WRISTS - Views from the cheap seats

[nobcitypool]

The putter has a lofted face so there's no need to hit "up" on the ball.

You don't hit down on the putter either, do you? I think John was making the point of hitting level. He referenced "level cue". I believe there are ample videos out there showing the effects of hitting down on a CB when the cue tip isn't perfectly centered.

 

[cookie man]

In the second frame the ball is already moving. So the tip has already struck.

Like I said, I have put two and two together, but I come up with a different answer than you have. I see nothing but a normally level stick, an ordinary pendulum stroke, and the CB struck a little above center. That there should be follow on the CB from that distance is unsurprising. I don't see him shooting down on the CB.

We will just have to disagree.

Its your evidence, can't make you believe it or understand it, but it is your evidence. Look at your pictures and watch the video, pretty clear.

 

[JoeW]

Fixed link...

http://billiards.colostate.edu/PBReview/ShootLikePros.htm

Haven't finished reading yet but I am getting excited about what I am reading! Thanks Joe!

Ken

p.s. I wonder why/how I skipped over this considering the number of times I have dug through Dr. Dave's site :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

In the “Shoot like the Pros” article I missed the idea of using the back hand to press the tip of the cue stick into the bridge. Using CJ’s technique I found that a shorter stroke is needed. This helps to keep the stick on line.

More importantly with CJ’s technique the player uses the bridge hand as a fulcrum rather than as a guide. I could not figure out why pros often use such a long bridge. It is though the bridge as a guide did not do anything. It now appears this is indeed the case. The bridge is used as a fulcrum for a lever and the straightness of the stroke is accomplished by pressing down, not through the bridge.

It does require a new way of thinking to shoot like this but it also seems to improve my consistency. In addition, I find that I am much more confident of my stroke. I have not determined how often this type of stroke is needed relative to my former stroke but I suspect it will pretty much replace my old way of shooting, except for long draw shots.

I sincerely think that CJ has added a major piece to the puzzle for long term consistency. When mastered, I would think that 14.1 players would use it almost exclusively because of the fine increments in control.

Certainly there are other ways to obtain this control but CJ certainly has an alternative that appears to be used by many players.

 

[sfleinen]

In the “Shoot like the Pros” article I missed the idea of using the back hand to press the tip of the cue stick into the bridge. Using CJ’s technique I found that a shorter stroke is needed. This helps to keep the stick on line.

More importantly with CJ’s technique the player uses the bridge hand as a fulcrum rather than as a guide. I could not figure out why pros often use such a long bridge. It is though the bridge as a guide did not do anything. It now appears this is indeed the case. The bridge is used as a fulcrum for a lever and the straightness of the stroke is accomplished by pressing down, not through the bridge.

It does require a new way of thinking to shoot like this but it also seems to improve my consistency. In addition, I find that I am much more confident of my stroke. I have not determined how often this type of stroke is needed relative to my former stroke but I suspect it will pretty much replace my old way of shooting, except for long draw shots.

I sincerely think that CJ has added a major piece to the puzzle for long term consistency. When mastered, I would think that 14.1 players would use it almost exclusively because of the fine increments in control.

Certainly there are other ways to obtain this control but CJ certainly has an alternative that appears to be used by many players.

Hi Joe:

Not sure if you saw it, but I tried my best to offer an alternative / detailed explanation in the "Think I've figured out CJ Wiley's 'hammer stroke' method of delivering the cue" thread.

It is a very unique way of delivering the cue, and like you say, the key is pressing down (and not through) the bridge hand. It's very accurate, shot-line-wise.

But at the moment, I disagree with the bolded above. I find that I lost -- not gained -- control. Because of the "pressure" one is applying as part-and-parcel of this stroke, I lost that nice feather-like touch needed in 14.1 and one pocket. It could be that a long adaptation period awaits me; not sure. But that was the immediate impression I had after shooting several hours with it -- accurate, but lost that fine-grained touch and feel.

-Sean

 

[JoeW]

Good to hear your findings Sean. I too found it a cumbersome technique but it seems like I could sense that finer control would be forthcoming. I only have a few hours using it and I found that when I use a longer bridge the options for subtle speed control were improved. I haven't worked with it very much (just had surgery and will be recovering for a few more days). Time will tell when I can get to the table and put in the hours that you have.

I play 14.1 quite a bit when there is no one around but I haven't played much in the last few days. 8-Ball is the game of choice in the room where I play except for one friend who like 15 ball rotation. So I play 14.1 by my self.

PS (I get one PS) I did see your thread and agreed with it. Thanks for your efforts.

 

[sfleinen]

Good to hear your findings Sean. I too found it a cumbersome technique but it seems like I could sense that finer control would be forthcoming. I only have a few hours using it and I found that when I use a longer bridge the options for subtle speed control were improved. I haven't worked with it very much (just had surgery and will be recovering for a few more days). Time will tell when I can get to the table and put in the hours that you have.

I play 14.1 quite a bit when there is no one around but I haven't played much in the last few days. 8-Ball is the game of choice in the room where I play except for one friend who like 15 ball rotation. So I play 14.1 by my self.

PS (I get one PS) I did see your thread and agreed with it. Thanks for your efforts.

Glad to hear the surgery went well, Joe. Wish I was closer to the FL area; I would welcome the opportunity to join you in those 14.1 sessions, if offered. (And everyone knows the weather's better there at this time of year than here in NY!)

Trying new things is always inspiring. In many ways, it can be the thing that gets one out of the house to go play. (That's my biggest problem -- to being able to get out to play more than once or twice a week, vs. being "strapped in" at my little network operations center at home, working on customer issues.) I'm quite happy with my current cue delivery, but having a "list" of things written down that I want to try at the table can be very inspiring, especially as that list grows.

Take care of yourself, and keep experiementin'. :thumbup:

-Sean

 

[JoeW]

Sean: I live in Leesburg Fl about one hour from Disney. If you are down this way I would very much like playing some. Invitation is open for any time you are in the area. So now you have another reason for getting out of all that snow. I grew up in Western NY and lived in Ohio for 30 years. I have been in Fl for three years now and have not seen any snow in that time. Absolutely love it.

 

[Mikjary]

After using the technique for a while, I'm starting to develop a fine tuning with my fingers. My grip is firm, but adequate to get any amount of stroke necessary for each shot.

I may not necessarily mimic CJ's stroke and will probably fashion my own style from it. The basics of a cocked/locked wrist and pushing through the cue ball will remain. Also the idea of breaking the wrist may be earlier in the stroke ala Shane. I find this to be easier for drawing the cue ball long distances. For cinching balls I will rely on CJ's stroke completely, start to finish. It is rock solid when done correctly.

Best,
Mike

 

[swest]

Its your evidence, can't make you believe it or understand it, but it is your evidence. Look at your pictures and watch the video, pretty clear.

Well, it's not my evidence. I just isolated the frames.

As far as 'understand' goes, I understand what I see, and what I see is a level cue with a pendulum stroke that causes the cue tip to drop slightly after the strike. I'm not sure why you don't see that, but, like I said, we'll just have to disagree about what we are seeing, I guess. Pretty clear.

 

[swest]

Nevertheless, I did read JoeW's article, and I am reading through sfleinen's restatement of CJ's 'hammer' analogy, and I think I am understanding the point of it a little more all the time.