Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

billiardchick7 said:
Everyone wants entertainment....A place to go to enjoy hanging out with other people and/or to do the activities that we love. We usually only have a very limited number of choices depending on the businesses available in our area. Since this is a pool forum, I assume most of the people here love pool. In many areas, there is only either smoking establishments or non-smoking pool establishments. The ones that are all non-smoking in the area are usually regulated to be that way by the government. As a business owner in an area that is not regulated by a government smoking ban, the pool rooms and bars all allow smoking. It is a scary thing for a business to go outside of the norm and make changes not knowing how it will affect the business. We decided to change and go non-smoking, and our business have been very positively affected. It is doing GREAT!!!! People in our area actually have a choice; they can chose to come to our place or to go elsewhere that allows smoking, but not everyone has that option.
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Wait a second.....so you mean you saw a need in your local market for a non-smoking pool hall, and filled the need? And now business is doing good and customers have a choice?!?

Sweet Jesus, 235 years after Adam Smith published Wealth Of Nations, we've got another shining example that the whole "free market system" concept actually works. It's a shame so many people don't get it! :)
 
Paul Schofield said:
Your right. I will reword it. I did mean to say: When I started this thread, I was expecting good info from experienced room owners and enthusiasts.
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You may have been expecting info, but the current edited version of your original post doesn't ask for input. Reading it again it (still) appears simply a rant about a highly emotional topic that (shockingly) took on a life of its own.

Were you hoping for page after page of commiseration from like minded people? Maybe you should have said "only those who lost their pool room need reply." You could have later edited it to also open it up for "enthusiasts who are lamenting their hindered ability to serve their master".

Forums are a great place to stir the pot with generalized opinions about emotional topics, but you shouldn't get too bent at what bubbles to the top.

If I misunderstand your intention and you are actually looking for input, then I suggest you ask your customers what they think rather than trying to target people who will say what you want to hear. Your original post (and subsequent ones) are very leading in that regard.

As a pool player, I am not here for the pool room owners convenience. If I don't like what you offer I will take my money to someone who does. Pool room owners will either get that or they won't.

IMO your statement is correct and pivotal:

Paul Schofield said:
...our poolrooms are built to serve this group.
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Where the group in question is the lowest economic demographic. Despite the incoherent logic of a very vocal group suffering withdrawal, the problem with pool isn't the alienation of this group. Rather it is the mindset that this group is the only customer which matters.
 
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tedzap said:
If I misunderstand your intention and you are actually looking for input, then I suggest you ask your customers what they think rather than trying to target people who will say what you want to hear. Your original post (and subsequent ones) are very leading in that regard.
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I am asking room owners what they are doing. I am asking enthusiasts what their local room is doing to appeal to the non-smoking demographic.

Good stuff from St. Louis, Northern Alabama, and New Zealand.
 
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tedzap said:
Where the group in question is the lowest economic demographic. Despite the incoherent logic of a very vocal group suffering withdrawal, the problem with pool isn't the alienation of this group. Rather it is the mindset that this group is the only customer which matters.
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Brilliant! And I mean that. Green rep... :cool:
 
tedzap said:
You may have been expecting info, but the current edited version of your original post doesn't ask for input. Reading it again it (still) appears simply a rant about a highly emotional topic that (shockingly) took on a life of its own.

Were you hoping for page after page of commiseration from like minded people? Maybe you should have said "only those who lost their pool room need reply." You could have later edited it to also open it up for "enthusiasts who are lamenting their hindered ability to serve their master".

Forums are a great place to stir the pot with generalized opinions about emotional topics, but you shouldn't get too bent at what bubbles to the top.

If I misunderstand your intention and you are actually looking for input, then I suggest you ask your customers what they think rather than trying to target people who will say what you want to hear. Your original post (and subsequent ones) are very leading in that regard.

As a pool player, I am not here for the pool room owners convenience. If I don't like what you offer I will take my money to someone who does. Pool room owners will either get that or they won't.

IMO your statement is correct and pivotal:



Where the group in question is the lowest economic demographic. Despite the incoherent logic of a very vocal group suffering withdrawal, the problem with pool isn't the alienation of this group. Rather it is the mindset that this group is the only customer which matters.
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X2:clapping:
 
cueandcushion said:

Business has been up dramatically since the smoking ban. Lost maybe 2 or 3 customers that were heavy smokers. Mostly kids and women are coming in more often. Dont have the exact numbers yet but maybe up 20%? Best year since maybe 2007 or so. Two pool places up the street got the smoking exemption. Both went under. So lots of factors besides smoke are guiding pool thru this economy. Adding the digital jukebox and dart boards has helped with younger crowd. Advertising on Facebook also has helped with bringing in younger people. Best of luck to all the other room owners at this difficult time of pool. Hope to hear some updates from others these days. This forum section is definitely a lot slower than 5 years ago.

This is a great story. Could you say more about the two rooms that closed (with exemptions). How long had the rooms been open? Who was their clientele? What do you have that they did not?
 
The decline of pool has nothing to do with the smoking ban, it has much more to do with technology. There are many ways for people to waste time without leaving there house now, online gaming, video gaming, facebook, etc.

The fact is, smoking bans have not hurt the restraunt industry, bars, or bowling alleys. Pool halls just don't have the ability to draw people anymore and the fact is, pool halls need lots of square footage which isn't cheap either. Poker has also been a killer by taking away much of the stakehorse money, why would anyone want to back a player for 50% of the winnings against when they could win 100%?
 
I am not a pool hall owner, But have been in business before, And from what I see I think that with the smoking ban it could hurt business , But only for a while, The die hard players will be back and the new business generated from the people who appreciate non smoking could also help off set the ones leaving because of the ban.

My 1 question to room owners is , What have you done to help keep some of your business from leaving, Such as have you made it comfortable for your regulars and other smokers to go outside and smoke? such as maybe put up a partial wall outside to shield them from the cold add some propane heaters, Some inexpensive outside seating and tables? Maybe some speakers to listen to music, Heck even maybe a waitress to go out and take orders at times .

Also think about having a junior league on Saturday mornings ect. It will be a better enviroment now with no smoking, to have kids and family come in and enjoy pool.


I believe you can make it work if you want you just need to think a bit outside the box!



Just my 2 cents.


Hector P
 
Paul Schofield said:
This is a great story. Could you say more about the two rooms that closed (with exemptions). How long had the rooms been open? Who was their clientele? What do you have that they did not?
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I can only say so much. I never knew the details of their finances so I would be speculating on a majority of any info that may be relevant.

One parlor was in business about 17 or18 years I guess. The other about 25 years. Rent going up faster than pool prices was definitely a factor I think. I know the room down the street from us had absurdly low prices. I know the thinking. If you fill your room up at a discounted rate you make it up in volume? Didn't really work tho. They filled up the room at $5 a day which included lunch. Unless that person was a raging alcoholic and spent a ton of money on alcohol, there was no way to make money there. The other room had numerous owners and bartenders etc. The high turnover I am sure was a sign of lots of economic troubles. Maybe the place never really made money and just kept changing hands because there are lots of people who think it would be "Cool" or "fun" to have a bar? Don't know. I would hear that business is bad from the regulars there, but I heard that for 20 years. The average rate in St Louis is probably about $4/hr for 9 foot tables. That rate will NEVER support a room. Most bar boxes are probably still $0.75 or $1.00 in the area. So they have gone up 25 cents in 25 years. I remember being in high school in the 70's and paying 75 cents to play pool at the local bowling alley. Still another room owner has been telling me he will shut down his pool room and just keep his bar area when his lease renews because he will cut his rent in half. Since the bar pays 90% of his income...you know the rest. Mostly girls just sit on the pool tables and flirt. People rarely even play pool at his room. So he pays $7000 a month rent to let girls get drunk and spill drinks on the tables. However much you love pool....it wont pay the bills. I may have mentioned more than 2 rooms here because lots of rooms in St Louis have gone under and more will be going under soon. They were in trouble before the smoking ban. The smoking ban just exaggerated problems that were already there. I really dont think it created many new problems. I know other rooms are on their way out soon also. Too much nostalgia and not enough innovation in our industry.
 
First of all, how long have we had the smoking ban in the books? Like, almost 2 decades??? I had to check the date of the OP to see if someone dug this topic up!!

So the conclusion is pool players are young, stupid, and a health risk to him and people around him. Only thing I want to know is where did the pimp and drug demographic move to?
 
Three days ago I saw it on TV about an angry smoker in England. A guy was told that he can`t smoke in a bar he was in. He leaves the bar, goes to his car and comes back into the Bar with a Chain saw. One customer threw a Bar stool at him followed by other patrons doing the similar things to subdue the angry smoker. Finally police took him into their custody.
The message was not intended to derail the thread.:cool:
 
the smoking laws have been in effect here in my area (europe) since 1.5 years.

there are 2 pool halls i visit here in my area. one is 30 mins drive from here and is completely smoke-free and has a separate "smoking" ventilated room, and is a perfect solution imho. people go there whenever they wish to smoke. what's the big deal. you just walk 30 seconds and smoke there.

unfortunately the pool hall next to my place has made its' smoking area where 90% of the pool tables are - what an idiotic and careless idea by the owners must I say. go figure. it's technically illegal because the law here states that the smoking area must be only there for smoking and no other activities - that is technically - in reality the owners made the smoking area as 60% of entire capacity space , which is 90% of all pool tables. they don't care and are getting by. that is the sad reality.
 
tedzap said:
Reading it again it (still) appears simply a rant about a highly emotional topic that (shockingly) took on a life of its own.
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The OP is all about the last paragraph. I will copy it here:

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.

I take no position on smoking or the laws surrounding it.
 
Has one Applebees, TGI Fridays, or Hooters gone under due to smoking bans? So why would poeple think that the pool industry has been devasted by smoking bans?
 
thebigdog said:
Has one Applebees, TGI Fridays, or Hooters gone under due to smoking bans? So why would poeple think that the pool industry has been devasted by smoking bans?
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Food is a requirement of human survival.

Pool is not.

Plus, FWIW, the failure rate of restaurants across the nation is staggering.

And ...

21 APPLEBEE'S close. ---> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-03-21-applebeeclosings_N.htm

TGIFRIDAY'S are closing across the fruited plain ---> http://www.google.com/search?q=tgifridays+closes+stores&hl=en&source=hp&gbv=2&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1242l13354l0l13665l28l26l1l7l7l0l275l3603l0.7.11l18l0&oq=tgifridays+closes+stores&aq=f&aqi=&aql=

HOOTERS is facing a similar fate. ---> http://www.google.com/search?q=hoot...l18l0&oq=hooters+closes+stores&aq=f&aqi=&aql=
 
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