You know I'm amazed I can make a ball.

[PlynSets]

I started teaching my g/f how to play about a month or two ago (taking a little ciesta on that right now.. She's going in for Boobs on thursday, which is another thread altogether). After kind of showing her what I know I figured I'd get some books, tapes, professional instruction etc..

They got this stuff down to a science now. Right foot here, left eye there, dominant this, ghost ball that, backhand what?

Not to sound cocky, but I'm one of the best players in my limited little social circle of friends.. Back in the day when I was younger and had no life I was a low A player, nowdays I'm an inconsistent B.. (Bouncing back and forth from A to D.. )

In all seriousness though, does everybody use this stuff? I learned how to cut balls, by sitting there and cutting them.. Never even heard of a system for it? I put right and left on the ball by "feel" and I adjust my aim by feel as well.

I kick balls by drawing lines in my head on the table (Although I will say I tried somebodies system on here the other day "3 Rail system" and was blown away by how well it works), and am not half bad at kicking to start.. Not exactly kicking em in everytime, but enough to usually return a safe or **** it in somewhere.

You guys figure it's worth going back and trying to learn all these systems and do it more systematically? Or just keep playing on feel?

DJ

 

[Cardinal2B]

Well, I am not in your league probably, but I am a good natural athlete, and I learned a lot of things on sort of a monkey see monkey do basis, you know tried it, did it, and remembered how later when I wanted to do it again...
But, yeah all these breakdowns are good, up to a point. I mean top pro athletes in every sport I can think of break down video all the time.

Who wouldn't want Allison's mechanics?

The point where I think you gotta get off that bus is when you are so caught up in thinking about how to do it that you can't do it anymore. Like Yogi said :

"You can't think and hit at the same time"

 

[Andrew Manning]

Well, I am not in your league probably, but I am a good natural athlete, and I learned a lot of things on sort of a monkey see monkey do basis, you know tried it, did it, and remembered how later when I wanted to do it again...
But, yeah all these breakdowns are good, up to a point. I mean top pro athletes in every sport I can think of break down video all the time.

Who wouldn't want Allison's mechanics?

The point where I think you gotta get off that bus is when you are so caught up in thinking about how to do it that you can't do it anymore. Like Yogi said :

"You can't think and hit at the same time"

There's a big difference between good mechanics and systems. I continually strive for perfect mechanics, whereas I don't use anything I would describe as a system.

For instance, my aiming. I've experimented with eye alignment, and found that I can cue the ball along a line of aim much more precisely with my head centered over the cue, and my chin about 1 inch above the cue. I can cue much straighter and more confidently if I hold my hips well away from the shot like Mike Sigel, and hold my elbow in such a position that my upper arm is in line with the shot, and my lower arm is perpendicular to the floor at contact. The only part that has to move is my lower arm, which swings from my elbow in a simple hinging motion. I've thought and read extensively about these fundamentals, experimented to make sure I know exactly what works for me, and used mirrors to teach myself exactly how to position my body for optimal mechanics. I've practiced for hours to understand every detail of what makes me hit the ball where I'm aiming and what makes me hit the ball erratically.

So that covers how I make the cue ball actually go to my point of aim. But how to I choose my point of aim? I stare at different points on the object ball until it looks like I've found one which will make the ball go in the hole. As simple as that. I aim at the spot that looks right. If I'm using side spin, I aim at a different spot that looks right with my sidespin in mind. If I'm kicking, I look at the shot from above until I've found a spot on the rail that looks right.

For me, mechanics are very important, and the more I understand about them, the better. But I don't believe in "systems". I actually believe that deep down, everyone does what I do, even though some believe they are using a system. They may have learned a system to do something, but by the time they've perfected using the system to achieve their desired results, what they've really done is taught their subconscious how to pick the right spot. In my opinion, they think about the system, and then they shoot at the spot that looks right.

-Andrew

 

[Harvywallbanger]

This has been a big problem for me my whole life. It seems if I don't play for a while I get up there and shoot like a champ. Then I start practicing, reading books, studying tapes, analyzing my shots, and the next thing I know I am making the shots harder than what they are.

For instance on a long shot that requires little cut I normally just aim straight on and my brain makes the adjustment when I shoot to make the ball center pocket. I start analyzing, picking a spot on the object ball, using the ghost ball or whatever and now all of a sudden it feels like I am aiming a 16 foot shot.

I say if you are still getting better the way you play stick to it. Once your game hits a wall then I would try new things.

 

[supergreenman]

You guys figure it's worth going back and trying to learn all these systems and do it more systematically? Or just keep playing on feel?

DJ

I guess you have to decide what your goals are, where you want your game to be compared to where it is now.

There are enough systems out there that you can pick and choose the ones you like or are suited to your game and style.

Personally, when it comes to aiming I'm satisfied with the way I do it now, but I keep an open mind and enjoy learning different systems and ways of doing things.

 

[PlynSets]

Andrew, good read. I have terrible mechanics.. LOL

Back when I used to play all the time the owner of a pool hall I used to hang out in told me I have a "Pump handle" stroke. I was never able to see myself shoot so I just tried to work on moving my elbow only.. I quit playing for a few years (as read back in some earlier posts that I posted) Now that I've resumed my stroke is all over the place. LOL I still pocket balls and get to where I need to go, but man I video'd myself for the 1st time just a few weeks ago and there's all kinds of stuff going on back there.

My roomate calls it "The Train" becuase it's all over the place I think.

I dunno, I'm going to post up some vids later this week (going to try and do collins 24 shots video etc..) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

DJ

 

[time_is_now]

I started teaching my g/f how to play about a month or two ago (taking a little ciesta on that right now.. She's going in for Boobs on thursday, which is another thread altogether). After kind of showing her what I know I figured I'd get some books, tapes, professional instruction etc..

They got this stuff down to a science now. Right foot here, left eye there, dominant this, ghost ball that, backhand what?

Not to sound cocky, but I'm one of the best players in my limited little social circle of friends.. Back in the day when I was younger and had no life I was a low A player, nowdays I'm an inconsistent B.. (Bouncing back and forth from A to D.. )

In all seriousness though, does everybody use this stuff? I learned how to cut balls, by sitting there and cutting them.. Never even heard of a system for it? I put right and left on the ball by "feel" and I adjust my aim by feel as well.

I kick balls by drawing lines in my head on the table (Although I will say I tried somebodies system on here the other day "3 Rail system" and was blown away by how well it works), and am not half bad at kicking to start.. Not exactly kicking em in everytime, but enough to usually return a safe or **** it in somewhere.

You guys figure it's worth going back and trying to learn all these systems and do it more systematically? Or just keep playing on feel?

DJ

you need to do a combo....learn them all....but use both them and feel....knowledge is power they say.....when it is there one uses feel...when it isn't you need to have something to go back to

 

[a_challenged]

Andrew, good read. I have terrible mechanics.. LOL

Back when I used to play all the time the owner of a pool hall I used to hang out in told me I have a "Pump handle" stroke. I was never able to see myself shoot so I just tried to work on moving my elbow only.. I quit playing for a few years (as read back in some earlier posts that I posted) Now that I've resumed my stroke is all over the place. LOL I still pocket balls and get to where I need to go, but man I video'd myself for the 1st time just a few weeks ago and there's all kinds of stuff going on back there.

My roomate calls it "The Train" becuase it's all over the place I think.

I dunno, I'm going to post up some vids later this week (going to try and do collins 24 shots video etc..) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

DJ

"The train" refers to the arm on the wheels of a locomotive. Your shoulder moves up and down and your forearm moves from to back to make a "circle". The stick is all over the place (not too much from side to side) and it's quite amazine how you can make anything. Well, that is, when you do make something...

- the roommate

 

[renard]

I started teaching my g/f how to play about a month or two ago (taking a little ciesta on that right now.. She's going in for Boobs on thursday, which is another thread altogether). Blah, blah, blah ,blah Or just keep playing on feel?

DJ

I'm sorry couldnt understand most of your post. Tell us about the boobs now and all the particulars!

Somebody had to do it!

 

[rackmsuckr]

If you don't know how you got there yourself, how will you be able to teach her? And will her stance be right, after she gets the boobs? They might get in the way, lol.

 

[tedkaufman]

Funny thing I've noticed about big breasted pool players: If the woman sets the cue just along the outside of her breast, not between them, her breast will guide her to excellent plane alignment. That, and her built-in distraction, can make her a formidable opponent.

 

[PlynSets]

I'm sorry couldnt understand most of your post. Tell us about the boobs now and all the particulars!

Somebody had to do it!

Heading in tomorrow morning for the job.. Pretty excited about it actually. I never knew there was so much research to be done on something like this. I feel like we just went car shopping. Did you guys know you can even purchase a warranty on the implants themselves! LOL.. All kinds of crazy stuff. Each Dr. has a different way of doing it, but the guy were using has #'s 1 - 5 to determine how much "bubble" you want on the top of the cleavage. 1 Being most Natural and 5 Being porn star. They say Silicone isn't back on the market yet, but pretty much anyone can get them if they want (about to be released by the FDA again) they just make up some stupid claim about whatever and you fill out a bunch of paperwork. I won't get into the details, but I'll say she went with the silicone (and after doing months of research if your sending your better half in believe me it's the only way to go) and she'll definately be in the mid "D" size when it's all over. On a sidenote the subject of how this is going to affect her game/learning has come up on a couple of occasions.. LOL She's pretty serious about advancing, although I will say she's been slacking lately. I don't blame her though if I was just starting to learn something only to realize that I would have to take 2 - 4 weeks off of it, I think I'd just wait till after the 4 weeks as well. We played for a few hours last night, both of us played pretty bad.. LOL I think we both have alot on our minds right now with the surgery and other things..


DJ

 

[PlynSets]

If you don't know how you got there yourself, how will you be able to teach her? And will her stance be right, after she gets the boobs? They might get in the way, lol.

You know that's a great question! When I'm playing I always thought I was standing right, and to be quite honest I always thought I was only moving my elbow.. LOL I just started video taping myself practicing and came to the conclusion there's some funky stuff going on. It looks like I'm kinda standing off to the side, and the stroke.. Jumpin Jesus!!

In any event, I know the way it's suppose to be so in teaching her, my f'd up mechanics don't seem to be much of a factor. My old roomate mike learned how to bowl from a guy that he took lessons from in a bowling alley. I asked him how good he was, and he said "I dunno I never saw him pick up a ball."

Mike is a wicked bowler (sp?).. Point in fact when we lived in Santa Barbara he'd go down to the bowling alley and when his 50 bucks a week in some sorta league match? and then clean the joint out on a regular basis in... I think they were called pot games?

DJ

 

[Cardinal2B]

mechanics & systems

There's a big difference between good mechanics and systems. I continually strive for perfect mechanics, whereas I don't use anything I would describe as a system.
-Andrew

Yep, good point. I was referring to mechanics in my earlier post - that it is worthwhile breaking them down , especially if they aren't correct (i.e. the "train" effect PlaynSets & roomate refer to), in practice sessions I mean. When playing, well, you have to play, its not the time to be thinking about stroke mechanics ("can't think and hit at the same time")...

For aiming systems, I originally learned "contact point on the object ball" but in lessons later I was convinced of the merits of "imaginary cue ball." Now I use both. I first walk to the point directly behind the object ball and find the contact point on the OB. Then, I stand behind the cue ball, and see the imaginary ball resting nicely against the OB so that it would be touching the OB at the contact point, use the cue resting behind the CB to draw the line from the CB position to the imaginary CB position I want. Then, just leave the cue where it is, and conform my body to the stroking position around it, open bridge. 3-4 practice strokes, and shoot.

This takes actually very little time to do, it takes much longer to write it down here (or read it). What I find good about it is that all this systemic plotting takes place standing up, with a more vertical view of the angles, etc. Once I am down, with a horizontal behind-the-cueball view, I can get that confusion about the aim, and the temptation to change it. However, having sold myself on the aim line (twice!) before I do bend down, I know I don't need to.

Where my instructor says I'm now not "according to Hoyle" on mechanics is that I don't pause on the final backstroke. I say this is IMPOSSIBLE, as just like a pendulum in physics, you cannot change from going east-west to going west-east without stopping, however briefly. My pause is just, well, extremely brief. I find that a long pause here just disturbs my groove entirely, its a rhythm screwer-upper.

I do use an aiming system for basic banks & kicks, which I learned from Jimmy Reid, basically it is a pretty simple "doubling" system, using the diamonds. You can find this on his website if you want - http://www.freepoollessons.com


Adjusting for swerve & squirt, etc. when using english - to me - is a feel thing, I don't see how that could be broken down to systemic pieces without some serious calculations of speed, parabolic curve formulae, etc. (I'll bet Colin has these calculations someplace though...). To me its more like throwing a curve ball for a strike, you gotta throw lots of them to know where the location will be...

 

[Cardinal2B]

the boobs

Oh yeah, on on the boob issue.
If your mechanics are right, and you don't move the back elbow, and you swing your arm like a pendulum from the elbow, and have good follow through while staying down, you finish by hitting yourself in the chest, a bit to the outside of, well, your boob - however decorative or functional it might / might not be. (Mine for example are really neither).
That could be a bit painful immediately post surgical enhancement I would guess.

 

[pooltchr]

Funny thing I've noticed about big breasted pool players: If the woman sets the cue just along the outside of her breast, not between them, her breast will guide her to excellent plane alignment. That, and her built-in distraction, can make her a formidable opponent.

Now that might just be even better than the stroke trainer! And would make practicing a lot more fun too!!!!
Steve

 

[PlynSets]

Now that might just be even better than the stroke trainer! And would make practicing a lot more fun too!!!!
Steve

You know I tried the stroke trainer and it certainly taught me alot about my stroke! I can't get by this "rolling" motion though. When I stroke the cue seems to be rolling away from my body.. I never knew this until I put the trainer on, and now I literally have to start at a 30 degree angle in the back position to end up with the forks flat with the table in the forward position.

I tried to just watch it and make it go away, but again there's some funky stuff going on back there, and approximately I dunno.. 14 years of reinforcement I'd guess you'd say..

DJ