You play pool, but do you smoke?

[Cameron Smith]

Yes, extremely smokey environments can cause clothes to smell, but those same non-smokers that eat large amounts of greasy food growing morbidly obese decreasing their health and raising the insurance costs for others also affects others.

True, but a person who eats a triple cheese burger isn't going to kill me by doing so. Nor will it directly affect my hygiene.

Smokers are a minority in north america, so why should they be able to dictate the way of things?

Before the smoking ban in Ontario, I had to limit the amount of time I spent in the pool hall because it was unhealthy for me to be there for long periods of time. How is that fair?

 

[rookie6018]

No, having a single triple cheesburger will not kill you, but neither will spending a limited amount of time in a smokey environment. I know I brought it up in a previous post, but everyone needs to get away from the argument of health because there has been no discernable evidence that second hand smoke causes any form of cancer or other health problems. Not to mention the carbon monoxide we put into the atmosphere from our SUV's, diesel trucks, etc. could be just as harmful. Who's to know?

The main argument is the smelly clothes. Wow! Have we become so involved with ourselves that these are the central issues of our society. It appears as though the smokers in the world are the most resilient of creatures because no matter how many places you kick us out of and how high you raise the prices, we will still find a way and place to smoke. As smokers, we've come to understand we can't always have it our way. As smokers we are typically more patient and understanding. We can understand your side of the argument, but the only thing many of the non-smokers of this thread seem to care about is "smelly clothes".

Once all smoking has been officially banned from all public facilities, what will be next? What societal concern will the non-smokers champion next?

I feel as the people of a supposed democratic society, we should always fight for a cause, but is this the one upon which we want to invest our energy? I'm sure we can come to an agreement that there are more imortant things we can disagree upon.

 

[Jimmy M.]

I know I brought it up in a previous post, but everyone needs to get away from the argument of health because there has been no discernable evidence that second hand smoke causes any form of cancer or other health problems.

C'mon, man. I know that the topic of this thread was just asking how many pool players smoke (which, if the numbers are any indication, it shows what I've said I-don't-know-how-many-times; smokers are the minority, even in the pool room) but I'm compelled to respond to this because it just isn't true. It might be true if you get your news from those whacked out "conspiracy theory" type news sources but, in the real world, this just isn't true.

Here's what the American Cancer Society has to say about second-hand smoke. Their sources, such as the U.S. Surgeon General and the like, are far more credible than those "it's all a conspiracy, man" websites so I hope that no one responds to this with links to any of those sites.

 

[cueandcushion]

Very UN-scientific poll

Tonight I tallied how many smokers and non-smokers played pool.

Was not a busy night because of Superbowl. We don't serve alcohol.

34 non-smokers (not counting children)
12 smokers (10 cigarrettes, 2 cigars)
2 persons left because of smoke, specifically mentioned it.
Note...we have smoke eaters and the smoke level was barely noticeable to me.

 

[BraveNerd]

Yeah, I smoke, unfortunately.

 

[MrLucky]

I guess there is a reason you have only 3 post ........

No, having a single triple cheesburger will not kill you, but neither will spending a limited amount of time in a smokey environment. I know I brought it up in a previous post, but everyone needs to get away from the argument of health because there has been no discernable evidence that second hand smoke causes any form of cancer or other health problems. Not to mention the carbon monoxide we put into the atmosphere from our SUV's, diesel trucks, etc. could be just as harmful. Who's to know?

The main argument is the smelly clothes. Wow! Have we become so involved with ourselves that these are the central issues of our society. It appears as though the smokers in the world are the most resilient of creatures because no matter how many places you kick us out of and how high you raise the prices, we will still find a way and place to smoke. As smokers, we've come to understand we can't always have it our way. As smokers we are typically more patient and understanding. We can understand your side of the argument, but the only thing many of the non-smokers of this thread seem to care about is "smelly clothes".

Once all smoking has been officially banned from all public facilities, what will be next? What societal concern will the non-smokers champion next?

I feel as the people of a supposed democratic society, we should always fight for a cause, but is this the one upon which we want to invest our energy? I'm sure we can come to an agreement that there are more imortant things we can disagree upon.

People that disseminate lies and their self made "facts" in a manner that others should take as the truth are seriously dangerous in a forum like this ! The truth is that second hand smoke has been found to be as dangerous to the recipient if not more dangerous to the person inhaling it! here are the real facts ! ...
Evidence abounds on the dangers of secondhand smoke. The American Lung Association defines “secondhand smoke” as a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, cigar, or pipe and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. Nonsmokers involuntarily inhale this smoke, which lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or aggravate adverse health effects, including respiratory infections, asthma, and cancer.

Young children are especially at risk: secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in children under 18 months old, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year. It also causes between 1,900 and 2,700 Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States each year.

There is no risk-free level of exposure: Recent findings led the U.S. Surgeon General to issue a health warning in late June 2006 emphasizing that secondhand smoke is both “toxic and poisonous.” Secondhand smoke contains poisonous gases and chemicals, including carbon monoxide (commonly found in car exhaust), ammonia (used in household cleaners), toluene (found in paint thinners), and hydrogen cyanide (used in chemical weapons). Toxic metals in secondhand smoke include arsenic (used in pesticides), lead (formerly found in paint), chromium (used to make steel), and cadmium (used to make batteries). The Surgeon General’s warning concluded that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke; even short exposure can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, and reduce heart rate variability, which may increase the risk of heart attack.

Cancer is not the only concern: According to the National Cancer Institute, more than 4,000 chemicals have been identified in tobacco smoke – and more than 50 are carcinogens (cancer-causing substances) and six others interfere with normal cell development. Research shows a connection between secondhand smoke and nasal sinus cancer, and possible a connection between secondhand smoke and cancers of the cervix, breast, and bladder. Non-cancerous health conditions caused by secondhand smoke include chronic coughing and wheezing, chest discomfort, decreased lung function, and severe lower respiratory tract infections such as bronchitis or pneumonia. Women who inhale secondhand smoke may be at risk of preterm labor and delivering a low-birthweight baby.

Folks like you that present crap to further their argument are dangerous and should not be allowed to post ! IMO!

 

[seymore15074]

Tonight I tallied how many smokers and non-smokers played pool.

Was not a busy night because of Superbowl. We don't serve alcohol.

34 non-smokers (not counting children)
12 smokers (10 cigarrettes, 2 cigars)
2 persons left because of smoke, specifically mentioned it.
Note...we have smoke eaters and the smoke level was barely noticeable to me.

Interesting!

 

[SixSence]

I have been playing pool for several years and yes I am a smoker. I feel a sense of annoyance with all the laws being imposed across the country to push smokers further and further away.
Yes, I understand smoking is unhealthy, but so are several other things we put into our body on a daily basis.
Yes, extremely smokey environments can cause clothes to smell, but those same non-smokers that eat large amounts of greasy food growing morbidly obese decreasing their health and raising the insurance costs for others also affects others.
So, I think I will perfectly accept a completely non-smoking environment when a law is passed requiring indiviudals to stay within a certain level of body fat.
It sounds ludicrous, but if we say it's ok for government to limit our activities in one area, we may as well say..."thank you sir, may I have another."
Besides, when I'm on the road, if I walk into a pool hall and there isn't a hint of smoke in the air, I go on to the next pool hall. No worthwhile action would reside in such an establishment. Real pool players don't care about the smoke when they're the ones running out. It's the ones sitting the rail losing or not gambling that notice the level of smoke in the air.

Ok, that desperate attempt for an argument by trying to compare the effect of obesity on insurance rates to how smokers affect other people is ridiculous for several reasons. Of course there's the obvious reason that you're trying to compare costing people a little money in an indirect fashion to directly poisoning people. Furthermore, we are talking about banning smoking in pool halls and maybe other public places, not ban it all together. So, it's an unfair comparison given you'd have to ban eating fatty foods completely even in private areas to get rid of that minuscule effect. Finally, most people are unaware they are causing anybody but themselves harm by eating fatty foods, given your abstract and barely visible farfetched example. Smokers are well aware how they are affecting everyone else, and still choose to do it simply because of the addiction.

No, having a single triple cheesburger will not kill you, but neither will spending a limited amount of time in a smokey environment. I know I brought it up in a previous post, but everyone needs to get away from the argument of health because there has been no discernable evidence that second hand smoke causes any form of cancer or other health problems. Not to mention the carbon monoxide we put into the atmosphere from our SUV's, diesel trucks, etc. could be just as harmful. Who's to know?

The main argument is the smelly clothes. Wow! Have we become so involved with ourselves that these are the central issues of our society. It appears as though the smokers in the world are the most resilient of creatures because no matter how many places you kick us out of and how high you raise the prices, we will still find a way and place to smoke. As smokers, we've come to understand we can't always have it our way. As smokers we are typically more patient and understanding. We can understand your side of the argument, but the only thing many of the non-smokers of this thread seem to care about is "smelly clothes".

Once all smoking has been officially banned from all public facilities, what will be next? What societal concern will the non-smokers champion next?

I feel as the people of a supposed democratic society, we should always fight for a cause, but is this the one upon which we want to invest our energy? I'm sure we can come to an agreement that there are more important things we can disagree upon.

Wow... Just wow. If that isn't a post by a completely biased smoker with a severe addiction, I don't know what is. Let's set aside your obviously false facts about the evidence of second hand smoke that has already been addressed above. The carbon dioxide and other pollutants that are put in the air at least serve a purpose. Automobiles provide transportation and are extremely important to our daily life. What does smoking do for you that makes it so utterly important that polluting the air and possibly poisoning people become a reasonable trade-off? You smoke mainly because you're addicted. Yes, you also smoke to calm your nerves and relieve stress, and because of the need to have something in your hand. But let's be real, there are many other constructive, less obtrusive, and less harmful ways to deal with nerves and stress. I don't know anyone who started smoking just because they needed to calm their nerves. And let's be honest, how many of you would quit if you could? The main reason people continue smoking is because of an addiction, so don't try to facilitate your need to fill an addiction, that you wouldn't even have if you hadn't made the choice to start smoking, by using the "freedom" excuse to cover all your bases for the reasoning to impose it on everyone else.

Personally, I've always been a non-smoker and never once saw any appeal or had desire in smoking. But, given I'm in a pool hall every day, I'm around it all the time and never complain about it, and it doesn't bother me. I accepted the fact a long time ago that there's nothing I can do about it. It is just bewildering and sickening when people try so hard to defend smoking in public, when you wouldn't even want to do it if it weren't for the addiction. There's no basis. Even if second hand smoke was harmless, even the fact that you’re staining other people’s clothes and irritating them with smoke is more of a basis for banning smoking then you’re need to smoke is for allowing it. Let's keep letting people cook up meth in their basement because hey, we can't let the government regulate our lives right, and there's no evidence that the pollution from it affects anyone. Very sad.

 

[rookie6018]

Well, I have to honestly admit that I was unaware of the information you gave. Upon reading your post, I did some research and found that I was completely in error regarding second-hand smoke. I, like many others, knew that second-hand smoke couldn't be good, but I had no idea they had clinical evidence of its harm. I apologize for false statements I made in the previous post. I am usually very careful about presenting information or opinions based upon incorrect information.

I appreciate the correction, but the "idiot" identification was probably a little inappropriate.

Based upon the information I found after reading your post...I feel that banning smoking in all public places is probably the just action - despite the fact I am a smoker. Non-smokers should not be required to risk their own health just to keep the smokers indoors.

I agree.

 

[MrLucky]

Sorry I got a little rattled by your post and the remark was over the top

Well, I have to honestly admit that I was unaware of the information you gave. Upon reading your post, I did some research and found that I was completely in error regarding second-hand smoke. I, like many others, knew that second-hand smoke couldn't be good, but I had no idea they had clinical evidence of its harm. I apologize for false statements I made in the previous post. I am usually very careful about presenting information or opinions based upon incorrect information.

I appreciate the correction, but the "idiot" identification was probably a little inappropriate.

Based upon the information I found after reading your post...I feel that banning smoking in all public places is probably the just action - despite the fact I am a smoker. Non-smokers should not be required to risk their own health just to keep the smokers indoors.


I agree.

I read so many post here especially on this subject that it really bothers me when misinformation is given as supposed fact ! Please accept my apology !

 

[SixSence]

Well, I have to honestly admit that I was unaware of the information you gave. Upon reading your post, I did some research and found that I was completely in error regarding second-hand smoke. I, like many others, knew that second-hand smoke couldn't be good, but I had no idea they had clinical evidence of its harm. I apologize for false statements I made in the previous post. I am usually very careful about presenting information or opinions based upon incorrect information.

I appreciate the correction, but the "idiot" identification was probably a little inappropriate.

Based upon the information I found after reading your post...I feel that banning smoking in all public places is probably the just action - despite the fact I am a smoker. Non-smokers should not be required to risk their own health just to keep the smokers indoors.


I agree.

@rookie6018

I'm very surprised you are that open minded to be able to completely change your mind on such an opinionated topic. I have a lot of respect for people who don't let their bias and ego get in the way of admitting when they are wrong. The world needs more people like you.

Oh, and sorry for the extensive use of "rediculous" in my post as to sound somewhat defensive. I'm just very opinionated on certain things. :O

 

[Big Perm]

Somebody mentioned a count earlier, I did the same :

18 out of 30, right at 60% were smokers, which was actually fewer that I thought it would be.....thought it would be higher, and I even waited around for those that might not have lit up or had one out while I was counting....

Sincerely, I don't like the direction of this thread, which seems to be reading: "I don't like it, it's unhealthy, and there is a chance it can effect me, so let's ban it".....Should we ban everything that can hurt us???

Speed kills - highest speed limit is 75, so should every car have a gov at 75
Alcohol kills - drunk drivers kill people and hurts liver, ban alcohol
Unhealthy foods kill - ban all foods that don't have significant health value
Video games kill - only learning games approved, nothing that hurts anything
Football causes permanent injury - no more football
Ultimate fighting - yep, causes damage, that should go to
Golf - it hurts your back, don't do it
Coca cola - too many and it will eat thru your stomach, ban it...
Movies - the scrary movie kept me from sleeping, ban it....
Poverty is bad on health....hey, let's be socialists and share our money with everyone...

We can ban all these things, or we could just say that if you don't like something, you avoid areas where it can happen....if you want some more examples, check out the movie, "Equilibrium", with Christian Bale.....it has some incredible fighting moves, and it's all about control of the unhealthy....

Understand, I respect those and understand that smoking is bad....clearly.....but I just don't support banning everything we don't like or agree with......

 

[seymore15074]

Smoke can't be avoided, that's the difference. There is no smokeless pool hall around here...it is not a choice, the smoke is forced upon the non-smokers. I deal with it everyday and I will continue to in order to play the game that I love. Ban it or not, I'll be down the hall.

 

[MrLucky]

I'm so tired of these inane analogies !

Somebody mentioned a count earlier, I did the same :

18 out of 30, right at 60% were smokers, which was actually fewer that I thought it would be.....thought it would be higher, and I even waited around for those that might not have lit up or had one out while I was counting....

Sincerely, I don't like the direction of this thread, which seems to be reading: "I don't like it, it's unhealthy, and there is a chance it can effect me, so let's ban it".....Should we ban everything that can hurt us???

Speed kills - highest speed limit is 75, so should every car have a gov at 75
Alcohol kills - drunk drivers kill people and hurts liver, ban alcohol
Unhealthy foods kill - ban all foods that don't have significant health value
Video games kill - only learning games approved, nothing that hurts anything
Football causes permanent injury - no more football
Ultimate fighting - yep, causes damage, that should go to
Golf - it hurts your back, don't do it
Coca cola - too many and it will eat thru your stomach, ban it...
Movies - the scrary movie kept me from sleeping, ban it....
Poverty is bad on health....hey, let's be socialists and share our money with everyone...

We can ban all these things, or we could just say that if you don't like something, you avoid areas where it can happen....if you want some more examples, check out the movie, "Equilibrium", with Christian Bale.....it has some incredible fighting moves, and it's all about control of the unhealthy....

Understand, I respect those and understand that smoking is bad....clearly.....but I just don't support banning everything we don't like or agree with......

not one of your examples are related to being forced to share someones bad habit and potential for a horrible illness just because in order to partake of ones hobby / recreation you must endure second hand cigarette smoke ! Please try to be more imaginative or at least present a serious idea to perpetuate your non existent case!

 

[cdavis9771]

I love to play pool and compete in tourneys. It doesn't bother me too much until someone comes up to you smoking one and for some reason the smoke follows me no matter what seat i sit in >=( I have been to a pool room that has a non-smoking section. Which was nice but the tourney was held in the smokin section. >=( Oh well u can't win em' all lol!!

 

[MrLucky]

The real problem is...

I love to play pool and compete in tourneys. It doesn't bother me too much until someone comes up to you smoking one and for some reason the smoke follows me no matter what seat i sit in >=( I have been to a pool room that has a non-smoking section. Which was nice but the tourney was held in the smokin section. >=( Oh well u can't win em' all lol!!

that even when the smell is not that obvious and we think we are OK the danger is still there in fact may be more dangerous because for instance I play out of a place called Mr Cues here in Atlanta when its really crowded the smoke is intolerable and I try and leave there as soon as possible on league night ! The days when its not as crowded you are lulled into a false sense of security because the smoke is not as obvious but the reality is it is still there and it is still a hazard!

 

[Big Perm]

not one of your examples are related to being forced to share someones bad habit and potential for a horrible illness just because in order to partake of ones hobby / recreation you must endure second hand cigarette smoke ! Please try to be more imaginative or at least present a serious idea to perpetuate your non existent case!

With all due respect, every example most of those have and do effect all of us at some level....ie, family and friends bad eating habits when you take them to DRs visits, peoples bad driving/speeding when they run into you, and so on.....although, the golf and ultimate fighting are reaching a little

But that's no reason for you to insult me personally because I don't share your position.

 

[MrLucky]

I don't think you are getting it!

With all due respect, every example most of those have and do effect all of us at some level....ie, family and friends bad eating habits when you take them to DRs visits, peoples bad driving/speeding when they run into you, and so on.....although, the golf and ultimate fighting are reaching a little

But that's no reason for you to insult me personally because I don't share your position.

when a football player plays football he is payed a huge salary because his career for the most part is short and it is dangerous! When some one eats a hamburger or some other food it isn't because someone at an adjacent table is eating one and expelling its contents into your mouth!!!!
When I go into a poolhall or for that matter any place where smokers congregate I do not have a choice in whether or not I breath their toxic by products !!! there just isn't any valid comparison in your attempt to justify this situation!

 

[RobertR]

My wife is a vegetarian. I'm not, but I eat far less meat than the average American.

You must have gotten a kick out of the line in Pulp Fiction where Jules tells the guy "My girlfriend is a vegetarian, which pretty much makes me a vegetarian".

My fiance is a recovering alcoholic (3 years now), which pretty much makes me a non-drinker. I just wish she'd quit smoking.

 

[Big Perm]

when a football player plays football he is payed a huge salary because his career for the most part is short and it is dangerous! When some one eats a hamburger or some other food it isn't because someone at an adjacent table is eating one and expelling its contents into your mouth!!!!
When I go into a poolhall or for that matter any place where smokers congregate I do not have a choice in whether or not I breath their toxic by products !!! there just isn't any valid comparison in your attempt to justify this situation!

If that football player is your brother, or your father, or best friend and he has injuries from high school or college (which is pretty common), later in life it can deeply effect his quality of life and those that have to cater to him.....you have to take him to mulitple appointments, cook, and clean because of his own choice to play...

400LB guy eating 1/4 of the left side of the menu, wearing 1/2 of it on his shirt....you happen to be seated at a nearby table and you literally can't enjoy your food....or that guy happens to be family, and you have to help with his special needs......

Bad driver in front of you....or speeder hit you from behind...either these two, or the two examples above, cost you time, money, and influence your health and quality of life....which smoking does as well....those that look to ban smoking may later look to ban unhealthy foods and so on.....that might not be your agenda, but I dont' think it's that far away...

Regardless, I appreciate where your coming from, but I don't like the condescending approach like I'm a little kid that just doesn't understand....