you can't smoke in a poolroom???

[ScottW]

Entitlement?.

What entitles a smoker the right to pollute the air in a poolhall?.

What entitles you to play in a smoke-free pool hall?

We could go back and forth on this for days. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[DoomCue]

Smokers chose to smoke cigarettes, so smokers should be prepared to deal with the consequences of their choices.

Never said they shouldn't - but in the case of places where there are noise ordinances (per your previous post), there are defined consequences. In the case of smoking in places where smoking is currently allowed, non-smokers want to change the current state of things. Big difference. If there's a law currently in place, then smokers/non-smokers should abide by them. If a group wants a law changed or a new law put into place, then valid reasons based on fact, not myth, should be presented.

The fundamental issue is that smoking causes suffering one way or another for non-smokers. Okay, let's say there was a theory that bottled formula might cause your new born baby to develop cancer. Would you continue to feed it to your child, even if there was only a 1% chance it was true?. Myth or no myth, the general public, non-smokers fear for their health. Fear is a strong motivational force, whether founded in reality or not.

This is known as fear-mongering, and it is obviously alive and well. (see McCarthyism, Salem Witch Hunts, and Hitler, Adolf)

And who is really behind these studies that claim second hand smoke has no health repercussions?. Maybe non-smoking lobbyists are skewing results in their favor, but you can bet your little red wagon that the cigarette corporations are doing plenty of their own skewing.

I've read studies from our very own EPA, the New England Journal of Medicine, and WHO (World Health Organization) reinforcing the fact that there is no proven link between second-hand smoke and various lung diseases. I'm guessing they're not a part of the cigarette companies' lobbying group.

My point is, yes second hand smoke may not be proven to cause diseases like lung cancer and Emphysema, but it can cause serious health problems for people who already suffer from such ailments. Such people have just as much right to go anywhere that smokers wish to go and live in peace. My Grandfather had Emphysema and people smoking around him was like murder on him.

Sounds like for you, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. Somehow, I'm not too sure that's what democracy means.

Someone with no arms and legs should probably stay out of the swimming pool, not ask that all the water be taken out of the pool so he won't drown.

At the end of the day, most smokers wil even agree that public places are more enjoyable when they're smoke free. Whether or not second hand smoke has health implications is not the most important fact. Quality of life goes way up when smoke exposure goes way down.

This should be the crux of the non-smoker's argument when he promotes a smoking ban. Unfortunately, that isn't going to fly, so most non-smokers spout non-facts based on misinformation in order to back up their position. Non-smokers have made health implications the most important factor in smoking bans, in order to force the argument to become one of emotion, when law should be based on logic and rationality. It's far easier to appeal to emotion than to intelligence.

-djb

 

[GTeye]

This made me chuckle:

What entitles you to play in a smoke-free pool hall?

Cancer.

Maybe mixing bleach and ammonia in restaurants should be legal. I mean some people might like to do that. Who are we to say they can't. What entitles us to eat and play pool in a bleach/ammonia free environment?

No dogs at denny's? WHY? What gives them the right to say that!

HAVE TO HAVE SNEEZE GUARDS? WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT!

Have to clean the tables? Have to wash your hands? WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT!

Why are we entitled to these things when we go places?

Fire exits? Why are we entitled to them?

Ban asbestos? THEY HAVE NO RIGHT!

The question should be what entitles you to the right to impact other peoples health?

-----------------------------

There is no "big" picture when it comes to this.

You cannot throw around "government conspiracy" and "big brother" when it comes to smoking simply because smoke doesn't just effect you.

And before we bring up, WELL WHAT ABOUT DRINKING??? DRUNK DRIVERS KILL PEOPLE!

Yup, your right but while your drinking, you aren't effecting anyone but yourself and the real knife in the back for this type of "justification" is the simple fact that if you do drive drunk YOU GET ARRESTED AND YOUR CAR IMPOUNDED AND CAN GO TO JAIL! If you kill or injure someone you can face CRIMINAL CHARGES.

As for "public place", it's not, it's a business, it's not a public place, it's a business that is required to follow the codes and laws of the area it's run. You can't bring your pets to the local denny's and restaurants need to put in sneeze guards on buffets, it's all in the same arena.

This discussion was beat to death in another thread from a different angle but the same basic facts still stand, people shouldn't be forced to endanger their lives to go out and enjoy themselves and as long as the law doesn't say you aren't allowed to smoke outside the place then no freedoms are being taken away, your just being inconveniences so others have less of a cancer risk, espescially the employees.

I agree quality of life is also a big issue but it's not the only one and it's important to also argue the health risks of it as well. Anyone who honestly believes second hand smoke poses no danger to others is simply put, a moron.

 

[cubswin]

I think the ban on smoking is great Cant wait until it gets to NC.

I can't wait until it hits indiana. I've noticed recently that less people are smoking in the pool hall, but currently get catered to more than the non smokers in pool halls and in card rooms.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

MMMM loooooksss yummmyyy. Why didn't I ever start?

I'll give a gold star to whoever can figure out how many packs of cigarettes are shown in this picture and multiply it by the average cost of a pack of smokes. I have no idea how many cigs in a pack or the cost. Was just curious. *I know there are 0 packs but individual cigarrettes shown*

 

[Jimmy M.]

I was talking about this specific case where it was a proposition on a ballot in Ohio.

Well, kinda sorta.

State legislatures put forth bills, vote them into law, all the time on their own. Not EVERY law is voted on via a ballot by the Great Unwashed (i.e. you and me).

In fact, in Colorado, I think this was the case - I don't think the statewide smoking ban was ever put up as a referendum. I could be wrong. I know there was a movement to get the law tossed out, or at least its enforcement delayed, but I don't recall hearing anything before that on trying to get Joe Sixpack to vote against the measure in the first place.

But in the end - even in those cases - it's still The People doing this, as The People are the people (har) who are electing the legislators who are proposing bills, voting them into law, etc. Sure, it's a step removed, but in the end, its still The People having a choice. If they don't like the choices that their elected officials make, they can choose to send'em packing - either voting them out at the next election, or banding together and calling for a recall.

And as far as having "no choice" but to play in a smoky pool room as that's all that there are - that's not exactly true. You DO have a choice. You can choose to go play in the smoky room, or to NOT go play in a smoky room. The second choice may well entail not playing AT ALL as there's nowhere BUT smoky rooms to play. Yes, a crappy choice - but it's still a choice.

 

[ilovepool]

Granted it was 52% to 48% but that was like 2.5 million for, and 1 million against. Those numbers don't lie, and it shows that most people prefer to be smoke free......2.5 to 1 that is

 

[Jimmy M.]

Granted it was 52% to 48% but that was like 2.5 million for, and 1 million against. Those numbers don't lie, and it shows that most people prefer to be smoke free......2.5 to 1 that is

It was actually 54.2% to 45.8 here in AZ. I'm not sure if that is what I said in my initial post, but that's what the numbers were.

 

[MrLucky]

Well actually...

So issue 5 got passed today in OH, this says theres no smoking in public. my question is this what if any impact do you think this will have on pool in OH. I went back to NY where a similar law was passed and I was god awful, having to go outside in the middle of a set to smoke, just ridiculous. This can’t be a good thing

that’s what I think, what do you think???

it's a great thing unless you think dying of lung cancer is a fun thing! and if that doesn't faze you how about not giving it to others around you that try to be healthy and think about seeing their children grow up?

 

[BigDaddyInc.]

Of course you wouldn't see any reason to change it, you smoke and you're a slave to the addiction. The majority of people in this world don't smoke, should their health suffer on account of your bad decision?.

I don't mean to be harsh, but you're coming off as very selfish here. Why not take the smoking ban as a cue that you should stop smoking for the sake of your health and the health of all those people around you. The state of Ohio is looking out for your health because you don't know how.

There's an old plaque that reads:

Thank you for Not Smoking. Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure. It contaminates the air, pollutes my hair and clothes, not to mention my lungs. This takes place without my consent. I have a pleasure, also. I like a beer now and then. The residue of my pleasure is urine. Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and pi$$ed on your head and your clothes without your consent?.

The state of ohio is looking out for your health! HA! hahahaha! Do you honestly believe that any of the higher up's give a crap about people's health. I can't even believe it was on the ballot i mean look at all the taxes the state will lose if people really did quit smoking. But then again that won't happen but the state will reap the rewards of being able to fine people for lighting up in public that will bring in some extra cash for the state and i can assure you that's why it was on the ballot it was'nt because they were concerned about anyone's health.

 

[nyjoe14.1]

it's a great thing unless you think dying of lung cancer is a fun thing! and if that doesn't faze you how about not giving it to others around you that try to be healthy and think about seeing their children grow up?

That’s a little dramatic don’t ya think?

 

[Hierovision]

No. What's dramatic is smokers complaining about having to go outside to light up and arguing about how it's not that bad. IT IS that bad, you're polluting ME when it comes down to it. Your smoke gets in my hair, skin, eyes, mouth, clothes, lungs, and most importantly ALL OVER MY ****ING CUE. Cues are sacred... tainting them with tar is sacreligious (however you spell it). Why the hell would I want any part of your horrible decision? Smokers should be restricted to a single room with an airlock and proxy room that sprays them down with febreeze as they come out

 

[pdcue]

So issue 5 got passed today in OH, this says theres no smoking in public. my question is this what if any impact do you think this will have on pool in OH. I went back to NY where a similar law was passed and I was god awful, having to go outside in the middle of a set to smoke, just ridiculous. This can’t be a good thing

that’s what I think, what do you think???

FWIW it was 4 that passed. 5 was the much less restrictive
constitutional amendment sponsored by the tobacco industry

Now that we have the pedantic/anal issues done with,
I am gravely concerned. Esp for BK, where Steve just invested
in all those new Diamonds.

smoking bans have pretty much been disasterous for poolrooms
Many a thriving room with decades of sucess, have crashed and burned when smoking was outlawed, some in only a few months

As I see it, the only hope is, the ban is state wide. Perhaps that
will soften the blow somewhat, but I am not optimistic

Dale Pierce(who is sleepless in Cincinnati)

 

[tk_it_ez]

Does anyone know about cigar bars? Is there an exception for them? It would pretty much shut down any establishment if you couldn't do the one thing that the place was meant for.

 

[smittie1984]

Of course you can't smoke. But don't worry. Big Brother is only doing this to protect you.

 

[MrLucky]

Smoking!

That’s a little dramatic don’t ya think?

Not as dramatic as watching my aunt dwindle away and pass from lung cancer!

 

[Cornerman]

I didn't know there are other states besides Nevada who still allow public indoor smoking.

A few still do. North Carolina might never change their laws considering their strength in the tobacco industry. The Charlotte airport is the smokiest smelling airport in the country, in my opinion.

Fred

 

[Hierovision]

And Virginia.

 

[Cornerman]

Does anyone know about cigar bars? Is there an exception for them? It would pretty much shut down any establishment if you couldn't do the one thing that the place was meant for.

I know of one cigar bar in Massachusetts that didn't seem to have any reduction in clientele. If anything, more people are going there.

Fred

 

[Pinocchio]

Dcc!

DCC will be smoke free.