Women's Grand Masters aka Pro Event at the BCA

[Jude Rosenstock]

We also feel that no-one can 'get too good' to play. There needs to be a place for every speed of player.

And there it is, folks. You don't like it? Practice!

 

[SPetty]

Remember everyone, This is the BCA Pool League. The BCA is still the Billiard Congress of America and has nothing to do with amateur pool.

Hi Mark,

I think many of us thought that the BCAPL was sold off from the BCA because the BCA didn't have the time or inclination to deal with the amateur pool players. So of course we naturally thought that the BCAPL would be an amateur league, a league for amateurs, so that we could continue to have a familiar "place" to play.

That's why I, along with the others, was quite surprised to hear that a highly ranked professional pool player (and no, I can't offer the definition for the term) won an amateur league tournament. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe a solution would be to call it "Professionals and Professional Level" instead of "Grand Masters" to clear things up a bit.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Hi Mark,

I think many of us thought that the BCAPL was sold off from the BCA because the BCA didn't have the time or inclination to deal with the amateur pool players. So of course we naturally thought that the BCAPL would be an amateur league, a league for amateurs, so that we could continue to have a familiar "place" to play.

That's why I, along with the others, was quite surprised to hear that a highly ranked professional pool player (and no, I can't offer the definition for the term) won an amateur league tournament. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe a solution would be to call it "Professionals and Professional Level" instead of "Grand Masters" to clear things up a bit.

But see, that's what I think Griffin is moving away from. It's not amateurs and professionals. It's Opens, Masters and Grand Masters.

 

[LAMas]

Can anyone provide a link to the results for this event?

Barbara

Sunny Day posted elsewere:

All results for every events are listed in www.playbca.com

go to events-2008 BCA National 8 Ball Championships-2008 National Championship Player List.

Select the event you are inquiringing.
Place your cursor over "Place", and click on it when it turns blue.

You should see the finish and pay outs.

 

[frankncali]

I don't think that players should be barred from the Grand Masters division but in team play there were many teams with more than one player that should have been known masters.

Justin Bergman played in the Masters singles and no surprise that he won it. He is hardly flying under anyones radar. He should have been in the GM event.

I think its tough to find the right lines to be drawn and there will always be some guys in the wrong levels. I don't envy the powers that be who have to come up with the guidelines.

One question I have is can you be dropped back a level once raised?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I don't think that players should be barred from the Grand Masters division but in team play there were many teams with more than one player that should have been known masters.

Justin Bergman played in the Masters singles and no surprise that he won it. He is hardly flying under anyones radar. He should have been in the GM event.

I think its tough to find the right lines to be drawn and there will always be some guys in the wrong levels. I don't envy the powers that be who have to come up with the guidelines.

One question I have is can you be dropped back a level once raised?

I have to say, in contrast, it's much better to define players this way (Open, Master, Grand Master) than what the APA does with their "Professional Status" definition. The problem with using the word "Professional" is that the word carries its own definition regardless as to how an organization chooses to define it.

pro fes sion al [pruh-fesh-uh-nl]
adjective 1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain

I mean, how many players IN THE WORLD get to call themselves such? Obviously Open, Master and Grand Master still need definition but at least you're not fighting with the dictionary.

With that said, I think the current structure is sufficient. If you place high in a respective event, you are raised to the next level. I believe the top six in the Masters event get moved to Grand Master. Personally, I think such a bump should be permenant unless an obvious medical condition suggests otherwise.

 

[Firecracker]

One question I have is can you be dropped back a level once raised?

Yes, after two years of not finishing in the money, a player can request to be dropped down to a lower division. However, the review is subjective to whoever makes that decision. I have known some players moved down that probably shouldn't have been and others that have tried to be moved down (and probably should be) that were rejected.

 

[Firecracker]

With that said, I think the current structure is sufficient. If you place high in a respective event, you are raised to the next level. I believe the top six in the Masters event get moved to Grand Master. Personally, I think such a bump should be permenant unless an obvious medical condition suggests otherwise.

Definitely, but you have to allow each player to "earn" the status. Otherwise, you are punishing some players for improving their games outside of the BCA venues.

 

[Firecracker]

This is to try and address some of the comments about Kelly Fisher Playing in the Grandmaster event at the BCAPL tournament.

The Grandmaster is the top level. The BCAPL does not feel that a player should be barred because they are "too good" - if so why even try to play your best?

Our policy is that ANYBODY can play in the Grandmaster event. That means touring pros. I realize the women's depth may not be that deep - but in the men's side, I don't think anybody has to like playing Kirkwood or Bergman a race on a 7' table. And we try to have the same qualifying rules for men & women.

If anyone plays in the Pro event, they CANNOT play in any of our events if there will be a schuduling conflict for any of the players in both events. Kelly Fisher did not play in the Pro event. We did refund a few that did not understand our policy. It seems one women player got by us. We will try to resolve that next year. The problem is that the Predator roster changes up to the last minute - even after our draw is done and the charts are posted.

We make mistakes. But we have to go by Known Ability. We acknowledge a player can be returned to a lower level - but it does not happen all that often. We can only judge players by their "single" performance. Many players just try to fly under the radar. We have to protect the players.

We also feel that no-one can 'get too good' to play. There needs to be a place for every speed of player.

I would encourage comments and questions. Often there is a misunderstanding and we would like the opportunity to resolve issues BEFORE they get way out of hand.

We still think the creation of the Grandmasters is a good idea. Unfortunately, many players don't return after being bumped up because the competition gets a little bit tougher.

I hope this helps explain the situation. By the way bill@playbca.com would be the contact on these issues.

I also am looking for the contact info for the TOP 500 or so players in the US. That Includes women!!!

Mark Griffin
BCAPL
markg@playbca.com

Thanks for your input on this matter Mark. I was planning on penning a letter to the BCA in regards to ranking, so I will pass this on to Bill.

I was going to check if I could move down at the same time...two years out of the money....

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Definitely, but you have to allow each player to "earn" the status. Otherwise, you are punishing some players for improving their games outside of the BCA venues.

Yes, I agree to a certain extent. I think the status SHOULD be earned with a handful of exceptions. As Griffin stated, WPBA members are automatically Grand Masters. I think, given the average level of play in the Open/Master events combined with the process a woman must go through to earn WPBA Touring Pro status, this is fair.

 

[frankncali]

Yes, after two years of not finishing in the money, a player can request to be dropped down to a lower division. However, the review is subjective to whoever makes that decision. I have known some players moved down that probably shouldn't have been and others that have tried to be moved down (and probably should be) that were rejected.

Thanks

BTW-- it was nice meeting you and JJ in Vegas. Good people

 

[RunoutalloverU]

And there it is, folks. You don't like it? Practice!

Exactly! Rep to you for common sense.

 

[cuechick]

Hi All,

I just wanted to share with you some information I received from Bill Stock, Rules & Referee Program Administrato of the BCA. This is a direct quote from an e-mail that he sent to me on Jan 15th.

"All WPBA members are ranked as Grand Masters. If they were to climb into the top 32 they would then become ineligible to play in team events. As long as they are ranked lower than 32 they can play. They would still be able to play in the Grand Master singles regardless of their ranking."

So, while you may feel it is unfair that the WPBA players were allowed into the Grand Master singles...this e-mail does prove that it was not a decision made at the last minute. Any WPBA player was allowed to enter the Grand Master singles...regardless of ranking (in that same e-mail chain, Bill later jokes that if Allison purchased a BCA player membership...of course she would be allowed into the Grand Masters). The only prohibition for the Top 32 was in the team events.

Cuechick - if your friend's team is from NY...then I believe I know who the captain is. And it was I who provided her the information back in January that her 2 touring pros could play in the team event since they weren't ranked Top 32 at the time. I forwarded those e-mails from Bill Stock to her...so she must have misunderstood and thought the Top 32 restriction went for all BCA events...not just team play.

Best Regards,

Melissa

Thanks for clarifying that, now it makes more sense. I actually got my info from one of the GM/TPs on her team and not directly from her. So that is where this misunderstanding comes in. It is good to know they are not making it up as they go...