Why I only buy cues in person.

TheCueHunter said:
This way of doing business may work with silverware and cats, but it's hard with cues and here's why.

The market is tough right now....I list a cue (top maker) at a steal of a price.

I get 4 pms saying "I'll take it!" Fr full price....I sell to the first guy who replied. I tell the other three "sorry" cue sold. I ship it to the guy after getting payment, and the guy HATES the way it plays.

He wants to return it. The cue was as described, but just plays bad to him (subjective).

Well, because HE knows hits are subjective, instead of telling me that in order for me to take the return, he tells me that the cue has some "issue" other than it just plays bad.

I take it back.

I relist it on AZ.....everyone and there Mom, knows the cue just sold. I contact the three other people who said they would take it and now they say "hell no, cause obviously something is wrong with it"

I say nope, the guy just hates the the way it plays lol. NOW NO ONE will ever buy it.

So am I know stuck forever with the cue cause I was offering a satisfaction guarantee?

It is rocket science on here to some.

This has happened to me and many others....I'm not short sighted, but I know buyers remorse, and I know when the guy hates the way a cue plays, but yet makes up some other reason for me to take it back.

Funny is this only happens when I list a cheapy cue I take in trying to help somebody out.....NEVER on a 2k plus deal. This happens even when the payment is credit card backed by paypal from his neighbors moms, cousins, uncles, sister in laws second cousins great uncle.
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That sounds like a bad experience sorry you are having it.

Yup hits are subjective, so are descriptive terms that describe condition. I accept returns for any reason and that saves my buyers from having to lie to me (not that that stops them anyway). Life is too short to spend much time arguing with a guy about subjective evaluation, or trying to stuff a cue he doesn't like down some guys throat because its "as described". Take it back and sell it to someone that does want it.

In my experience taking things in return, including a few cues, some I resell for more, some go for less, but it all seems to come out even in the end.

I'm not sure I know what the solution is. If you stop offering a satisfaction guarantee, I would think that would also cost you money as you would lose some number of your perspective buyers.

Thanks

Kevin
 
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EasyEJL said:
outside of a cue not being straight, for a given brand/model of cue how exactly is it going to "play" differently than any other cue of that brand/model?

Anyone can answer this one, I just honestly can't see how 2 different McDermott TC1s with the same weight, original shaft and straight will play different. Beyond that, I can't say I've ever gotten a real feel for a cue in the first rack or two shooting with it either and I've never gone for a cue deal where I ended up playing for a couple hours against other people with it beforehand.
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Custom cue makers can make a cue the same weight, with all sorts of differences.
It would also be nice to know what the balance is, how it hits, thickness of the handle area, shaft taper, etc etc.
There is a whole bunch of stuff that people are picky about.
Plus what if it's a new brand to you, that you've never ever played with before? You don't see any value in seeing if you like the way it plays before buying it?
I can tell if i like the way a cue plays in about 5 to 15 shots.

That's why Super Billiards Expo is so great, at a couple of shows, they had a pool table right smack in the middle of the cue displays, and if you wanted to see how a cue hit, some would allow you to go hit a couple of balls there.

Also, not all wood is created equal.
Just because it might be the same model cue from a manufacturer, does not mean that they will automatically play the same way.

That has to do with wood harmonics and the vibration that goes through the wood at either the same or different frequencies, and the feedback that gives.
Believe me, 2 hunks of the same type of wood, can play completely different, even if they are made the exact same way.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Custom cue makers can make a cue the same weight, with all sorts of differences.
It would also be nice to know what the balance is, how it hits, thickness of the handle area, shaft taper, etc etc.
There is a whole bunch of stuff that people are picky about.
Plus what if it's a new brand to you, that you've never ever played with before? You don't see any value in seeing if you like the way it plays before buying it?
I can tell if i like the way a cue plays in about 5 to 15 shots.

That's why Super Billiards Expo is so great, at a couple of shows, they had a pool table right smack in the middle of the cue displays, and if you wanted to see how a cue hit, some would allow you to go hit a couple of balls there.

Also, not all wood is created equal.
Just because it might be the same model cue from a manufacturer, does not mean that they will automatically play the same way.

That has to do with wood harmonics and the vibration that goes through the wood at either the same or different frequencies, and the feedback that gives.
Believe me, 2 hunks of the same type of wood, can play completely different, even if they are made the exact same way.
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Yeah I'm with you here. For me, if I'm buying a cue as a player, I really want to buy it used (with a satisfaction guarantee and evaluation period) because I do want to be able to test it. It sorta doesn't work that great for me because I have a dose of "new cue syndrome" and almost all new cues work great for me. My theory is having my mind on the differences in feel on the cue takes them out of my normal mind-set (which for me unfortunately is a GOOD thing).

Ernie Gutierrez is a good friend of mine and he claims all his cues feel the same, but I play Ginas and that has not been my experience.

Kevin
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Plus what if it's a new brand to you, that you've never ever played with before? You don't see any value in seeing if you like the way it plays before buying it?
I can tell if i like the way a cue plays in about 5 to 15 shots.
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overall I agree with you, except for this. I honestly can't tell if I like a cue that quickly. Picked up one with a leather wrap, and it took at least a few hours of playing before I decided it was a worthwhile purchase and that I liked leather wraps. Didn't have much to do with how the cue "shot" itself, but more my comfort with it. Even with others cues how I feel after that few shots doesn't really tell me much about how I'll shoot with it in a match. Maybe I've just never shot with a crappy cue though :D in that I've never shot with one that after a few shots I thought "oh no way I could win with this"
 
kvinbrwr said:
jjollie

OK, now you've bought your 5 figure cue and you are all ready to fly back home with it. What are you going to do? Accept the Airline's maximum coverage of $3300 (which they will NEVER pay you) and hand that cue over at the baggage counter and watch them toss in on the belt with a couple of suitcases on top?

Thanks

Kevin
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Now that shows you what I know of buying five figure cues...never thought about that! Thanks for the info Kevin. I learn something new everyday...

jjollie
 
jjollie said:
Now that shows you what I know of buying five figure cues...never thought about that! Thanks for the info Kevin. I learn something new everyday...

jjollie
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jjollie

Hopefully you would have considered that BEFORE flying to some distant state and then found yourself at the ticket counter being told you will have to check that treasure. I've heard of guys that didn't.

Kevin
 
EasyEJL said:
outside of a cue not being straight, for a given brand/model of cue how exactly is it going to "play" differently than any other cue of that brand/model?

Anyone can answer this one, I just honestly can't see how 2 different McDermott TC1s with the same weight, original shaft and straight will play different. Beyond that, I can't say I've ever gotten a real feel for a cue in the first rack or two shooting with it either and I've never gone for a cue deal where I ended up playing for a couple hours against other people with it beforehand.
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no 2 cues play exactly the same. dont take this wrong way, but you need to play a few more months/years and then you will most likely see what i'm talking about. Experience will teach you this, in time you discover that even if all the weight, dimensions, taper, materials are the same-no 2 pieces of wood are and when you add a forearm, handle and shaft. Those 3 pieces of wood together to make a cue(in most cases) it will be unique. the density, how old the wood is and how it was cared for before it was a cue all play into the hit and feel of a cue.

Took me a very long time to develop the ability to distinguish the subtle but not so subtle differences in cues. And because I lack the talent of a great player I'm super sensitive to cues, where as some great players (Bugs especially) can play with anything, Its my belief the lesser the player(to a extent) the more a cue can make up for their weaknesses. I play the 6 ball behind myself when I change from a cue I can play with to something I cant.its that big-for me. I'm a solid player, most of the time. because i been playing so long i'm very knowledgeable about cues, pool etc. more knowledgeable than I can play :( I'd rather be a stupid champion,


EDIT: oh yeah one other thing price dont mean jack, when it comes to cues, JA plays with a $200 cue, it aint even all that straight, its the least of his concern, i'd guess the facing of the shaft and joint are off a hair, not a construction defect. But for him it works, "It took me 30 years to figure out exactly what taper I have on my shaft that I like best" he continued "I have 2,3,4 shafts built to find one that I like, then I'm set for 6 months to a year". The shafts are all built with the same spec's but he needs that many to find one that he likes, because they all react differently to the impact with the CB. Thats what works for him. And just as a coincidence I happen to like the hit of his cue as well. Corey has used the same Jacoby for years and it too plays great for me. Mike Deschane's cue(s) are wrapless cues I cant stand. point is price, looks dont matter when it comes to a player. The past few years i been playing with a very expensive cue, not because I wanted to. I just happened on it and It brings the best out of me. I'd perfer if it wasnt so decorated(fancy). I love cues and to collect a few fancy cues is cool, but a cue that plays good is more important.
 
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Most of the sellers that I deal with offer a full refund, if for any reason I don't like the cue. It's a win-win for me with no risk for me. Just one time, I didn't like the feel of the cue and even though I loved the colors in pics, it didn't appeal to me in person. No problem!

These same sellers, I know, have only the best quality cues and so I know there will never be a problem in that way.

KP
 
kvinbrwr said:
jjollie

OK, now you've bought your 5 figure cue and you are all ready to fly back home with it. What are you going to do? Accept the Airline's maximum coverage of $3300 (which they will NEVER pay you) and hand that cue over at the baggage counter and watch them toss in on the belt with a couple of suitcases on top?

Thanks

Kevin
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No, that's when you swing by UPS/FedEx/USPS and overnight it to yourself before you get on the plane.

Edit: Not that I can afford, or will ever be able to afford, a five figure cue...lol.
 
zeeder said:
No, that's when you swing by UPS/FedEx/USPS and overnight it to yourself before you get on the plane.

Edit: Not that I can afford, or will ever be able to afford, a five figure cue...lol.
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Problem with overnight if you go USPS is Express has a 5K insurance limit. In order to get higher coverage you have to go Registered Mail which at best will travel Priority Mail speed (actually a little slower as it has to be signed for each step of the way). Even at that, IMO, that's the way to go with a 5 figure cue, USPS Registered Mail.

Thanks

Kevin
 
peterskw said:
Most of the sellers that I deal with offer a full refund, if for any reason I don't like the cue. It's a win-win for me with no risk for me. Just one time, I didn't like the feel of the cue and even though I loved the colors in pics, it didn't appeal to me in person. No problem!

These same sellers, I know, have only the best quality cues and so I know there will never be a problem in that way.

KP
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KP

Right. Plus I think that ease you feel as a buyer also benefits the seller as he has now brought you to the table.

Thanks

Kevin
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Two words: Escrow

Wait that was one word but you get my point.
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How does escrow help the buyer who is interested in evaluating how a cue feels in his hands? Which is, after all, what cues are for in most instances.

Kevin
 
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I always offer a satisfaction guarantee....always have always will.....my point is its not bullet proof, and people still try to take advantage of you...

I am not going to send the guy an UNCHALKED Showman, let him play with it for a week. Blue up a shaft, and then send it back saying it wasn't as described. When I know he just didnt like the way it played.

Ten I try to resell it and all the detectives here wonder what happen?, think there's something wrong with the cue, think it plays bad, think its defective, thinks it has cat hair on it or whatever......and that DOES NOT even out.
 
TheCueHunter said:
I always offer a satisfaction guarantee....always have always will.....my point is its not bullet proof, and people still try to take advantage of you...

I am not going to send the guy an UNCHALKED Showman, let him play with it for a week. Blue up a shaft, and then send it back saying it wasn't as described. When I know he just didnt like the way it played.

Ten I try to resell it and all the detectives here wonder what happen?, think there's something wrong with the cue, think it plays bad, think its defective, thinks it has cat hair on it or whatever......and that DOES NOT even out.
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Yup, any guarantee in fairness to the seller, states the return has to be in sent condition. If you are selling an unplayed cue the evaluation can only be to build and finish, no buyer should expect a seller to sell an unplayed cue and take back a played one. Just to be on the safe side, I spell that out to my buyers on unused items. I think communication is key in sales.

As far as buyer trying to take advantage of sellers, sure that's the case sometimes, just as its sometimes the case that sellers try to take advantage of buyers. My experience has been that most people are pretty fair both as buyers and sellers and when I find one that I feel isn't trying to be fair, I try to wrap up my business with them as quickly as possible and move on to the next.

I guess wishing people were different, or trying to teach them to be different, are options, but I've personally never had huge luck with either.

Thanks

Kevin
 
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kvinbrwr said:
How does escrow help the buyer who is interested in evaluating how a cue feels in his hands? Which is, after all, what cues are for in most instances.

Kevin
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Forgive me I didn't read the entire thread and was replying to the original post. It seemed to me the big concern he had is getting ripped off... not testing the cue before he buys it. Now I see the direction this topic has taken.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Forgive me I didn't read the entire thread and was replying to the original post. It seemed to me the big concern he had is getting ripped off... not testing the cue before he buys it. Now I see the direction this topic has taken.
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Nothing to forgive, you for sure have a right to respond to the OP's original thought.

Thanks

Kevin
 
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