WTB Murnak or Barton Case

:smile::smile::smile::smile::smile: Hmmmmm......... all I can say to that is , I'm glad you know when you have a quality case on hand.:smile::smile::smile::smile:

Good luck and a bump with your search JMW!

Well actually I just like to have it available for when customers come in so that they can see the differences for themselves. Most customers who make it to my shop have never actually seen a Murnak in person or a Whitten, Justis, Fellini, etc.... So I let them handle the cases from my collection and make their own judgement as to where we stack up in comparison.

I definitely am very aware of the quality of each case in my shop. Since I take all of them apart I know as much about them as the people who made them.

Having them to reference is very important to me. Same as when Ford buys a Chevy to tear it down and learn from it. The end result is that we learn to build better cases.

A few months ago I thought I had learned all that I could from them and had decided to sell them off. Karen would like to sell them off since they collect dust. The other day though I had a customer in the shop and that customer spent about 30 minutes going through the cases and getting a hands-on education about each one. This type of experience cuts right through all the hype and pretty pictures and allows a person to just experience using their senses. At that moment I knew that I can't sell these cases. They are worth far more to me and my staff and my customers than I could ever get for them.
 
cases

Like I said ,My opinion only.And john barton I got your pm. Question? WHY in your wave cases the quality of the vinal exteriors,is not like the better grade a porper case with much better grade vinal exteriors porper uses. Is it called cost cuts.
And you put a poison break jump or a fury break jump with the rubber wrap,it gets stuck inside your interior and you have to put a cover over the rubber wrap. And a justis or murnak or a porper you don't have this problem. And please remember this is my opinion only. This is america where there is FREEDOM of speach.Hear me john ,my opinion,and freedom of speech.
Thats whats its all about John. I don't care for you or your cases. Understand .Fact there. Not opinion. And for everyone who chimed in about cell phones and computors.Like I said cases.cases cases,cases,My opinion.
Have a great night.
 
Well actually I just like to have it available for when customers come in so that they can see the differences for themselves. Most customers who make it to my shop have never actually seen a Murnak in person or a Whitten, Justis, Fellini, etc.... So I let them handle the cases from my collection and make their own judgement as to where we stack up in comparison.

I definitely am very aware of the quality of each case in my shop. Since I take all of them apart I know as much about them as the people who made them.

Having them to reference is very important to me. Same as when Ford buys a Chevy to tear it down and learn from it. The end result is that we learn to build better cases.

A few months ago I thought I had learned all that I could from them and had decided to sell them off. Karen would like to sell them off since they collect dust. The other day though I had a customer in the shop and that customer spent about 30 minutes going through the cases and getting a hands-on education about each one. This type of experience cuts right through all the hype and pretty pictures and allows a person to just experience using their senses. At that moment I knew that I can't sell these cases. They are worth far more to me and my staff and my customers than I could ever get for them.

John, I have to agree that having the case in your shop is a great idea for when you have someone in the shop..I would know, cos I was the fellow that spent half an hour going through those cases with you and getting lessons from you last week :) I really do encourage any case enthusiast who happens to be in that part of the world to contact John and see if he's available to accommodate you for a quick visit. I just got into the pool scene recently so I haven't seen any justis, murnak, Fellini or it's George cases in flesh..he had All these cases lying beside his pool table and he'd go through all the iconic cases one by one with me...think his got about 20 different cases from other makers...some really vintage ones as well..he takes these cases apart then reassembles them, this man has OCD...good for us the customers, not so good for Karen and his stuff... :)

Not the most apt thread to write this but since I'm at it I'd like to say a huge thank you to Karen and
John for the airport pick up, shop and case tour, burger and interesting pool game ;) I'll see ya soon bud!
 
Like I said ,My opinion only.And john barton I got your pm. Question? WHY in your wave cases the quality of the vinal exteriors,is not like the better grade a porper case with much better grade vinal exteriors porper uses. Is it called cost cuts.
And you put a poison break jump or a fury break jump with the rubber wrap,it gets stuck inside your interior and you have to put a cover over the rubber wrap. And a justis or murnak or a porper you don't have this problem. And please remember this is my opinion only. This is america where there is FREEDOM of speach.Hear me john ,my opinion,and freedom of speech.
Thats whats its all about John. I don't care for you or your cases. Understand .Fact there. Not opinion. And for everyone who chimed in about cell phones and computors.Like I said cases.cases cases,cases,My opinion.
Have a great night.

You got a pm because I consider it to be rude for you to come in the thread where a customer is expressing his desire to own a "Barton" or a Murnak to advertise for Justis. I merely asked you not to do that just as you wouldn't want it done to you. If you put up a thread asking about buying a certain brand you might not want people telling you to go buy another one instead. Certainly the maker of that brand wouldn't want people trying to steer you away from the brand you are looking for.

Yes, you have freedom of speech. Except that when you signed up to be a member of this forum you also agreed to give up a little freedom of speech in order to abide by the rules of this forum. I'd say your actions are borderline. But in any event they are simply rude whether forbidden by the rules or not.

Now that we have that out of the way let's go ahead and talk about your "opinions" concerning the materials we use in our products.

You asked this "Question? WHY in your wave cases the quality of the vinal exteriors,is not like the better grade a porper case with much better grade vinal exteriors porper uses. Is it called cost cuts."

So I don't recall that you have ever been involved in my production? I don't remember you tagging along on my buying trips to source the materials we use in our cases. I certainly don't remember ever considering what type of vinyl Porper uses when deciding on the materials to use for our cases. The way I decide to use a material is based on whether it's durable and fit for the purpose. Given that there are about 100000322433 kinds of vinyl out there it's frankly impossible to make 100% apples to apples comparisons between them. I can tell that what we use is furniture and shoe grade which means it's used to make shoes and furniture. That works for me on the durability scale. Faux leather is generally separated into either Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) or Polyethylene Urethane (PU). PU is generally more flexible and resistant to cold weather. It's also generally much more expensive. We use mostly PU and sometimes PVC depending on the actual material and application. I would bet that the material we use costs as much or more as what Porper uses, comparatively speaking and adjusted for different cost-of-living areas. In other words if I had some of the exact same material Porper uses here in China I'd bet that ours costs more than the equivalent of Porper's. Can't say for sure but I feel confident about that.

Now, what was the second point? Oh, the fact that the grippy grips now in fashion sometimes get stuck in our cases. Well that's true. If someone wants to use a cue with rubber grips then our cases aren't the best thing for them. A simple sleeve takes care of it and they can have the protection we offer and the use of the case. It takes five seconds to put the sleeve on and insert it into the case and five seconds to remove it. I timed it.

I am however in the process of developing a removable interior where the user can switch to an interior that allows the rubber grips. That will take a while though to filter into the market and I don't know that they will ever be offered in all of our cases.

I am still dealing with the best way to balance protection against ease of use when it comes to the rubber grips. I know that they are a fad now and I hope that this fad dies out soon. If not I will have to adapt how we make cases or provide ten second solutions with every case.

So if you want to use a case that is loose enough for your rubber grip then by all means get that. It also means that you forgo a lot of other protection that we build into our cases. Life is about tradeoffs isn't it? You are certainly free to choose what to spend your money on.

Got anything else you'd like to discuss about my business? I will be happy to let you tag along next time we go to the leather market so you can make notes about the cost of materials. It helps to have facts when you spout opinions that you would like people to believe represent factual information.

Just let me know when you land in Xiamen China and I will pick you up at the airport.

Best,

John Barton, Earthling. (although now scientists speculate that MAYBE our DNA came from meteors........but I guess I am still an Earthling since I was born here, made on Earth and all that.)
 
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You got a pm because I consider it to be rude for you to come in the thread where a customer is expressing his desire to own a "Barton" or a Murnak to advertise for Justis. I merely asked you not to do that just as you wouldn't want it done to you. If you put up a thread asking about buying a certain brand you might not want people telling you to go buy another one instead. Certainly the maker of that brand wouldn't want people trying to steer you away from the brand you are looking for.

Yes, you have freedom of speech. Except that when you signed up to be a member of this forum you also agreed to give up a little freedom of speech in order to abide by the rules of this forum. I'd say your actions are borderline. But in any event they are simply rude whether forbidden by the rules or not.

Now that we have that out of the way let's go ahead and talk about your "opinions" concerning the materials we use in our products.

You asked this "Question? WHY in your wave cases the quality of the vinal exteriors,is not like the better grade a porper case with much better grade vinal exteriors porper uses. Is it called cost cuts."

So I don't recall that you have ever been involved in my production? I don't remember you tagging along on my buying trips to source the materials we use in our cases. I certainly don't remember ever considering what type of vinyl Porper uses when deciding on the materials to use for our cases. The way I decide to use a material is based on whether it's durable and fit for the purpose. Given that there are about 100000322433 kinds of vinyl out there it's frankly impossible to make 100% apples to apples comparisons between them. I can tell that what we use is furniture and shoe grade which means it's used to make shoes and furniture. That works for me on the durability scale. Faux leather is generally separated into either Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) or Polyethylene Urethane (PU). PU is generally more flexible and resistant to cold weather. It's also generally much more expensive. We use mostly PU and sometimes PVC depending on the actual material and application. I would bet that the material we use costs as much or more as what Porper uses, comparatively speaking and adjusted for different cost-of-living areas. In other words if I had some of the exact same material Porper uses here in China I'd bet that ours costs more than the equivalent of Porper's. Can't say for sure but I feel confident about that.

Now, what was the second point? Oh, the fact that the grippy grips now in fashion sometimes get stuck in our cases. Well that's true. If someone wants to use a cue with rubber grips then our cases aren't the best thing for them. A simple sleeve takes care of it and they can have the protection we offer and the use of the case. It takes five seconds to put the sleeve on and insert it into the case and five seconds to remove it. I timed it.

I am however in the process of developing a removable interior where the user can switch to an interior that allows the rubber grips. That will take a while though to filter into the market and I don't know that they will ever be offered in all of our cases.

I am still dealing with the best way to balance protection against ease of use when it comes to the rubber grips. I know that they are a fad now and I hope that this fad dies out soon. If not I will have to adapt how we make cases or provide ten second solutions with every case.

So if you want to use a case that is loose enough for your rubber grip then by all means get that. It also means that you forgo a lot of other protection that we build into our cases. Life is about tradeoffs isn't it? You are certainly free to choose what to spend your money on.

Got anything else you'd like to discuss about my business? I will be happy to let you tag along next time we go to the leather market so you can make notes about the cost of materials. It helps to have facts when you spout opinions that you would like people to believe represent factual information.

Just let me know when you land in Xiamen China and I will pick you up at the airport.

Best,

John Barton, Earthling. (although now scientists speculate that MAYBE our DNA came from meteors........but I guess I am still an Earthling since I was born here, made on Earth and all that.)

I think I just fell in love with you =0. Great reply.

If I ever really need a case, I really feel JB cases are the best bang for your buck. Period
 
I curious if 'know it all' and 'DEXTER' are friends or if it is a multiple account....seeing as 'DEXTER' red repped me for my post? Seriously? Why don't you have the nutz to come online and actually post as to why I deserved that, instead of taking cheap shots from behind the keyboard...stupid keyboard commandos.

Lisa
 
[...]
Now, what was the second point? Oh, the fact that the grippy grips now in fashion sometimes get stuck in our cases. Well that's true. If someone wants to use a cue with rubber grips then our cases aren't the best thing for them. A simple sleeve takes care of it and they can have the protection we offer and the use of the case. It takes five seconds to put the sleeve on and insert it into the case and five seconds to remove it. I timed it.

I am however in the process of developing a removable interior where the user can switch to an interior that allows the rubber grips. That will take a while though to filter into the market and I don't know that they will ever be offered in all of our cases.

I am still dealing with the best way to balance protection against ease of use when it comes to the rubber grips. I know that they are a fad now and I hope that this fad dies out soon. If not I will have to adapt how we make cases or provide ten second solutions with every case.

So if you want to use a case that is loose enough for your rubber grip then by all means get that. It also means that you forgo a lot of other protection that we build into our cases. Life is about tradeoffs isn't it? You are certainly free to choose what to spend your money on.
[...]
Best,

John Barton, Earthling. (although now scientists speculate that MAYBE our DNA came from meteors........but I guess I am still an Earthling since I was born here, made on Earth and all that.)

If it means anything to anyone, I'm a proud owner of a Sterling Wave case, and have been so since the prototype era of said cases (i.e. the cases weren't formally out on the market yet). Yes, being a prototype, my Wave case has the old-style zippers that've since been replaced in newer revisions of the same model by a zipper design where the zipper tabs don't pull-off the main body of the zipper's "car." Yes, my Wave case's stitching is not as durable as the newer models (there are areas on the back of the base where the faux Nubuc leather is starting to separate at the stitches).

But the following items have proven to be true:

1. My case has been dropped, tipped over, stumbled over (by a drunk trying to catch his balance), and even drop-kicked by someone who, in a fight, tried to do a leaping side-kick at his opponent, the opponent stepped out of the way, and this person ended up drop-kicking -- with his full weight -- my Wave case propped up against the wall just behind that opponent. No harm *ever* came to my cues that were inside. Severe scuff marks? Yes. Damage to the case's structure or the cues inside? No.

2. John is someone who's constantly experimenting and improving his designs. The above-mentioned improvements in the newer revisions of the same models alone speak to this.

3. Forget the "built-in" rubber grips found on some of the newer production cues like the Lucasi Hybrid, et al. I use real carom rubber grips on some of my cues -- "Cyclone" brand, in fact. These are exponentially more grippy (have more "tack") than any built-in rubber grip found on those Lucasi Hyrbrid, et al. cues. These carom rubber grips have been around a long, l-o-n-g time -- certainly longer than the "fad" that John is referring to with these production cues having a rubber grip built-in. Having personally encountered the "oh sh*t, I can't get my carom-rubber-gripped cue out of the Wave case!!" long ago, I use a fabric sleeve I had specifically made for the purpose, useful in any case design -- not just John's -- to put my cue in prior to dropping it down into the case's slots. It's the same material that pool gloves are made of, and because of that slick material, it takes two seconds to drop the cue's butt into this sleeve (even with the carom rubber grip installed), and then the whole shebang itself drops neatly down into the case. I fold-over about two inches of the very end of the sleeve (the closed-off part, that inserts first into the case) prior to dropping it into the case. Then, when I remove the cue's butt, that folded-over part at the closed end serves as a nice "handle" to pull the sleeve off the cue butt in one quick motion. It is very easy and quick -- 5 seconds from start to finish. No pains about it at all. (Sure as hell beats having to roll and unroll the carom rubber grip itself onto the cue every time I want to use it! I don't look gift horses in the mouth.)

While I am a personal advocate of being a patriot (I'm a military veteran), at the end of the day, it all comes down to who makes the best product, and most importantly, who listens to their customers. John is certainly one of those people. While some people believe that a case is for aesthetics (e.g. "Ooooo! Look at him[her] that just entered the room with so-and-so's case on his[her]shouder! Must be a really good player!"), at the end of the day, a cue case is all about protection of its contents, when you boil it down to barebones. These cases have proven to me to do just that, and then some.

-Sean
 
Johnny Boy

In your pm's to me.You said I speak of hate. Wrong ,I said I don't care for you, not hate you.And in your pm's to me you said murnaks cases can't hold a candle to yours. Wow,whats wrong with you ,for your information Mr Murnak makes one hell of a case sir. My opinion only.And hate ,I think you are the one that hates when someone tells how it is about cases. People can say whatever they want about anyones product. Jack Justis and Jim Murnak are the nicest people in the business,and probaly so are you. Both are people with class, honesty,integerity,and go out of the way to make your case a work of art,in their eyes as well as your own. I said a few things about how I felt .I like justis and murnak. As well as joe porper. Which I know jack and joe for many years. So remember johnny,this is america. People
can speak and chose from thier hearts and minds.No matter what you or me like.It's called what you like ,what floats your boat,and the buyers choice.What you say or try to do ,or what my opinion is won't change it. So John go to sleep and relax. My good friend Gus Szamboti once said let evey man stand on his own merit..Justis ,Murnak, and you, stand on your own merit. Relax and quit worring about everyone else. Your smart ,good and talented. Keep it going and worry about what you done and can do.And better your product,no matter what anyone thinks or says .The proof is in the pudding. Good night. Rich aka the skunk.
 
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In your pm's to me.You said I speak of hate. Wrong ,I said I don't care for you, not hate you.And in your pm's to me you said murnaks cases can't hold a candle to yours. Wow,whats wrong with you ,for your information Mr Murnak makes one hell of a case sir. My opinion only.And hate ,I think you are the one that hates when someone tells how it is about cases. People can say whatever they want about anyones product. Jack Justis and Jim Murnak are the nicest people in the business,and probaly so are you. Both are people with class, honesty,integerity,and go out of the way to make your case a work of art,in their eyes as well as your own. I said a few things about how I felt .I like justis and murnak. As well as joe porper. Which I know jack and joe for many years. So remember johnny,this is america. People
can speak and chose from thier hearts and minds.No matter what you or me like.It's called what you like ,what floats your boat,and the buyers choice.What you say or try to do ,or what my opinion is won't change it. So John go to sleep and relax. My good friend Gus Szamboti once said let evey man stand on his own merit..Justis ,Murnak, and you, stand on your own merit. Relax and quit worring about everyone else. Your smart ,good and talented. Keep it going and worry about what you done and can do.And better your product,no matter what anyone thinks or says .The proof is in the pudding. Good night. Rich aka the skunk.

Let me break it down for you slowly.

This thread is one in which JMW specifically asked about purchasing a Barton case or a Murnak case. He did not ask for you to volunteer your opinions on Justis or any other brand.

It's simply rude for you to do so. Would you like it if you made a thread looking for a Justis and someone else came in and told you to buy a Barton case because "it's the best"?

Your position is hateful. Your PM content was hateful. Like I told you in the PM exchange people like you will never win over people like me because you act from a position of hate and I speak from a position of knowledge. It's that simple.

You have to make up things to attempt to put me down. I counter with facts. You make racist and ignorant comments about where something is made, you make accusations about my business and character that are nothing but wild fantasy conjecture and you expect what?

And what's up with your constant "this is America" nonsense? Ok it's America Mr. Skunk and your tripe stinks just like a real skunk's does. So next time you put up a thread selling anything I will be sure to exercise my rights as an American to shit all over your thread with my opinions. Is that cool with you?

Oh and in case you haven't noticed THIS is not America. This is an internet forum hosted on a computer. People from all over the world post here on this forum and agree to abide by the rules which include not going into sale threads and trashing them with negativity. I know that this is over your comprehension level which is ironic seeing as how you chose "know it all" as your handle. I can only assume that you chose this moniker as an act of self-deprecation.

Certainly by the posts here and the content of your PMs you don't actually know very much at all. But like I said in the PMs I know where I stand with you now and that's fine with me.

Also, thanks for your advice but you're late to the party and I prefer to listen to people whom I respect. Also try practicing your own advice. If you did then you would let Jim and Jack stand on their own merit without the need for you invade this thread with your "best" and "made in America" commentary. Surely, since you know it all, you have to have figured that the original poster has done his homework and decided for himself which brands he is interested in.

Looking at some of your past threads I do understand where you are coming from though. If I were as invested as you then I would certainly be protecting my investments.
 
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Johnny Boy

As for your comment to sh-t on any of my treads. When you open you mouth or it is moving,why gollie by gee,sh_t does come out. And john in the tread if you read it ,it said open to all. You been skunkatized. John its stripe not tripe. HA HA HA.
 
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As for your comment to sh-t on any of my treads. When you open you mouth or it is moving,why gollie by gee,sh_t does come out. And john in the tread if you read it ,it said open to all. You been skunkatized. John its stripe not tripe. HA HA HA.

Gotcha. Well, the guy was asking for specific offers. As in people who HAVE a case for sale. Did you offer him a case that you have for sale?

Jack stated just a day or so ago that he isn't taking orders. So in case I missed it where was your offer. You must have PM'ed it to him.

And no, it's tripe. And if someday you would like to repeat all of your insults to me in person feel free to come by. Bring any case you would like to publicly compare and we can dissect it alongside mine for the audience to judge. We will then see which of us is full of shit and which isn't.

I will put up the $75 case I listed above.
 
Johnny Boy

Well I can see the hate ,and now profanity coming from your mouth to the key board. John what you should do at the hopkins show,is the samething they do with cues.Let the people vote on quality,looks,workmanship,durability,design. Let the people vote and do the talking. One other thing you have over looked all you life .Is your mouth and a_ _hole are both interchangeable. I rest my case. skunkatized again.
 
Well I can see the hate ,and now profanity coming from your mouth to the key board. John what you should do at the hopkins show,is the samething they do with cues.Let the people vote on quality,looks,workmanship,durability,design. Let the people vote and do the talking. One other thing you have over looked all you life .Is your mouth and a_ _hole are both interchangeable. I rest my case. skunkatized again.

Profanity and hate? Let's see you called me classless, played the nationality card, have called me an asshole (it's ok to say it you're an adult now).

As far as having a judged competition I am ALL FOR IT. Have been for 15 years. If one ever materializes then I will be THE FIRST to sign up in every category. I have no fear about where my products sits in every measure.

What the hell is "skunkatized"? You can't type the word asshole but you use some made up nonsensical word played off your nickname? Sounds like some stupid WWE wrestler lingo. When I think of skunks I think of nocturnal mammals who spray foul smelling odor from their anus when they are afraid. Seems like that is pretty much what you are doing.

I don't know what sort of circumstance led to you getting the nickname "the Skunk" but it works for me as a pretty damn accurate description of your character.

Well, like the odor of a skunk when you get sprayed, this too shall pass. Actions speak louder than words as they say and I have posted actual cases for sale and sold nine of them as of ten minutes ago. Looks like I will get my Murnak 2x4 as well and quite possibly have sold a few 4x8 Interior upgrades. So thank you for continuing the conversation and helping me to get some business out it.

Best to you Mr. Skunk, you do your namesake proud.
 
My Vote goes to John Barton cases.

I've got 2 of the rugged cases...from JB...

They are excellent cases...Very Inexpensive, good workmanship, and really nice to boot.

For the money, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find a better case.


Good Luck with your search!
 
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