Would you take EVEN MONEY odds to BREAK AND RUN a 9 ball rack?

Fully agree $Bill, there is a proposition here for the casions to make money and advance the sport. The simpilest way to control it would be with wager limits just as they do on the tables where you have a minimum and maximum bet. You could have lower limit tables and 'high roller' tables. You could do it with few balls (maybe 6 ball) to speed things up. Casinos like the action fast. It could be done with various odds for various propositions, just like craps. Interesting concept ya got there Bill.
 
I throw some some tens at it just to see if I could do it. I know some guys that would do it for a hundred a rack at least.

Here's my proposition for the same table. Get any top pro and allow any amateur to play him.

The way it works is the more weight the amateur gets the worse his odds are and the more weight he give up the better his odds are. Lets say the spectrum runs from the challenger getting the break and all the balls to the challenger giving up the break and all the balls.

I could see a scenario where people are lined up figuring their chances with certain weight with lot's of betting going on.

The only problem I see is the potential to gaff the game.

At least the break and run is pretty hard to rig. You either do it or you don't.

John
 
Pelican,

If it's at the Carny then you know it isn't honest. LOL

A level table? Ball out of round? No light. Constant sharking by the hawker. And even when the fish wins the carny doesn't lose giving away those cheap dolls. And the more dolls he gives away, the more suckers, er players, he attracts.

Now you want an honest game at the carny play a little 3 card monte.

Jake
 
instroke said:
I throw some some tens at it just to see if I could do it. I know some guys that would do it for a hundred a rack at least.

Here's my proposition for the same table. Get any top pro and allow any amateur to play him.

The way it works is the more weight the amateur gets the worse his odds are and the more weight he give up the better his odds are. Lets say the spectrum runs from the challenger getting the break and all the balls to the challenger giving up the break and all the balls.

I could see a scenario where people are lined up figuring their chances with certain weight with lot's of betting going on.

The only problem I see is the potential to gaff the game.

At least the break and run is pretty hard to rig. You either do it or you don't.

John
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John just answered his own question when he said, The only problem I see is the potential to gaff the game.

That is why the two proposals I have made, IMO, can NOT be scammed. Running a rack for X amount of cash involves only one person and the house. And, as I have said, I believe the Ring Game concept can not be fixed. It is PURE GAMBLING and how many of us were not enthralled with Grady's DCC Ring Game?
 
instroke said:
I could see a scenario where people are lined up figuring their chances with certain weight with lot's of betting going on.

The only problem I see is the potential to gaff the game.

John
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The problem I see is the fact that I DON't see a scenario where people are lined up figuring their chances on pool at a casino. How do you lure Ma and Pa Kettle from the slot machines or Joe average that has played pool only a few times in his life and still doesn't know how to make a proper bridge. Ma and Pa Kettle don't play Blackjack, Craps, poker, or anything else because they don't know how, are too intimidated, or too cheap. You could make the odds 10,000-1 for them and it won't matter. Pool, as usual, is dealing with a relatively small audience of potential players that are even in the casino at any given time and an even smaller audience that would be willing to bet on themselves. Nine ball still wouldn't be a fast enough game for the casino. Maybe 3 ball would work, but it's still a small segment of people. I wouldn't even know where to start in handicapping that. The casino will make much more money on Ma, Pa, and Joe Avg. just the way they're doing it. Personally, I like going to a casino to get away from pool. There's always a pool room near by and you can always con some doofus into a game with much better odds than what's in favor of the casino.
 
Loby of Hotel X

longball said:
The problem I see is the fact that I DON't see a scenario where people are lined up figuring their chances on pool at a casino. How do you lure Ma and Pa Kettle from the slot machines or Joe average that has played pool only a few times in his life and still doesn't know how to make a proper bridge. Ma and Pa Kettle don't play Blackjack, Craps, poker, or anything else because they don't know how, are too intimidated, or too cheap. You could make the odds 10,000-1 for them and it won't matter. Pool, as usual, is dealing with a relatively small audience of potential players that are even in the casino at any given time and an even smaller audience that would be willing to bet on themselves. Nine ball still wouldn't be a fast enough game for the casino. Maybe 3 ball would work, but it's still a small segment of people. I wouldn't even know where to start in handicapping that. The casino will make much more money on Ma, Pa, and Joe Avg. just the way they're doing it. Personally, I like going to a casino to get away from pool. There's always a pool room near by and you can always con some doofus into a game with much better odds than what's in favor of the casino.
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Longball, you might have missed the frist post on this thread and maybe you didn't. The "Loby" of virtually all the hotels in Vegas has unused space. If I ran a casino in Vegas, I would love having something no other casino in the city had. Obviously your clientele for this gaming proposition would be limited. The optimal time to try something like this would be during a pool tournament. The Rivieara hosts many pool tournaments during the year. APA, BCA, etc. In marketing this is called targeting. Pool players are more likely to gamble on pool tables than slot machines.

I guess I was born with a positive attitude. How much would it cost the Rivieara to install the Diamond Pro table? How much would it cost to calculate the true odds? I can only see a positive outcome for the casino if this is done. Word of mouth will take care of your advertising, because you would be the only kid on the block with this unique game of chance.

I can see APA teams putting up, Their 7, to take a shot at the cash. Many teams would be better off putting up one of their 4s, as much sand-bagging as there is, lol.
 
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I like the idea. If MGM can put a tiger habitat in the lobby why not try a pool table during some of the peak tourney's. It would attract the players/spectators in for the tourney if nothing else. I'm sure the casino's can find a few MIT students to study the odds and profitability. The only addition that I would suggest is something to make the 'average' player feel he/she might at least break even. Something like - 10:1 for a pure run out or 9 on the snap; 1:1 for two or more balls made on the break; 2:1 for three or more balls. Again, I don't know if these odds are the right ones, but Kudos to Hemi for thinking out of the box.

MSN
 
msnumismatist said:
I like the idea. If MGM can put a tiger habitat in the lobby why not try a pool table during some of the peak tourney's. It would attract the players/spectators in for the tourney if nothing else. I'm sure the casino's can find a few MIT students to study the odds and profitability. The only addition that I would suggest is something to make the 'average' player feel he/she might at least break even. Something like - 10:1 for a pure run out or 9 on the snap; 1:1 for two or more balls made on the break; 2:1 for three or more balls. Again, I don't know if these odds are the right ones, but Kudos to Hemi for thinking out of the box.

MSN
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Very good points MSN. In my former drag racing days, this would be called, "Dialing In." The casino could do a MIT, good idea, although there is a NIT that they might want to use in Las Vegas, study of all the possible combinations to tweek the odds and even tempt the league player.
 
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This all sounds good on the computer screen and a fun way for everyone to mentally masturbate and get off on the idea, but at some point in order to have concrete proof to sell the concept to a casino, you'll need something to back it up. Why don't you just put some odds together and go to a variety of pool rooms and see what the locals will do. Approach the owner/mgr. about donating a table and table time for the good of charity, which proceeds will go to. Set the amount that they can bet from $1-$3 bucks with the winners getting a cash payout based on the odds and however you set it up. If locals can't or won't spring for a lousy couple of bucks for charity, then it's not appealing enough anywhere. Have a sign in the room, saying "Run a Rack" for charity and just see how many takers you have and what the reaction is. If you set the odds too low and you're paying out more than you're taking in, see if you can get them to donate the money back to the charity fund until you can rearrange the odds or appropriate game. Which means, marketing research can cost money so you need to have it up front just in case. Oh...and BTW, make sure you really do donate the money to charity and not scam/pocket it. If you don't have any good local or national charities that you're fond of, try the Longball memorial beer fund, I'll give you more information upon request.
 
HA HA that carny game brings back memories. When the carny came to town where i lived I could always win the big prizes at 2 games this pool game and the shoot out the star game. We just recently threw out most of the huge stuffed animals that I won at these two games for my kids since we have closed in the garage and ordered the Diamond pro. wooohooo can't wait all i have left to do is put down carpet and go pick up the table.
 
Pelican said:
I might would book that.

Here's you a money maker. Set up your table. Have the 1 - 4 balls racked in a diamond turned sideways, 1 in front, 4 in back, 2&3 on sides. Do not have to make a ball on the break. Run the four balls in rotation call pocket. Minimum bet $10 - Maximum bet $100. Bet is even money. Same player cannot win more than twice in the same day. It'll make you a fortune even on a bar box.
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This is the setup that makes me a HERO every year on the boardwalk when my family is on vacation is Ocean City Md.

$2 bet gets you a small stuffed animal, $5 bet gets you choice of all the stuffed animals. It's not just my immediate family that goes, so we usually have 6 to 8 children there.

Bar box size tables. Only at this place you don't have to shoot them in rotation. You are limited to two prizes per day, but by the end of the week my daughter and all of my nieces and nephews have a stuffed animal or two.

I've stood there and watched. This place just rakes in the money. They even seem to like it to some degree when I show up. While I'm shooting it seems to attract a crowd and the barker emphasizes how easy it is. When I'm done, the people are lined up.

Now don't all you folks go there and put this place out of business, because I can't throw darts worth a darn!

I love the looks on the children's faces when they get to pick choice of any stuffed animal there, then I get BIG HUGS.

JR
 
Yeah i always loved the look on their face when you run a rack or too or when they can not find any of the red star in the shooting gallery. One year they actually banned me from both games before the end of the fair. HA HA HA. I had won almost all of their big prizes and given them to any kid walking by.
 
If I could set this up at a casino. Give me 10 tables. Must make a ball on the break, no ball in hand. Even money. Top pro's not eligible. Must run the first 4 balls. The house would make a killing. The top pro's only run out about 30% overall. Now if you get ball in hand and don't have to make a ball on the break, I'll take 10 to 1 odds and play some. Sam
 
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