World 9 Ball and How the Americans Compare!

Johnny has back to back 2nd place finishes...don't turn off the lights on his career yet, please.

You must be referring to some regional stuff.

Johnny played in two marquis events over the past two months.

Turning Stone XXIV 9th place

US Open 10-ball 17th place

He was a non-factor at both 2015 Derby City and 2015 Super Billiards Expo and finished 33rd in the 2014 US Open 9-ball.

If you think that Johnny is still super-elite, you are not paying attention. In the tough events with the toughest fields, Johnny hasn't had a high finish in a long time.
 
Don't think I called him super elite, but rather, don't write him off completely. Where is he in Mosconi Cup rankings?
 
You must be referring to some regional stuff.

Johnny played in two marquis events over the past two months.

Turning Stone XXIV 9th place

US Open 10-ball 17th place

He was a non-factor at both 2015 Derby City and 2015 Super Billiards Expo and finished 33rd in the 2014 US Open 9-ball.

If you think that Johnny is still super-elite, you are not paying attention. In the tough events with the toughest fields, Johnny hasn't had a high finish in a long time.
your right. Alternate break I don't think Johnny can break run one rack.
 
Archer, Mills, Woodward, Deuel , Hatch, Oscar --- the guys who nearly never are among the last few in premier nine foot table events in America in 2014 or 2015. These guys aren't typically found in the last stages of Derby City, Turning Stone or the US Open 9-ball. Stepping up in competition is not what these guys need, although I feel confident Skyler Woodward will be a great player within a few years. Still, in rotation games, his track record on nine foot tables is pretty mediocre to date.

Rodney still has a strong top gear, occasionally strong enough to compete with the most elite internationals.

Justin Bergman had a major win against an elite international field at Hard Times in 2014, so there's at least some evidence he might be up to competition at the most elite level.

Of those you list, the only one I think would fare well in international competition is Justin Hall, 7th in the 2014 US Open 9-ball, 2nd at the US Open 10-ball, and 5th at the last Turning Stone event. Add his prodigious skills in both banks and one pocket and you've got a crazy-talented player capable of great things if he chose to get some international seasoning.

Face it, the US has just two players capable of shining at the highest level of international competition. Once you get past Shane and Mike, it's a steep drop to the rest of the American talent pool, possibly excepting Hall.

I really have to wonder what you're watching to conclude that so many of the guys who have been unsuccessful on American soil would find sudden success if they tried their luck against even tougher fields than they are used to.

The worst thing we American pool fans can do is be satisfied with what we've got. The place American pool pros hold in international competition is embarrassing, and when our guys try the WPA events, they have a poor track record of late. This can change, but if it changes, it will be the young guys who make it change, not the past-their-prime members of the old guard of American pool.


I love your posts even when we don't agree because you are well thought out and obviously your in the know in the pool world.

I think we are agreeing more than you think. If you give me Hall and Morris and a maybe Bergman (and I think you are under estimating Justin B. a little, I'd personally favor him over Hall in rotation even though Hall out performed him at the US Open and the MC obviously)……… then our biggest disagreement is probably on Hatch. I think Dennis H. can play world class speed whenever he hits his form and practices. I talked to him in memphis, he never practices at all and it shows. But if he buckled down a couple of months he could play world class speed… you know as well as anyone that Hatch's game goes from decent/good pro to world beater every couple of years (for the last 20 years)… true he's in a slump now, but I think he that could swing pretty quickly if the situation were right.

In other words, I think Hall, Morris, and Hatch (In stroke) would have a REALLY good chance to have made the top 64 (and from there its a coin flip in this format obviously). Then If I get a lucky straggler from the field of Johnny, Corey, Mills, Oscar….. that would have potentially put 6 Americans in the top 64 which would have been a respectable showing.
 
One other thought….There is a lot of talk about this Fargo rating system.. I would much rather be able to compare the acustat ratings per match to see what these players are looking like in relationship to each other. In other words, are the Americans shooting lower acustat scores than the foreign competition.
 
I've always had a tough time with Mike Duchene:
SVB has always been a class act.

But now since Mike grew a beard and I see SVB by his side.
It seems like he has changed his attitude towards the better.. Was the appearance a part of this new beginning?
Now SVB picked him up as his World Partner.
You see them flying out together to the World 9 Ball.
You see them sitting together at World 9 Ball Pre Meeting.

Did SVB take him under his wing? Help him out with some financial backing and also required some attitude changes of him.?
Reasoning:
SVB wants to win everything he can right now including the Masconi Cup. With MIke as a partner they could be a close number 1 ranking especially if they both do well at the world 9 ball.
With Mike having a couple of World Matches under his belt, SVB now a personal friend, and an attitude change he would be a automatic shoe in for the Masconi Cup.
If this is the case Mike is a very lucky person and has lots to thank SVB for.
JMHO
 
I've always had a tough time with Mike Duchene:
SVB has always been a class act.

But now since Mike grew a beard and I see SVB by his side.
It seems like he has changed his attitude towards the better.. Was the appearance a part of this new beginning?
Now SVB picked him up as his World Partner.
You see them flying out together to the World 9 Ball.
You see them sitting together at World 9 Ball Pre Meeting.

Did SVB take him under his wing? Help him out with some financial backing and also required some attitude changes of him.?
Reasoning:
SVB wants to win everything he can right now including the Masconi Cup. With MIke as a partner they could be a close number 1 ranking especially if they both do well at the world 9 ball.
With Mike having a couple of World Matches under his belt, SVB now a personal friend, and an attitude change he would be a automatic shoe in for the Masconi Cup.
If this is the case Mike is a very lucky person and has lots to thank SVB for.
JMHO

This is a good post. Mike is the only American that frequently beats Shane in competition and he has certainly won his respect as a player. I think your observation about Shane picking Mike for his World Cup of Pool partner is right on.

You are also right about it being a two way street because Mike is clearly starting to follow the global competition path that Shane has followed. I think that suggesting Shane has taken Mike under his wing would be inaccurate, but the fact is that Mike has a role model and a close friend in Shane, and this bodes well for him over the next few years.

We'll see how it all plays out soon.
 
Who knows about the interpersonal relationship - but it's clear that the more they compete with each other and around the world, the better their games will get.
 
Archer, Mills, Woodward, Deuel , Hatch, Oscar --- the guys who nearly never are among the last few in premier nine foot table events in America in 2014 or 2015. These guys aren't typically found in the last stages of Derby City, Turning Stone or the US Open 9-ball. Stepping up in competition is not what these guys need, although I feel confident Skyler Woodward will be a great player within a few years. Still, in rotation games, his track record on nine foot tables is pretty mediocre to date.

Rodney still has a strong top gear, occasionally strong enough to compete with the most elite internationals.

Justin Bergman had a major win against an elite international field at Hard Times in 2014, so there's at least some evidence he might be up to competition at the most elite level.

Of those you list, the only one I think would fare well in international competition is Justin Hall, 7th in the 2014 US Open 9-ball, 2nd at the US Open 10-ball, and 5th at the last Turning Stone event. Add his prodigious skills in both banks and one pocket and you've got a crazy-talented player capable of great things if he chose to get some international seasoning.

Face it, the US has just two players capable of shining at the highest level of international competition. Once you get past Shane and Mike, it's a steep drop to the rest of the American talent pool, possibly excepting Hall.

I really have to wonder what you're watching to conclude that so many of the guys who have been unsuccessful on American soil would find sudden success if they tried their luck against even tougher fields than they are used to.

The worst thing we American pool fans can do is be satisfied with what we've got. The place American pool pros hold in international competition is embarrassing, and when our guys try the WPA events, they have a poor track record of late. This can change, but if it changes, it will be the young guys who make it change, not the past-their-prime members of the old guard of American pool.

Back to my original point… If Hunter Lombardo is in the final 32 of the Worlds 9 ball tournament, I hardly think it is a stretch to think that… Archer, Morris, Duel, Mills, Bergman, Woodward, Oscar, Hall, etc…….. would have a GREAT chance to be competitive and go deep in this tournament!

Super Congrats to Hunter!
 
Archer, Mills, Woodward, Deuel , Hatch, Oscar --- the guys who nearly never are among the last few in premier nine foot table events in America in 2014 or 2015. These guys aren't typically found in the last stages of Derby City, Turning Stone or the US Open 9-ball. Stepping up in competition is not what these guys need, although I feel confident Skyler Woodward will be a great player within a few years. Still, in rotation games, his track record on nine foot tables is pretty mediocre to date.

Rodney still has a strong top gear, occasionally strong enough to compete with the most elite internationals.

Justin Bergman had a major win against an elite international field at Hard Times in 2014, so there's at least some evidence he might be up to competition at the most elite level.

Of those you list, the only one I think would fare well in international competition is Justin Hall, 7th in the 2014 US Open 9-ball, 2nd at the US Open 10-ball, and 5th at the last Turning Stone event. Add his prodigious skills in both banks and one pocket and you've got a crazy-talented player capable of great things if he chose to get some international seasoning.

Face it, the US has just two players capable of shining at the highest level of international competition. Once you get past Shane and Mike, it's a steep drop to the rest of the American talent pool, possibly excepting Hall.

I really have to wonder what you're watching to conclude that so many of the guys who have been unsuccessful on American soil would find sudden success if they tried their luck against even tougher fields than they are used to.

The worst thing we American pool fans can do is be satisfied with what we've got. The place American pool pros hold in international competition is embarrassing, and when our guys try the WPA events, they have a poor track record of late. This can change, but if it changes, it will be the young guys who make it change, not the past-their-prime members of the old guard of American pool.

+1 Excellent post. Impartial and realistic and telling it as it is



Back to my original point… If Hunter Lombardo is in the final 32 of the Worlds 9 ball tournament, I hardly think it is a stretch to think that… Archer, Morris, Duel, Mills, Bergman, Woodward, Oscar, Hall, etc…….. would have a GREAT chance to be competitive and go deep in this tournament!

Super Congrats to Hunter!

Sorry your knowledge, stats , facts are way off from sjm. He should take your title of "the Professor"
Linear extrapolation is just silly especially for 1 event. Kudos to Hunter-he did a great job getting into last 32 but we know many many Americans play above him.
Look at the last 32 below. No offence but Hunter would be near bottom of that last 32 group. I applaud Hunter for his guts and prsistence- this is probably his bst finish in international tourneys

33 Last 32 KIAMCO (Warren) YOUSEF (Jalal) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 8
34 Last 32 BIADO (Calro) PIN YI (Ko) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 9
35 Last 32 IMMONEN (Mika) KUN LIN (Wu) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 2
36 Last 32 MORRA (John) GRAY (Mark) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 1
37 Last 32 ALOISIUS (Yapp) IGNACIO (Jeffrey) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 6
38 Last 32 HAITAO (Liu) KAZAKIS (Alexander) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 12
39 Last 32 CHINAKHOV (Ruslan) CAN (Wang) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 13
40 Last 32 OUSCHAN (Albin) JIA QING (Wu) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 1
41 Last 32 PIN CHUNG (Ko) YUKIO (Akagariyama) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 13
42 Last 32 GRABE (Denis) DECHAINE (Mike) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 12
43 Last 32 ALCAIDE (David) LIAN HAN (Toh) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 1
44 Last 32 CHING CHIEH (Liu) SZEWCZYK (Wojciech) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 6
45 Last 32 YU LUNG (Chang) MEDENILLA (Oliver) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 8
46 Last 32 VAN BOENING (Shane) FRANCISCO (Diaz-Pizarro) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 9
47 Last 32 LOMBARDO (Hunter) ORCOLLO (Dennis) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 3
48 Last 32 APPLETON (Darren) EKONOMOPOULOS (Nick) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 2
 
+1 Excellent post. Impartial and realistic and telling it as it is





Sorry your knowledge, stats , facts are way off from sjm. He should take your title of "the Professor"
Linear extrapolation is just silly especially for 1 event. Kudos to Hunter-he did a great job getting into last 32 but we know many many Americans play above him.
Look at the last 32 below. No offence but Hunter would be near bottom of that last 32 group. I applaud Hunter for his guts and prsistence- this is probably his bst finish in international tourneys

33 Last 32 KIAMCO (Warren) YOUSEF (Jalal) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 8
34 Last 32 BIADO (Calro) PIN YI (Ko) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 9
35 Last 32 IMMONEN (Mika) KUN LIN (Wu) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 2
36 Last 32 MORRA (John) GRAY (Mark) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 1
37 Last 32 ALOISIUS (Yapp) IGNACIO (Jeffrey) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 6
38 Last 32 HAITAO (Liu) KAZAKIS (Alexander) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 12
39 Last 32 CHINAKHOV (Ruslan) CAN (Wang) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 13
40 Last 32 OUSCHAN (Albin) JIA QING (Wu) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 1
41 Last 32 PIN CHUNG (Ko) YUKIO (Akagariyama) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 13
42 Last 32 GRABE (Denis) DECHAINE (Mike) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 12
43 Last 32 ALCAIDE (David) LIAN HAN (Toh) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 1
44 Last 32 CHING CHIEH (Liu) SZEWCZYK (Wojciech) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 6
45 Last 32 YU LUNG (Chang) MEDENILLA (Oliver) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 8
46 Last 32 VAN BOENING (Shane) FRANCISCO (Diaz-Pizarro) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 9
47 Last 32 LOMBARDO (Hunter) ORCOLLO (Dennis) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 3
48 Last 32 APPLETON (Darren) EKONOMOPOULOS (Nick) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 2

How can you say that my list wouldn't be competitive and have a chance to finish well in a tournament that has Hunter Lombardo in the final 32?

Thats pretty much all the stats that I need isn't it..lol…. and super congrats to Hunter, but every player on my list plays better than he does.
 
+1 Excellent post. Impartial and realistic and telling it as it is





Sorry your knowledge, stats , facts are way off from sjm. He should take your title of "the Professor"
Linear extrapolation is just silly especially for 1 event. Kudos to Hunter-he did a great job getting into last 32 but we know many many Americans play above him.
Look at the last 32 below. No offence but Hunter would be near bottom of that last 32 group. I applaud Hunter for his guts and prsistence- this is probably his bst finish in international tourneys

33 Last 32 KIAMCO (Warren) YOUSEF (Jalal) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 8
34 Last 32 BIADO (Calro) PIN YI (Ko) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 9
35 Last 32 IMMONEN (Mika) KUN LIN (Wu) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 2
36 Last 32 MORRA (John) GRAY (Mark) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 1
37 Last 32 ALOISIUS (Yapp) IGNACIO (Jeffrey) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 6
38 Last 32 HAITAO (Liu) KAZAKIS (Alexander) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 12
39 Last 32 CHINAKHOV (Ruslan) CAN (Wang) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 13
40 Last 32 OUSCHAN (Albin) JIA QING (Wu) Sep 17, 2015 - 11:00 1
41 Last 32 PIN CHUNG (Ko) YUKIO (Akagariyama) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 13
42 Last 32 GRABE (Denis) DECHAINE (Mike) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 12
43 Last 32 ALCAIDE (David) LIAN HAN (Toh) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 1
44 Last 32 CHING CHIEH (Liu) SZEWCZYK (Wojciech) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 6
45 Last 32 YU LUNG (Chang) MEDENILLA (Oliver) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 8
46 Last 32 VAN BOENING (Shane) FRANCISCO (Diaz-Pizarro) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 9
47 Last 32 LOMBARDO (Hunter) ORCOLLO (Dennis) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 3
48 Last 32 APPLETON (Darren) EKONOMOPOULOS (Nick) Sep 17, 2015 - 13:30 2

One other quick thought…. The US only has 3 players playing the event, and all 3 are in the round of 32. Thats a pretty good showing, I wonder what would have happened if we had 10-13 players in the event like other countries… I suspect we would have had several more players in the top 32 making us competitive.. thats my only point.
 
One other quick thought…. The US only has 3 players playing the event, and all 3 are in the round of 32. Thats a pretty good showing, I wonder what would have happened if we had 10-13 players in the event like other countries… I suspect we would have had several more players in the top 32 making us competitive.. thats my only point.

Yes, it has been a long time coming. Most of the final "Mosconi 8" from 2014 went to play in at least one overseas WPA sanctioned event last year. None but Van Boening reached the knckout stage.

Nobody in their right mind would have bet against SVB and Dechaine reaching the knockout stage at the World Championships, but our three guys have a combined 9-1 match record so far and are all still in the mix.

Fantastic performance by the USA! Good luck tomorrow to Shane, Mike and Hunter on Thursday.
 
Back
Top