Women Vs Men part 2

StormHotRod300

StormHotRod300

BigSexy
Silver Member
OK, well since i didnt wanna post a thread along with everyone elses, i decided to start Part 2 to this subject.



Now my whole view on this subject is, that i dont see how a guy or a women, should have any advantage. I mean obviously the guy will normally have a more powerful break, but, after that, i dont see why a guy should have a advantage over a women.

I mean isnt someone like Allison Fisher or Sarah, doing the same thing as a John Archer or Bustemante.

And if one of any of the Top pro's either male or female, if they drop a ball on the break, 90% of the time they should be able to run the rack.

And i have seen many of times, on TV where Allison Fisher broke and ran out the rack. So you know that if she kept on breaking and made a ball on the break, she could be able to run the rack, many times over.

And this goes for any of the Top Female pool players too.

I also dont see the big deal with getting beat by a women in pool? I have been beat in a tournament by women a couple times, and i just shrug it off and look at it like, hey she played a good game, i didnt make a couple shots here n there, So obviously she played a better game and beat me.

And thats the way it should be, the better player should win a match 99% of the time. Cuz your always going to have someone who happens to get lucky n stuff.

So if a guy and a women, played each other to a race to 11, and did alternating breaks, i dont see how a guy would have the advantage?

Maybe i am just blind lol, and sometimes i play like that, but i honestly dont see how a women or a guy has any advantage over each other.

Like i said earlier, the only advantage i see a guy having is on the break, cuz he can create more power, and get the balls to mix better. or maybe drop more balls on the break.

But thats just my two cents on the Subject.
 
Well Storm...you are very opinionated on this subject. It is the on-going topic of debate and misunderstanding.

I agree with you on some parts. There is no physical reason why men and women cannot be equal in the game. From my point of view there is no reason the men should even break harder than the women so that shouldn't be holding anything back. Plus, I have seen the women play incredible without a great break.

Now, I can go into sounding like a total feminist with my opinion on the game and the division of sexes. Women didn't start playing pool until many, many years after men because it was started as a "gentelman's only" game.

Or there is the theory that women have not felt comfortable in the pool room or have been disrespected or had pressure put on them for the way they play. I have experienced that. This weekend at a tournament people that didn't know me thought it was such a joke that I played and that some guy could possibly get beat by me. I played in a ring game with some good players and one of them joked around about how they shouldn't send me off crying and let me win a couple games. Should this happen? By no means. I think some women don't have the strength to put up with it so they are discouraged to play.

Or there is the third view that women have always been told in every aspect of life that men are above them. Maybe the women just have it in their heads that they cannot play as good as the men. I'm not sure what it is.

You have a good outlook on playing and things being equal. Other men just cannot take it. I have played in tournaments or gambled with men who either play perfect against me because they don't want to lose to a girl or they just cannot make a ball because they are trying so hard not to get beat by a girl. Things are changing for the better and people are getting more adapt to "equal" ability.

These ideas are just my own opinion. I'm sure many of the others here have different views. Feel free to share them.

Sarah
 
sarahrousey said:
Well Storm...you are very opinionated on this subject. It is the on-going topic of debate and misunderstanding.

I agree with you on some parts. There is no physical reason why men and women cannot be equal in the game. From my point of view there is no reason the men should even break harder than the women so that shouldn't be holding anything back. Plus, I have seen the women play incredible without a great break.

Now, I can go into sounding like a total feminist with my opinion on the game and the division of sexes. Women didn't start playing pool until many, many years after men because it was started as a "gentelman's only" game.

Or there is the theory that women have not felt comfortable in the pool room or have been disrespected or had pressure put on them for the way they play. I have experienced that. This weekend at a tournament people that didn't know me thought it was such a joke that I played and that some guy could possibly get beat by me. I played in a ring game with some good players and one of them joked around about how they shouldn't send me off crying and let me win a couple games. Should this happen? By no means. I think some women don't have the strength to put up with it so they are discouraged to play.

Or there is the third view that women have always been told in every aspect of life that men are above them. Maybe the women just have it in their heads that they cannot play as good as the men. I'm not sure what it is.

You have a good outlook on playing and things being equal. Other men just cannot take it. I have played in tournaments or gambled with men who either play perfect against me because they don't want to lose to a girl or they just cannot make a ball because they are trying so hard not to get beat by a girl. Things are changing for the better and people are getting more adapt to "equal" ability.

These ideas are just my own opinion. I'm sure many of the others here have different views. Feel free to share them.

Sarah
Click to expand...

Hey Sarah. :) I hope you don't mind if I contribute a thought or two on the subject.

There have been many theories put forth about this matter. I remember a few years ago Billy Incardona and Tony Annigoni had this discussion during one of the Accu-Stats 8-ball Invitational Matches and Billy seemed to think that it had something to do with the power generated in a woman's hands as to why he felt that the men should be able to beat the women a high percentage of the time. With all respect, Billy is entitled to his opinion, but I think he's a tad off-base.

I look at a player like Sarah who is relatively small in stature and she does possess by all accounts a tremendous opening break, though I have not seen her play as of this writing. Other notable players that come to mind that are small in stature but possess tremendous breaks would be players like Nick Varner or Tommy Kennedy. Both their hands are relatively small as well but the power they generate both in breaking and in stroke are tremendous. I'm sure there are countless others out there, women and men both whose names I've omitted, that are small in stature that possess similar breaking skills. So, I would have to say that it has something more to do than the power in one's hands.

If there is truly any advantage that a man would still enjoy, I think it would be in the height department. Men still enjoy somewhat of a height advantage overall, are able to reach shots more easily and thus are able to run out a little more often.

Ten years ago, I would have said without the slightest hesitation that the professional men would beat the professional women about 90+% of the time. However, the women have progressed significantly, their shooting and kicking skills have improved substantially plus they have organized a great tour and have shown tremendous savvy in doing business all at the same time. I still think the professional men will beat the professional women for the most part, but not nearly at the percentages they had a decade ago. The men had best wake up because the women are hot on their heels as far as playing goes.

I see I've gone on long enough so I'll get off the soapbox. Best of luck to you Sarah and all the women in the future in this sport.

BTW Sarah.... I *still* think you need to give me the 7-ball should we ever cross paths. <sorry, couldn't resist> ;)
 
women vs men part 2

Well, after reading your post Sarah, it i guess never seems to amaze me that guys will always try to make it such a big deal that they might get beat by a WOMEN.

I hope you went out and beat the crap outa them lol.

And now that i actually do think about the whole breaking situation, between men and women, i do remember seeing women, smashing the rack, before the Sardo was being used.

And me personally i have heard many of times, for some of the women who play in the tournaments i am in, that they are sick of guys takin it easy on them.


But yes there are women who dont have the best breakin ability in the world, yet somehow can drop a ball, and run the rack.

So does having a lesser quality of a break make someone inferior in the game, NO.

And i honestly think the only way to make a good comparison on a Women Vs Men situation, is to have a race to 11, alternate breaking, no Sardo, and have it be between the #1 ranked women player and #1 ranked mens player.


And a lil story that suits this subject, a few yrs back when i first got back into pool, i think it was like early 2000, well i met this girl who played pool, and she said that she was pretty good, and of course me being a guy, was like sure sure, well, we went to shoot some stick, well needless to say, she whipped my azz. And it was a eye opener cuz, i would have never dreamed that a girl could have whipped me that bad, but it happend.

And it only made me a better person. Cuz now if a girl was to say she was pretty good, i wouldnt just, make some stupid comment like " sure sure " .
 
Ok, so what are the records for a woman?

Number of consecutive 9ball racks break&run? For men it's 15.
High run at 14.1? For men it's 526.

I think women are not that far from men in terms of ability on a pool table. I'm sure top 3 could go to WPC and not embarrass themselves. I'm not sure what gives men the advantage here, because pool is not very physical at all.

Hey, let's be content that women are even good enough to sometimes compete with men on equal terms in pool, which is why we can even have this debate in the first place! This is hardly true for most other sports.

Take tennis for example. A male player ranked 200 easily beats top ranked woman by 6:0 6:0 if he plays seriously.
 
Thank you everyone for voicing your opinions.

As everyone knows, I admit that for some reason the men are above the women. Do I think/hope it will change, yes. I do think the women have a chance against the men right now. Winning maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 sets. That is why we can hold our own in tournaments.

predator....I'm not sure of the records but I am going to take a guess. I heard that Allison broke and ran 8 in a tournament pre-Sardo. I believe the official record for straight pool is 68 by Ewa Laurance...but Jeanette Lee has run 150's and others have run 100's.

I agree that in most other sports there is no comparison. Those sports are physical where the man is supposed to have the edge just because of the way a man's body is made and the way a woman's body is made. Luckily for everyone pool doesn't depend on size, shape, or muscle.

As I said before, this is an on-going debate. I think it will be forever. The most important thing is to give everyone equal respect.

Sarah
 
sarahrousey said:
Well Storm...you are very opinionated on this subject. It is the on-going topic of debate and misunderstanding.

I agree with you on some parts. There is no physical reason why men and women cannot be equal in the game. From my point of view there is no reason the men should even break harder than the women so that shouldn't be holding anything back. Plus, I have seen the women play incredible without a great break.

Now, I can go into sounding like a total feminist with my opinion on the game and the division of sexes. Women didn't start playing pool until many, many years after men because it was started as a "gentelman's only" game.

Or there is the theory that women have not felt comfortable in the pool room or have been disrespected or had pressure put on them for the way they play. I have experienced that. This weekend at a tournament people that didn't know me thought it was such a joke that I played and that some guy could possibly get beat by me. I played in a ring game with some good players and one of them joked around about how they shouldn't send me off crying and let me win a couple games. Should this happen? By no means. I think some women don't have the strength to put up with it so they are discouraged to play.

Or there is the third view that women have always been told in every aspect of life that men are above them. Maybe the women just have it in their heads that they cannot play as good as the men. I'm not sure what it is.

You have a good outlook on playing and things being equal. Other men just cannot take it. I have played in tournaments or gambled with men who either play perfect against me because they don't want to lose to a girl or they just cannot make a ball because they are trying so hard not to get beat by a girl. Things are changing for the better and people are getting more adapt to "equal" ability.

These ideas are just my own opinion. I'm sure many of the others here have different views. Feel free to share them.

Sarah
Click to expand...

I'm chiming in a little late. I was wondering, too why men should be considered better able to excel at this sport, which does not really depend upon brute strength, nor necessarily on size. Wasn't Mosconi short?

I hadn't thought of it that way before, but you might be right that it is a little bit psychological. I can imagine a female in a pool hall gets subjected to a lot of pressure from macho types with their cowboy mentality and maybe it wears on them after a while. I've got a woman on my bca eight ball league that just doesn't seem to let it happen, but that may be a function of age and also life at the lower levels of pool.

Anyway, Stay strong. you should be able to hit the little ball in the hole with a stick as well as any man.
Dennis
 
predator said:
Ok, so what are the records for a woman?

Number of consecutive 9ball racks break&run? For men it's 15.
High run at 14.1? For men it's 526.
Click to expand...

If you're referring to tournament play, the last record I heard about was when Ewa Mataya (now Laurance) ran a 68 at the 1992 US Open 14.1 event. However, keep in mind that the ladies only played to 100 points back then whereas the men went to 150.

Officially, the 14.1 record for a man is indeed 526. Unofficially, the record for straight pool is 589, also set by Mosconi.
 
There are other claims to higher runs as well. I think Babe Cranfield and G Nagy (sp) claim unofficial 600's. Never heard of that second Mosconi run by the way. Was it on a 4 &1/2 X 9, 5 x 10?

I personally saw Allison break and run 6 pre sardo in Orlando vs Laura Smith i believe. She may have an 8 though too-not doubting that.
 
Nostroke said:
Was it on a 4 &1/2 X 9, 5 x 10?
Click to expand...

If memory serves, it was on a 4 1/2 X 9. I believe it was mentioned in a P&B mag that was published shortly before Willie passed away, though I don't remember off-hand exactly when that issue came out.
 
Man I was ecstatic to see this post. My boyfriend and I have debated for months about this exact topic. He thinks that a man can dominate every sport starting with fishing, going into football, track, and on down to pool. I don't disagree with the more physical sports, but c'mon he can't actually think that a woman can't compete evenly with a man. Opinions or not, this post just proves me right!! LOL

Sarah, I knwo exactly what you are saying about how some women just can't take the commentary of men pool players. About a year ago, shortly after I started playing seriously, I played pool out of this little hole in the wall pool hall. Pretty good tables, 8'. I could barely make a ball, and if I did I knew nothing about english. Well, I got to playing the same guy for practice every week, Chris. He was pretty good. I was his racker all night, every week! Well, I hadn't seen him for about 5 or 6 months, and just recently I saw him at a Team Captain's meeting for league. We talked for a few, and decided we needed to start playing again. I told him that I had improved ALLOT. He didn't believe it, and so he went on and on about how I'll be racking all night again. HA HA HA...until he got there...he was in complete utter shock. I was running the table, making hard cuts, oddly angled banks,,,I was on fire that night. Needless to say I got the last laugh. Then last night we played two races to 10...first game I won 10-3, then he won 10-9. I typed all that to make this point: When a guy gives a woman a hard time about shooting, it should make her that much better on the table. Someone else's doubt is what drives me to play better!

Good luck to all...I enjoyed this post!
 
hey 9balldiva,

Way to teach that guy a lesson. You are right, there shouldn't be any reason why women can't play as good as men. Who knows what the reason is but I think the men are starting to find out how good women are beginning to play. Hopefully sometime in our lifetime there will be a woman to break through. Maybe it will be you or I :)

Take care,
Sarah
 
the break

Ok, I'll Chime In As Well The Harder You Break The More Chance You Have For The Cue To Get Away From You. So Now To My Point To All The People That Think You Need To Break Hard I Have Two Words For All Of You.........corey Deuel......power Has Nothing To Do With If You Dont Keep Control Of The Cue Ball. I Think The Only Thing Missing From Alot Of The Women's Game Is To Be More Agressive On The Table. Other Than That It Is All About The Knowledge Of The Game When To What And Why. So There Now The Debate Is Over Lol Hahaha
 
hey doublewideclyde,

You are right, the soft break is not a disadvantage. Corey, Karen, Allison and many others have proven it can be affective. The women are much less aggressive than the men. For some reason many of the women would rather bunt the balls around rather than go for the win. I disagree with that theory but there are times you have to play safe. So I guess you are right...you have ended the argument.

Take care.
Sarah
 
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