Wood to wood getting loose

Train1077

Train1077

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have heard a lot from other players in my club about wood to wood joints. More explicitly, when the metal screw goes directly to the wood of the shaft, like most 3/8-10 joints do.

I have heard a lot about how they start to get loose and don't fit very well when being used a lot and after a period of time.

What experience do you people have with this?? and if this is true, why do a lot of cuemakers use this?
 
Train1077 said:
I have heard a lot from other players in my club about wood to wood joints. More explicitly, when the metal screw goes directly to the wood of the shaft, like most 3/8-10 joints do.

I have heard a lot about how they start to get loose and don't fit very well when being used a lot and after a period of time.

What experience do you people have with this?? and if this is true, why do a lot of cuemakers use this?
Click to expand...

I have had this problem now for a good while.
Aerial Carmeli said he would have to take out the old pin and replace it with a new one. Presently he is waiting for new pins to arrive. He said that there is the option to use the metal pin or the g10 pin that is some sort of man made material? I have seen them but I probably will go with the metal pin.

I had one of my shafts replugged and threaded thinking that would solve the problem but it didn't. The metal pins after much use do wear down and leave enough play between it and the wood shaft and replacing it is the only option I believe. This wearing down process does take quite a bit of time. I've had my cue for over 30 years and this is the first time for this problem.
 
One of the reasons Stainless Steel joints were invented. They do not have any problems.
 
why do cuemakers keep using them then?? That makes no sense... Would a metal plug in the shaft change the hit that much?
 
??? I had two Southwests and never had a problem with either one and I played with them daily. My Dishaw, which is my only player at the moment, has four shafts. The originals were made in 1993, the other two in '94 or '95. I play at home almost daily and have had no problems with either the originals or the two newer ones.
 
deep said:
I only play with big pin, flat-faced joints and I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...

Hello i can save you a lot of money and time.
Use candle wax on the pin it works ..
I had the samething happen and wax works great .
 
Big Pin shaft looseness

In my opinion, the way you screw your cue together and apart has a lot to do with the life of the wood threads.

Think of it this way - If you allow the tip of the shaft to move off center when threading on or off, you are inducing a lot of side load on the threads. This side load can compress or break down the wood thread lands and grooves over time.

I have played with OLD McDermotts, and Bluds, that have literally NO play in the threads. Some of these old cues feel like they screw together as tight as the day they were made - and I have picked up (similar) newer cues that felt like the pin was a half a size too small - so loose I was afraid to torque the shaft down with a good twist.

I also believe it's important to keep the pins and threads clean. Chalk is abrasive and can wear down the mating parts quickly.

Just my two-cents.
 
I play with a wood to wood 3/8 10 by schmelke and never have that problem. I almost play everyday and have been using the cue well over half a year now and not had a single problem. It was so hard for me to screw on the shaft that I actually had to apply a little carnubau wax on the thread of the joint so it can go on a little smoother. I have an OB2 3/8 10 shaft for it as well and still don't have a problem.

Sucks that it happens I guess, but I think the overall hit of wood to wood joints has more feel (JMHO). I have a stainless joint cue as well and I don't like the hit of it. I don't feel much response from the hit.

Happy father's day to all the fathers out there.

Chino
 
Realizm said:
Hello i can save you a lot of money and time.
Use candle wax on the pin it works ..
I had the samething happen and wax works great .
Click to expand...

I had a cue do the same happen, I put some Q-wax in the hole and on the pin let it soak in and never had another problem. Its easily solved and, not a big deal really. I don't know about the plug and redrill seems like it would have changed the hit of the cue....
 
Ok, I'm a little confused here. I thought the original poster miss titled this thread and meant to say metal pin to wood shaft. Most posters here are saying wood to wood. Which is something all together different.

The op did mention the metal pin going into wood. OP please clarify. thanks
 
I also use big pin flat face w2w and have never had any problems. I'd be extremely dubious of any claims that the metal pin had changed more than the wood threads over any period of time - unless you've made a practice of cleaning your pin with an abrasive.
 
Realizm said:
Hello i can save you a lot of money and time.
Use candle wax on the pin it works ..
I had the samething happen and wax works great .
Click to expand...

I did that to my Josey soon after it arrived. Before, the cue gave an annoying squeak when screwing it together. Worked great, no loosness problem experience.
 
I've owned two different cues where the pin went straight into wood threads in the shaft. A Mc Dermott and a Stroud.

Never had a problem with it getting loose.

What I always did was take a cue tip, get the tip pretty wet, and swab the inside of the shaft threads. The moisture would make the wood swell a little, and keep the fit tight. Always worked and never any bad side-effects. Only did it about once every six months.
 
I want to say thanks for all the answers, really helped me a lot. I'm very happy about my new McDermott Stinger NG01, it's break fits my style precisely, but a friend of mine had me concerned because of the metal pin to wood joint.
I'll try the wax thing or make the wood inside the joint expand a bit with water, if it ever loosens.

Dabarbr: Thanks, I think that you are right, maybe I misunderstood the wood to wood, just thinking it was the same. I suppose wood to wood is like most carom cues, where it IS wood screwed into wood :) I'll keep it in mind if I post about it again.
 
I have had a Capone cue with the 'Radial-thread' metal pin going into the wood of the shaft. It was extremely tight and fit perfectly - you had to use some extra force to get the shaft on the butt after only the half of the pin has been in the shaft.

I have read - maybe on DZ's site - that they make the threads a little 'smaller' than the pin, so actually when you put the cue together for the first time the pin re-threads the shaft (these are only microscopic differences) and hence the pin and the shaft will match perfectly. The pin also polishes the threads somewhat during the first couple of assemblings.

I have never had any problems with this and so far I have always preferred the feel of these kinds of cues more, than those with the brass insert in the shafts.

Note: just be careful and give the cue 2 seconds extra care when putting it together or taking it apart.
 
I'm afraid that in many cases the only fix for this sort of thing is a new shaft. If memory serves, without going through the whole thread again, only one poster had the problem and with a 30 year old cue.
Again, I've never experienced the problem myself and haven't known anyone personally that has.
I really do prefer the wood to wood with a brass pin joint as I feel it provides more feedback in the hit than stainless steel.
 
If you soak the threads inside the shaft with thin CA glue , let dry and retap, then put some bees wax , you will not have any problem ... Always screw and unscrew your cue straight up and down as not to put any side stress on the female threads of the shaft ... Don't put the blame solely on cue makers , most people get new cues and only after they use them does this occur !!!:cool:
 
There are several possible reasons for this to occur:

1. There could be lower humidity where you are, and the wood shrinks a little after acclimating to your environment

2. As someone else mentioned when you aren't careful threading your shaft on the pin, it can "waller out" the threads and make it become loose

3. The cuemaker may have made it a slightly more loose fit by design.

Here is a good thread topic in the "Ask the Cuemaker" section of the forum regarding this issue: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=182644

As for the replugging and retapping your shaft and it still being loose, that sounds like a problem where the person doing the cue work didn't take the time to compare his tap vs the pin on the cue. You can purchase slightly under- and over-sized taps for each thread, and it sounds like he could have just used an under-sized tap to get the job done. I cannot imagine the pin was worn down to any significance over 100 years of screwing into a wooden joint unless you are dumping blue chalk in the hole every time you play.

Also, a Wood to Wood joint describes the two faces, not the pin and the shaft face. A metal pin can be a W2W joint, a piloted SS or ivory joint, a flat face SS or ivory joint, etc, etc, as can a wooden pin.
 
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