Wrist Turn

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A common problem amongst amateurs and even professionals. The difference between the two? Professionals learn to adjust for their wrist turning. If humans didn't have wrists, we would be far more accurate in striking the cue ball. The wrist can turn in all directions making it unpredictable.

CJ has made a lot of posts and some threads about the wrist. What he says goes against what I do, but when you whittle it down, both techniques are to serve the same purpose... Hitting the white where you intend. And who can argue with his resume?

I am quite fortunate as a pool player to have wrists that are really limited in their movement. They don't bend half as much as most people's. No matter how much I try they just aren't very flexible.

So onto how I make the wrist compliment my cue action...

The key for me is allowing the wrist to hang naturally. That means getting a mirror and getting down without a cue and noticing how the wrist naturally hangs. For me this is straight down, so the hand and forearm create a straight line down towards the thumb. This is the simple part. I strive to create this straight line all throughout the cue action. On the pull back and on the delivery phase. Because I grip the cue firm, and have it snug against the webbing between thumb and index finger this isn't possible to do without some manipulation at the wrist. As I pull back the wrist wants to cock forwards so I have to counteract it by cocking it back as I pull back. Again a mirror can help you see this.

So, if you are having issues with turning your wrist simple check your hand and forearms natural angle then practice keeping this angle between the two throughout the stroke by manipulating the wrist to your advantage.

Any questions... Fire away.
 

larry732

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To help keeping everything in line try pointing your thumb straight down, that will keep your wrist from turning and over gripping the cue. Also allows cue to come all the way back in the backstroke.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Everyone's arm is not in the same 'neutral' position as it relates to being in a pronated or supinated position. Some individual's thumbs turn in, others out & others more in a straight forward position. That is an exaggeration explanation.

That being the case one's body alignment relative to the cue line can effect what is natural & 'neutral' when the hand is connected to the cue AND how one connects to the cue can dictate one's body position in trying to reach that all encompassing 'equilibrium'.

You, Pidge, may be trying to maximize wrist movement on the proper line.

Another approach taken by some is to minimize wrist movement as much as possible & when one does that it is sometimes not neutral & in line.

As you say some are better than others at 'adjusting' for such specific 'quirks'.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just pointing out that your way may not be THE way of many others.

I thinks the most important aspect is getting it all fine tuned to how one connects to the cue & you indicated how you do so.

I found that when I was trying out CJ's version of TOI that I naturally gravitated to a more firm grip & that in doing so I had to rotate my hand clockwise to get & keep the cue stroking in the track or slot.

Just some things to keep in mind.

It is very rare that changing one thing does not effect more than ONE thing.

Best 2 You & ALL.
 
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Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone's arm is not in the same 'neutral' position as it relates to being in a pronated or supinated position. Some individual's thumbs turn in, others out & others more in a straight forward position. That is an exaggeration explanation.

That being the case one's body alignment relative to the cue line can effect what is natural & 'neutral' when the hand is connected to the cue AND how one connects to the cue can dictate one's body position in trying to reach that all encompassing 'equilibrium'.

You, Pidge, may be trying to maximize wrist movement on the proper line.

Another approach taken by some is to minimize wrist movement as much as possible & when one does that it is sometimes not neutral & in line.

As you say some are better than others at 'adjusting' for such specific 'quirks'.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just pointing out that your way may not be THE way of many others.

I thinks the most important aspect is getting it all fine tuned to how one connects to the cue & you indicated how you do so.

I found that when I was trying out CJ's version of TOI that I naturally gravitated to a more firm grip & that in doing so I had to rotate my hand clockwise to get & keep the cue stroking in the track or slot.

Just some things to keep in mind.

It is very rare that changing one thing does not effect more than ONE thing.

Best 2 You & ALL.
I'm not asking anyone to do as I do. Like I said my wrists are very stiff which really helps me I feel in Cueing accurately. Other with more flexible wrists may not benefit from my insights. I know that if any person went to any of the instructors I've used and they saw a wrist that didn't hang as it naturally does that would be the first thing they would analyze and see if it is causing more problems that it solves. It's usually the first. I see a few problems with a rigid wrist. First is the ability to create that snapping motion which helps massively with spinning white. A simple flick of the wrist can increase the cues speed at the vital moment.

I asked people to check how their wrist naturally hangs. This was for good reason. I don't want anyone to stray away from what comes naturally to them. I strongly believe in working with what God gave you for pool. For some the straight line from the elbow down to the hand it may cross through their pinky, or any of the other fingers. If you imagine this line (which a lot of snooker coaches will use computer software for) all throughout the stroke going through the same part of the hand throughout the cue action then I believe it will help a players consistency and white ball striking accuracy. I've seen players only able to make 30-50 breaks in snooker go and start making 60,70 and even 80 breaks after a couple of weeks practicing this.

I agree with what you say, my way is definitely not the way for everyone reading this. I stand differently to everyone on this site for a start, no one is a carbon copy of me. But maybe, just maybe, me shedding some light on what works for me might help someone, even if it's just 1 person I'll be happy.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To help keeping everything in line try pointing your thumb straight down, that will keep your wrist from turning and over gripping the cue. Also allows cue to come all the way back in the backstroke.
Another little trick is to release the pinky from the cue and keep it off throughout. I've heard of several players that do this on long shots.
 

GoldenFlash

Banned
Good to see you mention this

I started out young at age 15 and with no help, except a little from Danny Jones, I developed an extremely bad wrist turning motion on the follow through and it took me some years of struggling to get it out.
I remember seeing an instructional video by Jimmy Rempe years ago wherein he was advocating a wrist turn (right or left) at the end of the stroke to aid in reducing throw and help the ball go in the pocket.
I thought it was nuts, but there he was, a world champion, promoting such a thing.
I ignored it.
I wonder if others have ever seen that thing. Seems like Jon Jones was on it with him. :confused:
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I'm not asking anyone to do as I do. Like I said my wrists are very stiff which really helps me I feel in Cueing accurately. Other with more flexible wrists may not benefit from my insights. I know that if any person went to any of the instructors I've used and they saw a wrist that didn't hang as it naturally does that would be the first thing they would analyze and see if it is causing more problems that it solves. It's usually the first. I see a few problems with a rigid wrist. First is the ability to create that snapping motion which helps massively with spinning white. A simple flick of the wrist can increase the cues speed at the vital moment.

I asked people to check how their wrist naturally hangs. This was for good reason. I don't want anyone to stray away from what comes naturally to them. I strongly believe in working with what God gave you for pool. For some the straight line from the elbow down to the hand it may cross through their pinky, or any of the other fingers. If you imagine this line (which a lot of snooker coaches will use computer software for) all throughout the stroke going through the same part of the hand throughout the cue action then I believe it will help a players consistency and white ball striking accuracy. I've seen players only able to make 30-50 breaks in snooker go and start making 60,70 and even 80 breaks after a couple of weeks practicing this.

I agree with what you say, my way is definitely not the way for everyone reading this. I stand differently to everyone on this site for a start, no one is a carbon copy of me. But maybe, just maybe, me shedding some light on what works for me might help someone, even if it's just 1 person I'll be happy.

Pidge,

I agree with you.

Sometimes it's good to have a few qualifiers is all.

Another one is that often many say things with a full pendulum stroke in mind & that is not mentioned & an old poll seemed to indicate that only about 30% played with a full pendulum stroke.

To me that means that much of what is put out falls on or perhaps should fall on deaf ears as some of if not much does not apply to the stroke that they are using. That means that the suggestion, info, or whatever might do them more harm than good.

It's a bit of a tough situation but with some qualifiers things might be better &/or foster better discussion.

Best 2 Ya.
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A common problem amongst amateurs and even professionals. The difference between the two? Professionals learn to adjust for their wrist turning. If humans didn't have wrists, we would be far more accurate in striking the cue ball. The wrist can turn in all directions making it unpredictable.

CJ has made a lot of posts and some threads about the wrist. What he says goes against what I do, but when you whittle it down, both techniques are to serve the same purpose... Hitting the white where you intend. And who can argue with his resume?

I am quite fortunate as a pool player to have wrists that are really limited in their movement. They don't bend half as much as most people's. No matter how much I try they just aren't very flexible.

So onto how I make the wrist compliment my cue action...

The key for me is allowing the wrist to hang naturally. That means getting a mirror and getting down without a cue and noticing how the wrist naturally hangs. For me this is straight down, so the hand and forearm create a straight line down towards the thumb. This is the simple part. I strive to create this straight line all throughout the cue action. On the pull back and on the delivery phase. Because I grip the cue firm, and have it snug against the webbing between thumb and index finger this isn't possible to do without some manipulation at the wrist. As I pull back the wrist wants to cock forwards so I have to counteract it by cocking it back as I pull back. Again a mirror can help you see this.

So, if you are having issues with turning your wrist simple check your hand and forearms natural angle then practice keeping this angle between the two throughout the stroke by manipulating the wrist to your advantage.

Any questions... Fire away.

Not many pro exaggeratedly turn their wrist. the filipinos style actually not wrist-turning either.

many use the "snooker" grip technique: loose the grip at backstroke and tighten it at moment of impact. this technique helps players accelerate the cue at the right moment of impact and create insane action on the cb. Check out Chris Melling or Ronnie Alcano or almost any snooker player for a clear view.

However, they don't tighten the grip on all shots, only on shot that need a bigger stroke.

The action of tightening the grip gives an impression that the wrist is twisting. It may actually twist, but it's just a side effect. the main point is grip pressure from loose to tight during the stroke.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pidge,

I agree with you.

Sometimes it's good to have a few qualifiers is all.

Another one is that often many say things with a full pendulum stroke in mind & that is not mentioned & an old poll seemed to indicate that only about 30% played with a full pendulum stroke.

To me that means that much of what is put out falls on or perhaps should fall on deaf ears as some of if not much does not apply to the stroke that they are using. That means that the suggestion, info, or whatever might do them more harm than good.

It's a bit of a tough situation but with some qualifiers things might be better &/or foster better discussion.

Best 2 Ya.
Pendulum, piston, j, ABC... It doesn't matter. I use a variety of any stroke imaginable when playing. Not just one. But I use just one wrist position and one wrist movement.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not many pro exaggeratedly turn their wrist. the filipinos style actually not wrist-turning either.

many use the "snooker" grip technique: loose the grip at backstroke and tighten it at moment of impact. this technique helps players accelerate the cue at the right moment of impact and create insane action on the cb. Check out Chris Melling or Ronnie Alcano or almost any snooker player for a clear view.

However, they don't tighten the grip on all shots, only on shot that need a bigger stroke.

The action of tightening the grip gives an impression that the wrist is twisting. It may actually twist, but it's just a side effect. the main point is grip pressure from loose to tight during the stroke.
Stephen Lee, even though he is a cheating disgrace to snooker used to say he tightened the grip at impact. Which reminds me, I wonder how he is getting on serving burgers at McDonald's. Tightening the grip just before contact actually zaps all the action out of the cue ball because it slows the cue right down, creates tension in the forearm and biceps which slows the entire arm down. Many clench the cue after the white is long gone but they think they're doing it at impact.

Jimmy white is a player that comes to mind with turning the wrist. You can actually see the grain of the ash on his cue turning over. I used to think it was an optical lesion but on closer inspection it's because he turns his wrist.

I've spoken with Ronnie , Ken, Steve, and quite a lot of others on the grip and all have said they grip at the same pressure and only clench on the power shots as th he hand hits the chest... To stop the cue from flying down table.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Pendulum, piston, j, ABC... It doesn't matter. I use a variety of any stroke imaginable when playing. Not just one. But I use just one wrist position and one wrist movement.

I find that a bit difficult to see. I mean the same connection to cue for each type of stroke.

To me, that would mean that something is fighting something.

I too use different strokes at times but my connection to the cue varies even if just slightly.

Grip 'pressure' change even has an effect.

I guess that's why we are all not the same cookies cut from the same cutter.

Best Wishes.

PS Do you think your stance has something to do with it? If so, could you perhaps PM me with how you're standing. I'm not sure if I am remembering it correctly. Thanks if you choose to do that.
 
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Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Same grip, each and every time. Power shots or finesse, jacked up or jumping, draw or follow, even breaking. The cue slots into my hand the same for every shot, it's the only way I know.
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tightening the grip just before contact actually zaps all the action out of the cue ball because it slows the cue right down, creates tension in the forearm and biceps which slows the entire arm down. Many clench the cue after the white is long gone but they think they're doing it at impact.

Did you give it a try ?

Here is the video instruction from Gareth Potts. Enjoys.

https://youtu.be/esxnl7ZsFjE?list=PLj1kypAWfgD3PJeHN7P5QhNjDb1R512sl

P/S: don't worry about stephen lee. He lives well doing exhibitions and coaching in China. ;)
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did you give it a try ?

Here is the video instruction from Gareth Potts. Enjoys.

https://youtu.be/esxnl7ZsFjE?list=PLj1kypAWfgD3PJeHN7P5QhNjDb1R512sl

P/S: don't worry about stephen lee. He lives well doing exhibitions and coaching in China. ;)
Gareth is an excellent player but being an excellent player doesn't equate to being able to express yourself clearly and say what you really mean. I've spoken to Gareth it person on this very subject. I will admit he is one of the better teachers that play at a high level, but he has nothing on the top instructors in the country that play no where near his level.

I've expressed my thoughts in another thread about how players who make it to the top develop unique techniques, which when tried by another player can not help them one bit. I think tightening the grip is a unique technique personally.

There is a cue out on the market with a spring in it and if you use bad technique the spring bends and you miscued. I've seen Gareth play with one of these cues... He didn't miscue, but the cue bent after the ball was gone. I own one of these cues and have tried tightening the grip to see if it bends... I miscued. I mind it shows that he is tightening the grip after contact otherwise he wouldn't get a clean hit with the training cue.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Gareth is an excellent player but being an excellent player doesn't equate to being able to express yourself clearly and say what you really mean. I've spoken to Gareth it person on this very subject. I will admit he is one of the better teachers that play at a high level, but he has nothing on the top instructors in the country that play no where near his level.

I've expressed my thoughts in another thread about how players who make it to the top develop unique techniques, which when tried by another player can not help them one bit. I think tightening the grip is a unique technique personally.

There is a cue out on the market with a spring in it and if you use bad technique the spring bends and you miscued. I've seen Gareth play with one of these cues... He didn't miscue, but the cue bent after the ball was gone. I own one of these cues and have tried tightening the grip to see if it bends... I miscued. I mind it shows that he is tightening the grip after contact otherwise he wouldn't get a clean hit with the training cue.

It might be possible that some can tighten & not cause the cue to go off line.

I could see a scenario where one would hold the cue tightly, relax, stroke & go back to the tightness & perhaps not have the cue go off line.

I think that would be a somewhat rarity, but possible.
 

Zphix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A common problem amongst amateurs and even professionals. The difference between the two? Professionals learn to adjust for their wrist turning. If humans didn't have wrists, we would be far more accurate in striking the cue ball. The wrist can turn in all directions making it unpredictable.

CJ has made a lot of posts and some threads about the wrist. What he says goes against what I do, but when you whittle it down, both techniques are to serve the same purpose... Hitting the white where you intend. And who can argue with his resume?

I am quite fortunate as a pool player to have wrists that are really limited in their movement. They don't bend half as much as most people's. No matter how much I try they just aren't very flexible.

So onto how I make the wrist compliment my cue action...

The key for me is allowing the wrist to hang naturally. That means getting a mirror and getting down without a cue and noticing how the wrist naturally hangs. For me this is straight down, so the hand and forearm create a straight line down towards the thumb. This is the simple part. I strive to create this straight line all throughout the cue action. On the pull back and on the delivery phase. Because I grip the cue firm, and have it snug against the webbing between thumb and index finger this isn't possible to do without some manipulation at the wrist. As I pull back the wrist wants to cock forwards so I have to counteract it by cocking it back as I pull back. Again a mirror can help you see this.

So, if you are having issues with turning your wrist simple check your hand and forearms natural angle then practice keeping this angle between the two throughout the stroke by manipulating the wrist to your advantage.

Any questions... Fire away.

Excellent post Pidge.

As I've been putting alot of time in straightening my stroke out to near perfection I've been focusing on the mechanics of the arm.

What I've found is that when I use my wrist as the basis of my arm swing my wrist will move slightly; enough to stop the cue from moving straight and smooth. But, if I focus on my elbow or forearm as the basis of my stroke motion I find that my wrist doesn't move at all.

If that makes sense. It certainly does the job for me.
 

Ak147

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As I pull back the wrist wants to cock forwards so I have to counteract it by cocking it back as I pull back. Again a mirror can help you see this.


Any questions... Fire away.

Are you suggesting to move wrist slightly backwards on backswing? Some snooker coach recommends to cock wrist outwards to stop twisting of the wrist on delivery.

For some reason by cue turns slightly towards by back leg (i use snooker like stance) and results in angled delivery.
 

Chi2dxa

Lost over C&D Triangle
Silver Member
A common problem amongst amateurs and even professionals. The difference between the two? Professionals learn to adjust for their wrist turning. If humans didn't have wrists, we would be far more accurate in striking the cue ball. The wrist can turn in all directions making it unpredictable.

CJ has made a lot of posts and some threads about the wrist. What he says goes against what I do, but when you whittle it down, both techniques are to serve the same purpose... Hitting the white where you intend. And who can argue with his resume?

I am quite fortunate as a pool player to have wrists that are really limited in their movement. They don't bend half as much as most people's. No matter how much I try they just aren't very flexible.

So onto how I make the wrist compliment my cue action...

The key for me is allowing the wrist to hang naturally. That means getting a mirror and getting down without a cue and noticing how the wrist naturally hangs. For me this is straight down, so the hand and forearm create a straight line down towards the thumb. This is the simple part. I strive to create this straight line all throughout the cue action. On the pull back and on the delivery phase. Because I grip the cue firm, and have it snug against the webbing between thumb and index finger this isn't possible to do without some manipulation at the wrist. As I pull back the wrist wants to cock forwards so I have to counteract it by cocking it back as I pull back. Again a mirror can help you see this.

So, if you are having issues with turning your wrist simple check your hand and forearms natural angle then practice keeping this angle between the two throughout the stroke by manipulating the wrist to your advantage.

Any questions... Fire away.

I tend to get the friendly roll into the pockets when I tuck and roll otherwise my balls get hung up in the pocket. The tuck and roll does not affect my accuracy one bit.
 
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