Why shaft weights are so varied and who made some very light shafts?

H

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Need some expert opinions here.
Say a standard maple 29" 13mm shaft can weight from 3.3oz to over 4.0oz.
Why?
I'm thinking about density or age of the wood.
If so then why some lakewood are light but other old-grown like steve klapp's 150-year-old maple or timeleas timber are still relatively heavy (around 3.8oz)?
And the important question, from who can I order one below 3.3oz?
Thanks,
Kevin
 
When you evaluate the weight of the shafts, allowance should be made for the added weight
(approx. 1/3 oz.) of a piloted cue shaft vs. flat faced wood shaft. due to the brass in the shaft.
 
Bavafongoul said:
When you evaluate the weight of the shafts, allowance should be made for the added weight
(approx. 1/3 oz.) of a piloted cue shaft vs. flat faced wood shaft. due to the brass in the shaft.
Click to expand...
Forgot about the joint, I am talking strictly for bare wood joint, no insert.

Sent from my Z955L using Tapatalk
 
This always kind of frustrated me (inconsistency of shaft weights among production shafts). I was kind of went the production shaft route thinking if something happened to my shaft, I could easily find a like for like replacement. But it doesn't seem this is how things work...
 
You cant ignore joint weight. Collar weight,ferrule length/weight,shaft taper.
Joint diameter.
 
HelloBaby- said:
Need some expert opinions here.
Say a standard maple 29" 13mm shaft can weight from 3.3oz to over 4.0oz.
Why?
I'm thinking about density or age of the wood.
If so then why some lakewood are light but other old-grown like steve klapp's 150-year-old maple or timeleas timber are still relatively heavy (around 3.8oz)?
And the important question, from who can I order one below 3.3oz?
Thanks,
Kevin
Click to expand...


"...from whom..."

But as to your comments, I don't know why, I suppose wood has different density and all that good stuff.

That being said I personally strongly prefer heavy shafts.
For me, nothing under 4 lbs.
This is because I like a forward weighted cue and the shaft helps
greatly. But mostly I like having some weight in my hand in open bridges.
 
alphadog said:
You cant ignore joint weight. Collar weight,ferrule length/weight,shaft taper.
Joint diameter.
Click to expand...

Those are considered constants in my question, I am more interested in the "wood" factor here.

I have 2 identical shaft yet they are 3.1oz and 3.7oz. And yes I want to know why and hopefully able to buy a 3rd one at 3.3oz.
 
hellobaby- said:
those are considered constants in my question, i am more interested in the "wood" factor here.

I have 2 identical shaft yet they are 3.1oz and 3.7oz. And yes i want to know why and hopefully able to buy a 3rd one at 3.3oz.
Click to expand...

...lol....
 
9Ballr said:
"...from whom..."

But as to your comments, I don't know why, I suppose wood has different density and all that good stuff.

That being said I personally strongly prefer heavy shafts.
For me, nothing under 4 lbs.
This is because I like a forward weighted cue and the shaft helps
greatly. But mostly I like having some weight in my hand in open bridges.
Click to expand...

it's kind of preference, I have no problem playing open bridge.

Relatively speaking, Shane, Earl, Shaw... those guys play with 17oz+ butt so the balance of their cue is more or less similar to 15.5oz butt 3.3oz shaft.

Old SW cues are all light shafts heavy butt.
 
No two pieces of wood are going to be exactly the same, all depends on the tree from which the maple is harvested. The health, growing region, time of the year the tree was cut all have some effect on the density of the wood, hell even where on the trunk the wood comes from will have some variation. There are countless reasons why wood will weigh different, look different and play different from the same tree, you can imagine the variance from tree to tree.
As for the light shaft, you should be able to explain what you need from any competent builder and get what is desired.
Hope this answers your questions.

I am not a wood expert, this is just what I picked up listening to people much more versed in shaft/cue wood than I am.
This is an interesting discussion on the ask a maker forum http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=440537
 
Last edited:
Jon Manning said:
No two pieces of wood are going to be exactly the same, all depends on the tree from which the maple is harvested. The health, growing region, time of the year the tree was cut all have some effect on the density of the wood, hell even where on the trunk the wood comes from will have some variation. There are countless reasons why wood will weigh different, look different and play different from the same tree, you can imagine the variance from tree to tree.
As for the light shaft, you should be able to explain what you need from any competent builder and get what is desired.
Hope this answers your questions.

I am not a wood expert, this is just what I picked up listening to people much more versed in shaft/cue wood than I am.
This is an interesting discussion on the ask a maker forum http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=440537
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help, the discussion is very interesting :).
 
9Ballr said:
"...from whom..."

But as to your comments, I don't know why, I suppose wood has different density and all that good stuff.

That being said I personally strongly prefer heavy shafts.
For me, nothing under 4 lbs.
This is because I like a forward weighted cue and the shaft helps
greatly. But mostly I like having some weight in my hand in open bridges.
Click to expand...

4lbs?! That's some heavy shaft, you must be Big Foot or something! :D
 
I think at a certain level, approved by cuemaker to leave the shop, shafts tend to be in a reasonable range of weight (joint insert, joint material, ferrule same)

I believe your shaft weight variance is because those 2 shafts are from 2 cue makers? if from one, same taper, same tip size, then I would question that cue maker judgement and wood source.
 
I've relied upon the general approach when acquiring cues to get shafts that are 20%. and preferably, even up to 22-23% range, of the cue's playing weight. All the shafts on my cues weigh at least 20% of the cue's weight and I made sure the customs I've ordered were made that way......all flat faced shafts.

To better illustrate, here are the specs on two my cues. Prewitt Cue Wt: 18.8 ozs (butt 14.6 ozs & shaft 4.2 ozs. or 22.3%) or my last Jerry R. Cue Wt. 18.487 ozs, (butt 14.497 ozs & shaft 3.99 ozs or 21.6%). All of my cues adhere to the 20% rule of thumb and the shaft sizes vary. The Prewitt uses 13mm shafts and the Jerry R has 12.75mm shafts but both shafts play very solid and firm hitting. The cues Bob Owen made me were made this way, as well as my Tim Scruggs cue.

It's been my experience that when the shaft weight starts dipping below my 20% rule, 19% is the cut-off point as far as I'm concerned, the cue feels different. And when the shaft is piloted, I also increase the percentage requirement. Let me emphasize I am not a cue-maker, nor do I consider myself equivalently knowledgeable either. However, based upon the finest names and most expensive cues I've seen. all of these cues followed my rule of thumb so I am sticking with it.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I've relied upon the general approach when acquiring cues to get shafts that are 20%. and preferably, even up to 22-23% range, of the cue's playing weight. All the shafts on my cues weigh at least 20% of the cue's weight and I made sure the customs I've ordered were made that way......all flat faced shafts.

To better illustrate, here are the specs on two my cues. Prewitt Cue Wt: 18.8 ozs (butt 14.6 ozs & shaft 4.2 ozs. or 22.3%) or my last Jerry R. Cue Wt. 18.487 ozs, (butt 14.497 ozs & shaft 3.99 ozs or 21.6%). All of my cues adhere to the 20% rule of thumb and the shaft sizes vary. The Prewitt uses 13mm shafts and the Jerry R has 12.75mm shafts but both shafts play very solid and firm hitting. The cues Bob Owen made me were made this way, as well as my Tim Scruggs cue.

It's been my experience that when the shaft weight starts dipping below my 20% rule, 19% is the cut-off point as far as I'm concerned, the cue feels different. And when the shaft is piloted, I also increase the percentage requirement. Let me emphasize I am not a cue-maker, nor do I consider myself equivalently knowledgeable either. However, based upon the finest names and most expensive cues I've seen. all of these cues followed my rule of thumb so I am sticking with it.
Click to expand...

You have a very well calculated requirement there sir. I do want my cues to have certain weight and size requirements, and for shafts, I dont go below 12.8mm 3.7oz, all my cues have flat faced big pins.
 
Bavafongoul said:
When you evaluate the weight of the shafts, allowance should be made for the added weight
(approx. 1/3 oz.) of a piloted cue shaft vs. flat faced wood shaft. due to the brass in the shaft.
Click to expand...

It's actually a wash. But, a smart guy like you who knows about cues should know why.

Fresh off my scale - a 5/16-14 pin with insert weighs 1.15 ounces. A radial pin is 1.4 ounces. The extra weight of the bigger pin will actually make the joint area of the wood to wood pin more front heavy, net weight.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
It's actually a wash. But, a smart guy like you who knows about cues should know why.

Fresh off my scale - a 5/16-14 pin with insert weighs 1.15 ounces. A radial pin is 1.4 ounces. The extra weight of the bigger pin will actually make the joint area of the wood to wood pin more front heavy, net weight.
Click to expand...

But radial pins are made in a variety of materials with different weights.
 
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