Xbreaker Being Sold On Ebay

Shawn Armstrong said:
These guys on eBay were selling these cues long before Richard announced his illness. They're not being opportunistic. I've seen these cues on the Asian eBay for at least 4-6 months now. Actually around the same time that Richard changed manufacturers.
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OF COURSE THEY ARE BEING OPPORTUNISTIC!!!!!!! They re taking a cue that they did NOT design, did NOT promote, did NOT develop, and TRADING on the NAME.

Do I have to spell it out ANY MORE clearly?

Shawn, please, please, please, develop something, anything you want and invest heavily in it. When you have gotten yourself fully invested, I know you won't mind a bit if I take the thing you developed and copy it verbatim and use your brand name? Right? It's just business and copies happen? Right?
 
Realizm said:
Just to add to the fire .
here a link and you make the call....
http://cgi.ebay.com.hk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250081785727&ih=015&category=44077

Have fun boy ..
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They've been selling them for months. It's how I knew about them. I found this stuff just after I was notified that Predator had offshored to TaiCan or Ham Sung with the new C4 line of cues. Ended up stumbling across these cues on the HK eBay site. Look at all the stuff they sell - tooled leather cases, J&J brands, Instroke, sealed Moori tips, etc.. These guys are "legit" (just for you, John). I remember when Falcon used to make the Predator butts (I used to get to go to the plant sometimes). The ones that were rejected went into a box, and got sent back to Taiwan. A few of these cues have resurfaced here and there with Falcon logos.

While we're talking about intellectual property, what isn't intellectual property on a cue? Would a four point spliced forearm be intellectual property? How about a stainless steel joint? Perhaps the taper on the shaft? Richard had a cue made, and put a threaded stem-style tip made from G-10 on the cue. The stemmed tip concept belongs to Jericho cues with the Stinger. Is there something about his cue that makes it "patentable" or intellectual property? If there is, there are ways to get around it. Me, being without ethics (your opinion, John), could find ways around any patent he has in order to make a cue play the same or better. It's called innovation. People take other people's designs and improve upon them. Richard did it. It wasn't much of a stretch. He took 3 other people's ideas and put them together. Does he deserve to profit from it? Yes. I guess Levis should have patented jeans. Still, I would end up wearing "knock offs" called denim slacks.

Everyone's house is filled with knock-offs and copies of original products. So is everyone's driveway. It's called capitalism. Don't embrace it one time, then spit on it in your next breath. No halfway allowed, John. Same thing you said about cases holds true for cues. If you can find someone to build the exact same product for less money, that's your right as a consumer. What sucks about this is that someone stretched to put Richard's illness and these cues being sold on eBay to somehow be correlated.
 
From Shawn:
"Their company had one year contracts with the "parent" companies to make their machines for them. At the end of the year, the actual manufacturer was able to "clone" the models they made for the big names, except with their own badging on it. That's capitalism for you. Who knows, maybe this company had the same sort of contract with him."

No Shawn, that is called a CONTRACT. The OEM's were not allowed to BRAND their clones as DELL, TOSHIBA, or whatever. Nor were they allowed to advertise that the computers were the "same as" "came from the same factory" or anything similar to that. In other words they were NOT allowed to steal Dell's GOODWILL by using Dell's brand to promote their products.

Nor were they allowed to sell into Dell's markets. Which is why you see plenty of knockoffs here but not too many in the USA. Or do you want to PROVE me wrong and run down to the computer store and snap some pictures of all the off-brand copies of name brand laptops you find. You won't many or ANY because, unlike Richard Chan, the big boys can AFFORD to protect their intellectual property. And that's the way business really works.
 
John Barton said:
OF COURSE THEY ARE BEING OPPORTUNISTIC!!!!!!! They re taking a cue that they did NOT design, did NOT promote, did NOT develop, and TRADING on the NAME.

Do I have to spell it out ANY MORE clearly?

Shawn, please, please, please, develop something, anything you want and invest heavily in it. When you have gotten yourself fully invested, I know you won't mind a bit if I take the thing you developed and copy it verbatim and use your brand name? Right? It's just business and copies happen? Right?
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PATENT IT. That stops things. Did Richard get a patent? I didn't on the dimpled tip, and I see it everywhere.

Maybe I should go off on this board about Richard stealing my design. Except I won't. Because I really don't care.

Let me know when you're back in the US. The defamation charges will be waiting for you when you land.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
PATENT IT. That stops things. Did Richard get a patent? I didn't on the dimpled tip, and I see it everywhere.

Maybe I should go off on this board about Richard stealing my design. Except I won't. Because I really don't care.

Let me know when you're back in the US. The defamation charges will be waiting for you when you land.
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You know so little and are such a little person. Defamation? For what? Calling you a vile person? Suck it up Shawn it's called Freedom of Speech. And after all it's only my "opinion".

You're funny, like you would ever the balls to actually sue anyone. I welcome it - bring it on. You want my address? You file suit and have the papers delivered to my address,

John Barton
598 Indian Trail Road, #200
Indian Trail, NC, 28104
USA

I will represent myself and answer every one of your claims. I am sure that your lawyer will love taking your money.

Patenting stops nothing - A patent is only a CLAIM to a design. The person holding that patent must defend their claim. People with patents are infringed (stolen from) all the time and do not have the means to stop it. You must have slept that day in business kindergarten.

Dimpled tip? What the hell are you talking about? It's not everywhere. And it's also not revolutionary - ever hear of a device called a Tip Pik? It makes -gasp- dimples in tips. Wow, so your big thing is you pre-dimpled a tip? I take it all back - you ARE a GENIUS!

The Armstrong Dimple Tip - made by a simpleton and given freely to the world because he couldn't protect it anyway.

And what was this tip you dimpled supposed to be for? Not break jump cues I hope. You wouldn't do such a dastardly thing as to "invent" (stretching here) something to help those evil purveyors of such nefarious devices as break cues with jump sections would you? I couldn't possibly bear to to think of you as a hypocrite so please tell me that it's a mistake and you didn't ever make or sell any jump cue or part of a cue to enhance jump shots. Please tell me you didn't release into the world something that could be used to encourage more "Monkeys" to damage cueballs.
 
Remember Where You Heard It

I've read this thread with interest, but like most AZBers, I'm not buying anything from China.
Doug
( it will give you Food Poisoning )
 
Irish634 said:
Just curious John... who owns the Instroke case design now?
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No one. The design was never patented is not copyright protected. Which is why I could never stop anyone from making it.

I could only ever stop people from trading on the name which I diligently did when I owned Instoke. It ate up a lot of time to stop people from advertising using my brand and from using plagiarized versions of my descriptions.

The Instroke Brand for the USA is owned by Ching Emblem Woodcase Corporation in Taiwan. For Europe it is owned by Instroke Sports GmbH in Ilshofen Germany.

The scallop pattern is about as much public domain as a pattern can be at this point. Anyone is free to do it. Only the exact dimensions of all the parts are not available anywhere. They reside on my computer and with the people making that pattern.
 
John Barton said:
You know so little and are such a little person. Defamation? For what? Calling you a vile person? Suck it up Shawn it's called Freedom of Speech. And after all it's only my "opinion".

You're funny, like you would ever the balls to actually sue anyone. I welcome it - bring it on. You want my address? You file suit and have the papers delivered to my address,

John Barton
598 Indian Trail Road, #200
Indian Trail, NC, 28104
USA

I will represent myself and answer every one of your claims. I am sure that your lawyer will love taking your money.

Patenting stops nothing - A patent is only a CLAIM to a design. The person holding that patent must defend their claim. People with patents are infringed (stolen from) all the time and do not have the means to stop it. You must have slept that day in business kindergarten.

Dimpled tip? What the hell are you talking about? It's not everywhere. And it's also not revolutionary - ever hear of a device called a Tip Pik? It makes -gasp- dimples in tips. Wow, so your big thing is you pre-dimpled a tip? I take it all back - you ARE a GENIUS!

The Armstrong Dimple Tip - made by a simpleton and given freely to the world because he couldn't protect it anyway.

And what was this tip you dimpled supposed to be for? Not break jump cues I hope. You wouldn't do such a dastardly thing as to "invent" (stretching here) something to help those evil purveyors of such nefarious devices as break cues with jump sections would you? I couldn't possibly bear to to think of you as a hypocrite so please tell me that it's a mistake and you didn't ever make or sell any jump cue or part of a cue to enhance jump shots. Please tell me you didn't release into the world something that could be used to encourage more "Monkeys" to damage cueballs.
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Dimpled tip - it's concave at the top. Look at a picture of the x-breaker tip, as well as the TNT break cue from Falcon.

Jim Wych and Jeff White came to me a few years ago, and had seen Ronnie Wiseman using a break cue with a flanged ferrule, somewhere around the 15mm size. They liked the look and hit of it. When they came back, they called me and asked me to make a similar shaft for one of their break cues for them. I make the shaft, and decided to put a small dimple in the top at the time, just to try it out. This was around the same time Taylor Made had come out with the inverted cone technology on the R series drivers. I tried to emulate that technology by making a sweet spot on the one piece tip/ferrule combo. It worked OK, but was more of a gimmick than anything else. And, it was made specifically for a break cue.

Keep coming with the zingers, John. And, BTW, calling me unethical is actually defamation. It does damage to my character. Same with calling me a racist, and other things that you've said. And, defamation is Small Claims Court, so I don't need a lawyer. You're the one resorting to name calling, John. This post was about Richard. Somehow you've managed to make it about you.
 
No Shawn, it's not about me - it's about an asshole who is infringing on a helpless person's property and stealing from him. And it's about assholes like you who condone it. You are the one who decided to attack me in this thread.

The way to stop it on Ebay is to send a message through this link

http://cgi1.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...id=250150883580&seller=matt9ball2007&active=1

As for defaming you, well my friend, if you had any character to defame then you might be right. However you yourself have destroyed whatever character you have publicly by condoning theft, which is a vile thing and unethical. So, feel free to sue me in whatever way you prefer to, you will lose there as surely as you continue to lose here.
 
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Nat Green from Southeast Cues did a concave tip many years ago as well. Perhaps he "stole" the idea from you who "borrowed" it according to you from golf. IN FACT - now that I am reminded of it Franz Hauber in Germany dinked around with this in 1997 as I tried it out in Ilshofen and told him it wasn't worth much. I don't think Franz was a Golf Channel fan.

That's not what we are talking about but I can't expect you to understand that.
 
John Barton said:
No Shawn, it's not about me - it's about an asshole who is infringing on a helpless person's property and stealing from him. And it's about assholes like you who condone it. You are the one who decided to attack me in this thread.

The way to stop it on Ebay is to send a message through this link

http://cgi1.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...id=250150883580&seller=matt9ball2007&active=1

As for defaming you, well my friend, if you had any character to defame then you might be right. However you yourself have destroyed whatever character you have publicly by condoning theft, which is a vile thing and unethical. So, feel free to sue me in whatever way you prefer to, you will lose there as surely as you continue to lose here.
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LMAO. Welcome to the industry, John. Instroke 2x4 case = ripoff of It's George 2x4 hard case. Bunjee Blaster = ripoff of The Mace J/B. Bunjee Jumper = ripoff of Pat Fleming's original jump cue. If the cue is 58" long, that's not new. If it has a wood shaft, totally unoriginal. If it has joint rings, not new either. If it's about the G10 tip, Richard lists on his site that the tip isn't G10, it's harder. Therefore, there is a difference, and they are not EXACT copies of the X-breaker. Look it up yourself, John. It's on Richard's site.
 
John Barton said:
Nat Green from Southeast Cues did a concave tip many years ago as well. Perhaps he "stole" the idea from you who "borrowed" it according to you from golf. IN FACT - now that I am reminded of it Franz Hauber in Germany dinked around with this in 1997 as I tried it out in Ilshofen and told him it wasn't worth much. I don't think Franz was a Golf Channel fan.

That's not what we are talking about but I can't expect you to understand that.
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http://www.xtremebilliard.com/page7.html

So, if the tip isn't the same, I'm guessing it's still theft of intellectual property?
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
LMAO. Welcome to the industry, John. Instroke 2x4 case = ripoff of It's George 2x4 hard case. Bunjee Blaster = ripoff of The Mace J/B. Bunjee Jumper = ripoff of Pat Fleming's original jump cue. If the cue is 58" long, that's not new. If it has a wood shaft, totally unoriginal. If it has joint rings, not new either. If it's about the G10 tip, Richard lists on his site that the tip isn't G10, it's harder. Therefore, there is a difference, and they are not EXACT copies of the X-breaker. Look it up yourself, John. It's on Richard's site.
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You get more delusional by the post.
 
Let's get one thing straight.

As always, I expect civility. Period.

Shawn, I have read the posts you've reported and find that it looks like you are the antagonist.

John, You need to tone back the statements.

The rest is he said, she said.

I am deeply disappointed that anyone would take a shot at Richard.


Dave
 
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