to take it a step further and join her 9ball league. Honestly, it is kinda fun matching up with other teams. I still have my cons about it but for the most part it's fun, a lot of pool time, and you got some kinda pressure on you.
 
ARM9BALLER said:
You know what? I am one of the guilty parties that dog the APA players and the league.
For my girlfriends sake I joined the APA on her league(8ball). I then decided to take it a step further and join her 9ball league. Honestly, it is kinda fun matching up with other teams. I still have my cons about it but for the most part it's fun, a lot of pool time, and you got some kinda pressure on you.
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Hey buddy,

It is definitely more for fun than anything else.
I used to whine all the time about sandbagging until reading what a lot of experienced players here had to say and it has definitely changed my opinion. At least in the way I view it and the fact that even though it may appear someone is sandbagging, they're probably just inconsistent as hell.

I don't know how far you are from Orlando but it looks like I'm heading down there the end of March.

Koop
 
davidhop said:
:confused: I understand that it encourages people to play below their true skill level, but nobody twists your arm and makes you play. I play because it is fun. I don't take it very seriously. Come on, it is pool. It can't be that bad.

Dave-----Just wondering why everytime the APA gets mentioned, someone starts a flaming contest :confused:
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Mostly because of the "23" rule! It penalizes people for improving, causing them to break up their teams and find new players of low handicaps to play with. Then they have to lose on purpose to keep it from happening again! In effect the APA is like a big Pyramid racket, making you split and add players to survive as a team. Then on top of that there is a lot of coruption within the system. Handicaps are not consistant from league to league. People are sometimes raised and/or lowered because of influence on the league bosses! They got their last nickel from me!


just more hot air!

Sherm
 
I just started playing on a 9ball league. It's pretty fun and is nice because I get to play against better players than I. So I can learn. I never played 9ball much because I don't really enjoy the concept of it. It feels like you have to play too much defense. In 8ball when I can't make a shot I try to set MY ball near a pocket so I can get to it later. In 9 ball all I feel that all I am doing is trying to screw the other guy over. It's not as enjoyable to me and I consider myself a better 8ball player than 9. But for league purposes I think 9ball is better.

My only problem with the APA is how you can't push. My first game and first shot I wanted to make it a push. But couldn't. At that point I was disadvantaged because the breaker did not make a ball. So he ended up with ball in hand.

What really bugs me is when I go out to shoot BY MYSELF and people always have to come and ask to play you in some games.
 
davidhop said:
:confused: I understand that it encourages people to play below their true skill level, but nobody twists your arm and makes you play. I play because it is fun. I don't take it very seriously. Come on, it is pool. It can't be that bad.

Dave-----Just wondering why everytime the APA gets mentioned, someone starts a flaming contest :confused:
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I'll tell you why I like to flame the APA. The worst of the worst classes of pool players come out on APA league night. I've seen it not only in my area, but in surrounding states as I've travelled. The majority of them will pull every trick in the book to get a win, and if they don't want a win, they are sandbagging on purpose. Sandbagging is HUGE in the APA, more than any other league. The majority of APA players think they are hot sh1t on a barbox, but ask them to gamble on a barbox *or* a 9-footer and they chicken out. The majority of them will only play pool when they are drunk or slightly buzzed. That's when you see the worst of them come out. The rules in the APA are crap. No pushout on the break in 9-ball, and you can't call 'safe' in 8-ball. It promotes crappy play, and the people that rob the APA tournaments are the shortstops and pro level players that are rated 5's and 6's. And there are even some pros and shortstops that are rated as 4's. That's not bullshit, it's the truth. The APA is crap. The handicap system is ridiculous, and you are really never going to improve more than a ball playing that shitty league. Sorry to all of you APA players, but it's just beyond pathetic. Its a sorry excuse for pool players, and it serves as a vehicle for loudmouths, crybabies, and alcoholics. If you want to learn real pool, go learn the BCA rules. Again, the APA is utter crap. Enjoy your shitty league.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
Again, the APA is utter crap. Enjoy your shitty league.
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:D Man, just tell it like you see it.

Sadly I don't disagree with much of what you say but you are generalizing quite a bit. I've learned to just have fun with it and try to teach new players who express an interest in being taught. Not to mention there are no BCA leagues in my area.

I will say the one and only time I have been to Vegas it left a real bad taste in my mouth. There were going to be two teams from MA in the finals until the league operators raised the handi-caps of a team so that they not only could not play in the finals, they were disqualified. The other team from MA was so hurt by being raised that they could only play 3 guys in the finals which meant if they even lost one it was over.

So basically it is a night out for me and a chance to compete. For real competition I am going to start playing in Open tournaments once in a while. That's how to really learn.

Koop
 
whitewolf said:
But on the flip side Lee has instituted a real system that stops sandbagging in its tracks. The players can write down who they think is sandbaggin and Lee investigates. Usually the offender gets his skill level raised, and as time goes on, if this was unfair, I have seen the offender's SL go back down.
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That idea is everywhere and no just instituted by Lee, even at the National tourneys. Captains are encouraged to evaluate the other players if they are playing above or below their ratings.

I played APA for two years just to hang out with my roommate. I was already skilled at pool before getting into APA so I immediately went up to a 7. The players that I played with are bar players who just like to have fun and not get better. That is fine...for them. To me watching people enjoy bouncing balls around the table for an hour until finally someone "accidentally" wins is a waste of my life and money. Pay out the $6/night and not see any back unless you get to the local regioanl qualifiers...and then it is not as much as you paid in. I now play BCA with some of the best players around and we all strive to get better. We challenge each other competing for the most Breaknruns, best overall record, etc. That is what breeds good pool players.
 
My .02

I have played all 3:

1) BCA is the best. Best handicapping system. Best play. Exemplifies
what getting better at Pool is all about.
2) VNEA (Valley) is next best. Better than APA because of more finite
handicapping system, but not a whole lot. Sandbagging and stacking
teams still occurs, but no silly limit rule for teams handicaps.
3) APA is the worst. Handicapping system is antiquated, which creates
sandbagging just to exist. Limits competition levels because of 23 rule.
Hard to have a good team when 2 7's have to go find a 3 and 4 to
play with them on a team.
 
ok

everyone has? I don't think I ever did, but I know what you're saying. there are good and there are bad leagues to play in. personally, I play in a "VNEA" league 2 nights a week. we have a state tournament here in march, and things generally run pretty smoothly. I know the guys in charge of running it, and they never really complain about anything. our "bad" league is called the "romeo" league, but they do pay more money than the "vnea" when you win...you just have to deal with playing BAD players. if a good team enters this league, they generally run off with it. I've only played 1-2 years in this league, and won almost every time. it's pretty pathetic. where is the competition? I like to win, but not "run away with it". if you're in a league, you should have SOME idea of what you're doing...otherwise, stay out and learn the game first. winning without competition is just boring.;) :D :D
 
Lol some of this is funny. "The worst of the worst classes of pool players come out on APA league night. I've seen it not only in my area, but in surrounding states as I've travelled." Maybe you are in the worst of the worst area of the U.S.
I play in the APA and just wanted to give my 02. First of all my division is on all 9 footers. We dont wait around to play all night, we have what is called a practice table, hmm. In about 6-7 years Ive never seen anyone drunk and obnoxious, just obnoxious yes, but for the most part we show up to play and win. We play at nice pool halls not some redneck hole in the wall bar with 1 or 2 bar tables with beer stains like some of the people here complaining might be use to. Yes there are a few crappy places in Connecticut like everywhere.
Handicap- Ive just personally could care less if I play a seven or a 3. I like the challenge of a player a better obviously, it brings my game up. If I play a lower handicap its taught me to try to stay focused and really brought my kicks and banks up because of the poor position Im left with occasionally. How much fun would baseball be if All star type players were on the field against your high school team. Not fair to field a team that way hence the 23 rule. Well its ok for the Yankees lol j.k.
Slop works for the pros why not the APA. If a pro shoots and hits the lowest number ball first and misses the pocket but knocks in another ball(9ball) , uhhh it counts. Just have to suck it up and drive on junior.
-Cant call safe? Be creative, dont call it just do it, legally. Dont have a shot after the break, hmm PLAY D. Hit your ball and carom the Q behind another of your balls. Its not rocket science.
- I play safe by pocketing balls a lot. If opponent is blocking a pocket you need, and is a lower handicap make his ball in and leave yours in front of the hole.
I think its called Amatuer Pool for a reason but if you play you should take it serious enough to compete weekly and make the best of it, pull out all your weapons to become an all around player not a slopper. If you think your better than an amIve defenitly agree with some of you about the politics of the league. Im not a pro, and (shocker, reality check) a lot of us here arent, I have a job so I play in the league during the week and play and do drills on the weekend if time permits.
-Im not retired with all the time in the world to practice and play in tourneys that are out of state or that run till 3 am. I just enjoy playing.
Sorry for the babbling running on 3 hrs sleep,Just wanted to stick up for the one sided bashing.
 
ATM said:
Lol some of this is funny. "The worst of the worst classes of pool players come out on APA league night. I've seen it not only in my area, but in surrounding states as I've travelled." Maybe you are in the worst of the worst area of the U.S.
I play in the APA and just wanted to give my 02. First of all my division is on all 9 footers. We dont wait around to play all night, we have what is called a practice table, hmm. In about 6-7 years Ive never seen anyone drunk and obnoxious, just obnoxious yes, but for the most part we show up to play and win. We play at nice pool halls not some redneck hole in the wall bar with 1 or 2 bar tables with beer stains like some of the people here complaining might be use to. Yes there are a few crappy places in Connecticut like everywhere.
Handicap- Ive just personally could care less if I play a seven or a 3. I like the challenge of a player a better obviously, it brings my game up. If I play a lower handicap its taught me to try to stay focused and really brought my kicks and banks up because of the poor position Im left with occasionally. How much fun would baseball be if All star type players were on the field against your high school team. Not fair to field a team that way hence the 23 rule. Well its ok for the Yankees lol j.k.
Slop works for the pros why not the APA. If a pro shoots and hits the lowest number ball first and misses the pocket but knocks in another ball(9ball) , uhhh it counts. Just have to suck it up and drive on junior.
-Cant call safe? Be creative, dont call it just do it, legally. Dont have a shot after the break, hmm PLAY D. Hit your ball and carom the Q behind another of your balls. Its not rocket science.
- I play safe by pocketing balls a lot. If opponent is blocking a pocket you need, and is a lower handicap make his ball in and leave yours in front of the hole.
I think its called Amatuer Pool for a reason but if you play you should take it serious enough to compete weekly and make the best of it, pull out all your weapons to become an all around player not a slopper. If you think your better than an amIve defenitly agree with some of you about the politics of the league. Im not a pro, and (shocker, reality check) a lot of us here arent, I have a job so I play in the league during the week and play and do drills on the weekend if time permits.
-Im not retired with all the time in the world to practice and play in tourneys that are out of state or that run till 3 am. I just enjoy playing.
Sorry for the babbling running on 3 hrs sleep,Just wanted to stick up for the one sided bashing.
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tap, tap, tap. its a fun night out with friends playing pool, period. Do some of the complaints listed by other exist? well yeah, to some extent, but i've personally not seen the drunks or obnoxious players as a rule and most of the sandbagging complaints are sour grapes by players after losing to someone they "shouldn't" have lost to. Hell, even the pros get hot and cold.

In our division the side table(s) are busy all night and even when i don't play a match i can still play all night if i choose.

Try it, if its not your thing at least you'll know from your own experience in your own area.
 
APA Masters?

Hi all,

I have gotten back into pool after a few years off and started playing in the APA 8 ball. (Of note is that in my area the game is played in pool halls on 9' tables, mostly GC's and Diamonds.). The regular league is ok but has all the drawbacks you guys have allready addressed. I, like others on here, am ranked a 7 and I hate getting stuck shooting a race of 6 to 2 against a banger(although it does make me focus more).

I then discovered the APA masters format. Now I love this! Its a race to 7 heads up, (i.e. no handicap),only 6s or 7s are supposidly allowed to play, and the game is a combination of 8 ball (up to 5 games) and 9 ball (up to 8 games). 8 ball is call pocket and 9 ball is tex exp. type rules. you can use a jump cue if you like and can push out.

This is a very challegning format and one I would highly recommend. We have very good players in this format and its one that at least here, (Raleigh NC area), you can learn from and improve your game.

Do you guys have the masters format in your area? if so, I would recommend that you try it.

Regards

Vee

PS, were's a check speller when you need one.
 
I play two leagues in my area, APA, and TAP.

I see the APA as the "B" division, where TAP is the "A" division. I am a SL5 in APA, and SL3 in TAP.

That means I am the upper mid level shooter for APA, where I am entry level for TAP.

Some people must realize that guys like me starting playing their first games in APA. I was a horrible SL2 when I started out. I never shot before, but the league allowed me to grow by shooting like skill level shooters.

If I started in TAP (or BCA for example) I would have likely become quickly frustrated, and may have bailed quickly. You may have never even read this post from me, imagine that!
 
Apa

The APA gave me a great introduction into pool in the US, and I still play every Wednesday night. For most of my APA career, I was very competitive, but now I've done the APA Vegas grand slam (Team 8-ball, Team 9-ball, 8-ball singles, 9-ball singles), I'm happy to play for fun and help others. The only drawback is that some regular League matches can take up to six hours to complete. However, now we have one division that takes place in a pool hall, we can do two tables at one time and be done by 10:30pm.
 
They knock it because ...

1) The rules it has
2) The handicapping system it uses.

It's handicapping system has the least number of possible handicaps, which, in turn, results in the most sandbagging.

Compare it to BCA (from 1 to 75 for 8 ball - 5 man, 60 for 4 man)
or to the VNEA (from 1 to 13 in my region for 8 ball)

The more finite the handicaps are, the more accurate they rate any player,
which when teams are spotted (or handicapped) results in truer competiion between those teams.

For example, for every increment of handicap in APA, there would be
almost 11 in 5 man BCA. So, in APA, you could have 2 6's, where in the
BCA, one might be a 44 and the other a 53, BIG DIFFERENCE in skill levels,
but you would not know that from APA classifications.
I have played APA, BCA, BCA advanced, VNEA, VNEA advanced, plus
city leagues. BCA is the best, VNEA (Valley) is next, APA is the worst
of the lot.
 
It has its PROs and CONs

Like most things in life you can't please everyone. I cut my teeth in the APA, and loved the team portion and the Vegas trips. I moved up north (WAY UP NORTH) and they didn't have APA, so I had to play BCA and VNEA. I still liked the league play so i joined the VNEA, it was fun except we had a few teams that you just were not going to beat (one in particular had 3 of 4 players that were BCA master level) and they had been playing together for 15 years or so. I do like the APA skill level 23 per team aspect. I really appreciate the APA scoring in 9Ball way better than BCA, but I like the BCA 8 ball rules better that the APA's 8ball rules. I still like the game format of the APA better than that of the BCA in any game. I hate playing a lesser level player in BCA in a race to 2, if they pound a cluster and crap the 9 in we split, and that burns me up. I would clean them up in a longer race to 5 or 7, or in the points race let them crap in a 9 now and then, I know I will take them out over the race to my point number.
 
I have to say,.. I really like the APA. It's helped my game and I love the team atmosphere. I play 9 ball, with a great bunch of Guys and Gals. We all try to help one another. It's really changed my attitude too. I was always into single type sports. My main love being Tennis. But now that I'm doing the team sport, it has really grown on me.

So I give the APA and thumbs up.
 
vgodley1 said:
Hi all,

I have gotten back into pool after a few years off and started playing in the APA 8 ball. (Of note is that in my area the game is played in pool halls on 9' tables, mostly GC's and Diamonds.). The regular league is ok but has all the drawbacks you guys have allready addressed. I, like others on here, am ranked a 7 and I hate getting stuck shooting a race of 6 to 2 against a banger(although it does make me focus more).

I then discovered the APA masters format. Now I love this! Its a race to 7 heads up, (i.e. no handicap),only 6s or 7s are supposidly allowed to play, and the game is a combination of 8 ball (up to 5 games) and 9 ball (up to 8 games). 8 ball is call pocket and 9 ball is tex exp. type rules. you can use a jump cue if you like and can push out.

This is a very challegning format and one I would highly recommend. We have very good players in this format and its one that at least here, (Raleigh NC area), you can learn from and improve your game.

Do you guys have the masters format in your area? if so, I would recommend that you try it.

Regards

Vee

PS, were's a check speller when you need one.
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Good information for those who think APA is only for bangers. There are some pretty sporty players who play APA Masters. In the Raleigh area, there's Robert Ray (runner-up, 2005 Masters in Chesapeake), Johnny Griffin (reigning Fury tour champ), Jimmy Faircloth, Greg Wilson (former Canadian 8 ball champion), Steve Lee (multiple high finishes at the US Amateur), etc. Oh yeah, lil ole me plays Masters, too. Some other notable Masters players? Jason Kirkwood (if you don't know who he is, check him out, he's a great player), Brandon Ashcraft (UPA Touring Pro, new IPT member), Ike Runnels, etc.

Just one correction - ANYONE can play APA Masters, there's no limitation on handicap. A SL2 can play Masters if she wants. Another quick note is that while here in Raleigh, 8 ball is called shot, jump cues are allowed, and most of us play on 9-footers; in Vegas, 8 ball is slop counts, jump cues aren't allowed, and barboxes are used. Also, in Vegas, the winner of the lag gets to choose EITHER the break or the game, but not both. Other than that, Nationals are just like the local rules in Raleigh.

If anyone would like to play APA Masters, but it isn't in your area, find your league operator and let him know. APA Masters as a league format is relatively new, so it may not be in your area yet. If anyone is truly interested and can't find a LO, feel free to PM me - I may be able to get you in touch with the right people to get APA Masters started in your area.

-djb

PS Do I know you, vgodley1?
 
APA Masters does sound interesting. The regular APA format is not my cup of tea though.
 
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