Yet another "What is the right thing to do" thread.;-)

arsenius

arsenius

Nothing ever registers...
Silver Member
Inspired by this thread.

You are watching your friend play 9 ball. What do you do when you see your friend about to shoot the wrong ball? What about if his opponent is shooting the wrong ball?

Is it cheating? Can you cheat when you aren't playing? Do the rules say anything about this? How can the rules apply to a non-contestant?

I remember watching the ICOC with Efren and (I think) Busta. Efren almost forgot to call the 9 ball. Someone in the audience yelled to him call it "Not in English though..." Was that wrong? If not, what is the difference between a large audience and a small audience?

Full disclosure: I have told a friend he was shooting the wrong ball. But I did it without thinking and felt bad about it afterwards.
 
I stick the rule of life for me.If its not your business stay out of it.If your playing someone and you want to tell them go ahead.But I know if I was gambling and someone on the side told the person I was playing that they were shooting the wrong ball I would get mad as hell.But again if it was a friendly game and you were the one playing by all means say something.
 
arsenius said:
Inspired by this thread.

You are watching your friend play 9 ball. What do you do when you see your friend about to shoot the wrong ball? What about if his opponent is shooting the wrong ball?

Is it cheating? Can you cheat when you aren't playing? Do the rules say anything about this? How can the rules apply to a non-contestant?

I remember watching the ICOC with Efren and (I think) Busta. Efren almost forgot to call the 9 ball. Someone in the audience yelled to him call it "Not in English though..." Was that wrong? If not, what is the difference between a large audience and a small audience?

Full disclosure: I have told a friend he was shooting the wrong ball. But I did it without thinking and felt bad about it afterwards.
Click to expand...


I wonder if that could be considered coaching? The rule is pasted below, but as you asked, the spectator can be removed but it doesn't say anything about what happens to the contestant if this should happen.

1.9 ASSISTANCE NOT ALLOWED
While a match is in progress, players are not allowed to ask spectators for assistance in planning or executing shots. If a player asks for and receives such assistance, he loses the game. Any person, except the opponent, who offers any significant assistance to a player, verbal or non-verbal, will be removed from the area. (Refer to Rule 2.28)
 
Irish634 said:
I wonder if that could be considered coaching? The rule is pasted below, but as you asked, the spectator can be removed but it doesn't say anything about what happens to the contestant if this should happen.

1.9 ASSISTANCE NOT ALLOWED
While a match is in progress, players are not allowed to ask spectators for assistance in planning or executing shots. If a player asks for and receives such assistance, he loses the game. Any person, except the opponent, who offers any significant assistance to a player, verbal or non-verbal, will be removed from the area. (Refer to Rule 2.28)
Click to expand...

What rule book does this come from?
 
I don't know about the rules or laws, but it's my belief that you should not butt into other people's games. It is none of your business. Resist temptation and keep your freakin' mouth shut.:)
 
ironman said:
What rule book does this come from?
Click to expand...

The pasted text is from the WPA website under the "world rules" tab and "tournament play" section.

I couldn't find the "tournament" section on the BCA website.

I used this because I left my copy of the BCA rule book at home. I believe the BCA rule book and the WPA rules are pretty much one in the same word for word, but I could be wrong.

Craig
 
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Rules

Other than 2 friends playing just for the fun of it, you keep your mouth shut.

Especially if there is anything of value on the game or match, whether a tournament or money game.
 
In my 8-ball league, it's not considered coaching or cheating if a player on your team is solids and is about to shoot a stripe (because he forgot, or didn't notice the other player sink a stripe before, or whatever), and you call out "you're solids!" Of course, if your player is solids and is about to shoot the 2, but he'd be much better off shooting the 3 first, you have to call a coaching time-out, or keep your mouth shut.

I don't think it should be considered cheating to say something like "you're on the two" if a player is lining up on the three ball mistakenly.

However, to remove all doubt as to the ethics, THE OPPONENT SHOULD WARN HIM. If I'm ever in a match and my opponent is shooting the wrong ball due to an oversight, I'm going to tell him myself, before he shoots. I consider that to be a matter of honor. I don't want to win because someone didn't know which ball he's legally required to hit, I want to win because I play a better match than him. I don't believe "knowing which is the low ball" should be one of the skills that is tested in a pool match.

-Andrew

EDIT: If I witnessed this in a money match, there's no way I'd say anything. What's allowable within the scope of a money match is between the people wagering the money, and nobody else. I would, however, think less of the opponent who allows the wrong ball to be shot, and then takes ball in hand. I think that's dishonorable.
 
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In some halls where money is on the line and a spectator coaches that could be a good way to get your chops busted by the player or by other spectators. There are different ways to remove a spectator from the arena especially if it is thought that there is some colusion or benefit to the spectator. :cool:
 
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Funny story. I was watching a local player and a kid from up state play a 10 ahead for 1 or 2 thousand I believe. The local was somewhere around the hill, and the kid is shooting... He gets down on a 4 ball (3 is still on the table) and he's getting ready to shoot. Out of nowhere one of the local rail-birds screams out "Hey man, you're shooting the wrong ball, you're on the three!".
This guy doesn't bet a dollar, so he didn't have a piece, he just felt like letting everyone in the room know that he knew something that the player didn't....


Needles to say, no, I don't think that it's right for anyone, even a friend, on the sidelines to say anything. I've seen guys backing their players for 4 figures PLUS and not say a word after the other player commited a foul that thier horse didn't notice.
 
If the rules allow outside input (like in some leagues), by all means. Otherwise, I agree with pretty much everyone else here - keep yer trap shut. :D
 
In the early 90s i was watching a 5 ahead match for 1k between a mexican champion and another player out of the Buffalo area. The buffalo player is on the hill. The mexican player gets hooked and decides to jump over the blocking ball. As he executes the shot, the cueball just barely nicks the blocking ball and it wiggles a hair. He also makes the object ball in the corner. The buffalo player calls foul and then a big argument ensues. The buffalo player turns around to the rail and asks who saw the foul. Pretty much silence except for one young kid who starts to say something and his older friend(father maybe?) elbows the kid and says to him be quiet and watch.

After alot of arguing, no foul is called and the mexican player shoots. He runs out, breaks and runs three more racks, plays a lockup safety, gets BIH and runs out again, makes the 9, and then breaks and runs two more racks. The next time the buffalo player shoots he is losing with the mexican on the hill. He loses the next game and the ahead session is over.

The older gent turns to the younger player and tells him. "see how important that one shot was? You almost got involved in this, and look at how you could have impacted this money match." Two or three more railbirds chimed in at that point and told the kid that when it comes to being a spectator of a money match, whenever you get asked to give an opinion on a possible foul, THE ONLY ANSWER to reply is "sorry I didnt see it" Nothing good will come out of you giving an opinion when two players play at that level. You will just make enemies.
 
Enough already.

the right thing to do is to let the contestants "Play by the rules". Unless the rules state that you must point out obvious fouls and such, prior to the contestant shooting then you do not.
This is such a slippery slope...where do you draw the line with this type of thing?
"Excuse me sir but I believe that you will scratch if you attempt the shot that I believe that you are going to try"
I believe that Natural Consequences is one of the best instructors known to man. I would not,do not interfere unless I feel it would result in physical harm,
"I would advise against sticking your tongue in that electric socket if I were you, sir"​
to the individual involved.
Everybody gets to step up, pay as much attention as they want, live with the results and most importantly...learn from consequences of their OWN actions.
You can tell them or they can learn for themselves...which lesson do you think will last longer? This is not a weighty moral issue. One does not become a bad person for someone else's failure to be present in the here and now.
Can we spell "adult"
Can we spell "big boy"

I thought so.
I
 
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