Woods for cues?

[Ssonerai]

Wenge is usually an ideal cue wood. It has the right density, is generally ultra stable, and has very nice tonal character. That said, perhaps you got a dud piece or maybe did something wrong somewhere.

Paduak is a bit lightweight but beautifully colored and bright tone. It'll turn dark red over time & eventually dull, dark brown. Bloodwood is nice, too. It's heavy like an ebony or dense rosewood. I haven't had issues with it changing color.

Thank you for the input.
I had at least 500 ft of 8/4 wenge at the time, so the piece chosen was stragth, sound. Just a solid merry widow style with a phenolic butt cap, 3/8 - 10 G10 flat face and a phenolic joint ferrule. Will have to find it again, maybe match up with a PH shaft and see if i like it any better. You are correct that it is not much interesting to look at. I considered the strength, hardness, etc might make it a solid hitter. It hits hard enough, but just feels dead. Must be me.

The bloodwood here was left over from some millwork in a public theatre about a decade ago, and that job does still seems bright red. Was even in a flood and most of the wood survived, lol. But had not heard of it being used in cues yet. It's dense enough most samples don't float. It is squirrelly. Actually, the pieces that are flat off the pile tend to stay pretty flat, but pieces that are bowed or twisted seem to move again when another cut is taken.

I've heard Paduak fades fast, but only have a little of it and never tried it in a cue.

Again, thanks much for the information.

smt

 

[qbilder]

Thank you for the input.
I had at least 500 ft of 8/4 wenge at the time, so the piece chosen was stragth, sound. Just a solid merry widow style with a phenolic butt cap, 3/8 - 10 G10 flat face and a phenolic joint ferrule. Will have to find it again, maybe match up with a PH shaft and see if i like it any better. You are correct that it is not much interesting to look at. I considered the strength, hardness, etc might make it a solid hitter. It hits hard enough, but just feels dead. Must be me.

Could be the wood or could be the shaft or something in the ferrule/tip. I had some straight grain maple that was completely dud. I mean it was like the stuff was made out of wax. It cut great, looked totally normal, but it's tone was awful. Maple is generally pretty consistent in its smoky/sharp tone but this stuff was crap. It's possible your wenge is like that.

 

[Kim Bye]

I disagree 110%. IMO, cues are much like music. The tip will be your treble and the butt cap your bass, with the entire spectrum in between. Take one shaft & use it on multiple butts over all similar dimension, and it'll be a different cue with different feel every time.

Case in point take a solid cocobolo butt and a solid balsa wood butt. Make them the exact same dimensions, weight, and balance. Same shaft either butt. They will not hit or feel the same, nor will the cue ball react the same on a given shot. Power, spin, feel, everything will be drastically different.

That`s a pretty unfair comparison don`t you think?
I totally agree with you about tone woods, as a former drummer, I know very well that woods have very different tones.
As to power and spin, I`m sticking to my initaial claim that most of what do with the cueball has to do with the tip, diameter, ferrule material, shaft material and taper. I did not rule out theimportance of a well constructed cue butt. Some woods can feel more alive, while others can be more muted or have an almost "dead" feel to them.
But it also depends on how the cue is constructed. A laminated maple core will feel, sound and of course have a totally different weight than a Jatoba or purpleheart core (given that the dimensions are the same...)

 

[Nohomegnome]

Does it make any sense to track down the wood I want myself and give it to the cue maker to use, or should I just rely on them for that? I have family that travels internationally pretty regularly and could probably get what I want locally, but I'm not sure if that makes sense. As a cue maker, would that be weird? Is there a logical reason not to do that?

 

[HQueen]

One reason is a good cue maker seasons his wood for years. You would most likely be buying wood that is fresh out of the kiln. Seasoning wood is the only way to insure a solid playing cue that will stay straight for a lifetime. Of course there are no absolutes but generally speaking this is the way all the great cue makers have done it and there are reasons for it.

 

[thoffen]

Does it make any sense to track down the wood I want myself and give it to the cue maker to use, or should I just rely on them for that? I have family that travels internationally pretty regularly and could probably get what I want locally, but I'm not sure if that makes sense. As a cue maker, would that be weird? Is there a logical reason not to do that?

Some makers will let you do that but in general best to let the maker pick.

 

[qbilder]

That`s a pretty unfair comparison don`t you think?
I totally agree with you about tone woods, as a former drummer, I know very well that woods have very different tones.
As to power and spin, I`m sticking to my initaial claim that most of what do with the cueball has to do with the tip, diameter, ferrule material, shaft material and taper. I did not rule out theimportance of a well constructed cue butt. Some woods can feel more alive, while others can be more muted or have an almost "dead" feel to them.
But it also depends on how the cue is constructed. A laminated maple core will feel, sound and of course have a totally different weight than a Jatoba or purpleheart core (given that the dimensions are the same...)

Several years ago, a fellow sent me a very nice cue made by a HOF maker who's often touted for great playing cues. He said he couldn't get any action on the ball and wanted me to tune the shafts. Both shafts had ivory ferrules & nice tips, and top notch shaft wood. Sure enough as I tried, there was no way to adequately spin the cue ball. So I swapped the ferrule on one shaft & added a fresh Kamui tip. Still nothing. I didn't even touch the second shaft. I made a brand new shaft from my own stock & to my amazement, nothing. We're talking a 4-point 4/veneer cocobolo into birds eye maple cue with stainless joint, a classic cue made by a long time legend. There was nothing abnormal about the butt except that it had a dead, dull tone. It had no damage, no buzz, nothing loose.

The reason that cue was junk is because of the bad choice of materials, whether be it the birds eye or the handle wood, possibly even a mistake in construction. The butt of that cue prevented the cue ball from drawing or following. Both shafts plus the third that I made all played exceptionally well on other butts. That cue cemented my belief that every component matters equally, and that performance is a sum of all parts, not just the tip end of the shaft.

 

[S.Vaskovskyi]

That cue cemented my belief that every component matters equally, and that performance is a sum of all parts, not just the tip end of the shaft.

That's a great story and exactly what I believe in.

 

[qbilder]

That's a great story and exactly what I believe in.

Thank you. Over the years of making cues, I have come to appreciate & think of cues much in the same way I think of music. Music is composed of various frequency ranges and if one is missing, it doesn't sound right. Arguably most critical is the bass. While it's not very exciting on its own, it lays the foundation for everything above it, much like the butt of a cue. If something is off with that bass, if it's too weak or too bold, maybe out of tune, then it throws off the entire composition. The butt of a cue is very much like that. The tip can only do what the shaft allows and the shaft can only do as much as the butt allows, and nothing can be better than the component before it.

The balsa wood analogy I used in an earlier post was an extreme measure to make a point. While nobody would seriously build a balsa butt & expect it to perform well, a lot of makers just throw together whatever & think it'll do just fine so long as it has a nice shaft & tip. It doesn't work that way. Most guys get pretty lucky because the woods we commonly use in cues are time proven, but every once in a while nature produces a dud. If you're not able or willing to detect it before you use it in a cue, some of your cues will be duds.

 

[Ssonerai]

The reason that cue was junk is because of the bad choice of materials, whether be it the birds eye or the handle wood, possibly even a mistake in construction. The butt of that cue prevented the cue ball from drawing or following. Both shafts plus the third that I made all played exceptionally well on other butts. That cue cemented my belief that every component matters equally, and that performance is a sum of all parts, not just the tip end of the shaft

Great information!
Was the butt built up on a dowel core or was it a full splice?

Speaking of draw, is there an opinion whether there is a difference in draw-ability between an LD optimized shaft/cue & a more forward weighted cue?

Thanks!
smt

 

[S.Vaskovskyi]

Thank you. Over the years of making cues, I have come to appreciate & think of cues much in the same way I think of music. Music is composed of various frequency ranges and if one is missing, it doesn't sound right. Arguably most critical is the bass. While it's not very exciting on its own, it lays the foundation for everything above it, much like the butt of a cue. If something is off with that bass, if it's too weak or too bold, maybe out of tune, then it throws off the entire composition. The butt of a cue is very much like that. The tip can only do what the shaft allows and the shaft can only do as much as the butt allows, and nothing can be better than the component before it.

The balsa wood analogy I used in an earlier post was an extreme measure to make a point. While nobody would seriously build a balsa butt & expect it to perform well, a lot of makers just throw together whatever & think it'll do just fine so long as it has a nice shaft & tip. It doesn't work that way. Most guys get pretty lucky because the woods we commonly use in cues are time proven, but every once in a while nature produces a dud. If you're not able or willing to detect it before you use it in a cue, some of your cues will be duds.

That's the point of view of a real artist in the field and I love your parallels with the music.:clapping: