Your thoughts on outrageous cue prices
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I think you shouldn’t pay more for a cue than it has personal value for you. If the market changes and you’re still happy with your cue(s), then you did well. I’ve never purchased a cue as an investment.
Bingo
Case study: Carmeli cues have basically doubled in price since 2017 / 2018 and they are rarely "in stock", especially the traditional merry windows and SW 6 point styled cues. The more expensive and elaborate ones still sell out also rather quickly. I got a Carmeli 6 point cocobolo and burl SW style with leather wrap and 2 shafts in early 2018 for $1750. The same cue or similar ones sell for $3350 - $3500 today. You can see this price trend and the sold out inventory here as Seyberts keeps around listings that can be years old:
seyberts.com
Ariel Carmeli Cues
A true artisan in the world of cue making, Ariel Carmeli is a master cue builder based in Southern California, with a rich legacy of handcrafting custom pool cues in his Eastvale workshop since 1994. His dedication to the craft has earned him a reputation for unparalleled meticulousness and...
How many trillion dollars did *.gov dump into the system in 2008 to keep the banking system afloat ??
How many trillion dollars did *.gov dump into the system in 2020 to keep the health care system afloat ??
What do you think happens when that much money gets dumped into the system ??
I am not afraid to spent real money. Tim Scruggs made fine pool cues. If that is what you want and you find one for a price that is attractive to you, have at it and have fun.
The most I ever paid for a cue is my Ed Prewitt cue. Is it the best playing cue in my small collection, or should it since it cost twice the amount I paid for my Scruggs cue? Because something is expensive doesn’t mean it is better than anything similarly equivalent. Cue buyers have lots of reasons for buying this cue versus that cue. Sometimes it is a question of appearance. It could be certain features. It might be the cue maker’s reputation for making exquisite cues Yes, cue snobbery can also be a factor. Perhaps it is something the person always wished they could have, like me.
My admiration for Joel Hercek is way beyond what most forum readers might also have. I never told this story before but years ago, Joel contacted me out of the blue. He does occasionally visit this Forum. Needless to say, I was a lot more than startled by his phone call. He was aware of how much praise and profound admiration I posted on Az about his cue making over many years of participation on Az, he wanted to meet me. And despite being old enough to be his dad, at that moment I felt like a little kid talking with Mickey Mantle. And I was born and raised in NYC and watched him play. So my analogy of how excited I was to speak with whom I consider the best living cue maker, or at the very least a heralded name in cue making, is spot on. It was a thrill and we spoke about a variety of topics involving cue making including my beliefs about cue anatomy.
Much to my delight, he told me that I was right to think that way because I was not incorrect. He took time to explain some things to me about how he approaches cue making and how much time Burton Spain spent teaching him about building cues. He was open, friendly and communicative with his time that I was completely floored. He told me I could contact him any time and he even offered to build me a cue. The only limitation was California’s ivory ban prevented him from accepting my cue order while I was in California and shipping it to me was impossible. But if I ever was in his neighborhood, placed an order and actually picked it up from him or shipped to a different state than CA, everything was kosher. As you can see, it turned into a complicated and more expensive cue order since i lived thousands of miles away. Of course, he has a long wait list and only produces less than 2 dozen cues annually so that was a factor as well.
At that time, he estimated the cue I would like to have him build would have cost $7-8k and I have paid that in a heart beat. I know it is a lot of money and more than I spent on my Prewitt cue but it didn’t matter to me. However, the added
cost of ordering the cue by going to his shop added thousands to the price of a cue that made it financially infeasible.
I know that the cue design I had in mind (Knights Templar Design) would cost me so much more today than back then.
There is so much more that goes into cue making cost than the materials. And Joel doesn’t make cues full time, nor did Ed Prewitt. That is why both cue makers produce a limited number of cues annually that adds to the demand for their cues in the secondary market. Now if you have never owned a business or been responsible for the bottom line results, you can’t begin to appreciate all the other many costs that must be covered and therefore factored into pricing. Some cues can be very expensive and until you understand the nuances of cue making, it is easier to critique prices. In reality, what a cue maker charges involves a compendium of factors but price alone does not make a cue well made.
Even if I spent $10k for a Hercek cue, there are readers of this thread that I could play pool with. They could let me pick the worst condition house cue, any weight or horrible tip, and they’d wipe the floor with me and my expensive cue. The
cue is a tool and like with tools, they are better built brands to choose from. A cue is not any different. It’s a tool and in the hands of some players, the cue could be a $100 garage sale pickup but they make it perform like a Stradivarius.
There isn’t substitute for player skills that any cue cannot impart to its owner. It’s always the Indian and never the arrow.
My admiration for Joel Hercek is way beyond what most forum readers might also have. I never told this story before but years ago, Joel contacted me out of the blue. He does occasionally visit this Forum. Needless to say, I was a lot more than startled by his phone call. He was aware of how much praise and profound admiration I posted on Az about his cue making over many years of participation on Az, he wanted to meet me. And despite being old enough to be his dad, at that moment I felt like a little kid talking with Mickey Mantle. And I was born and raised in NYC and watched him play. So my analogy of how excited I was to speak with whom I consider the best living cue maker, or at the very least a heralded name in cue making, is spot on. It was a thrill and we spoke about a variety of topics involving cue making including my beliefs about cue anatomy.
Much to my delight, he told me that I was right to think that way because I was not incorrect. He took time to explain some things to me about how he approaches cue making and how much time Burton Spain spent teaching him about building cues. He was open, friendly and communicative with his time that I was completely floored. He told me I could contact him any time and he even offered to build me a cue. The only limitation was California’s ivory ban prevented him from accepting my cue order while I was in California and shipping it to me was impossible. But if I ever was in his neighborhood, placed an order and actually picked it up from him or shipped to a different state than CA, everything was kosher. As you can see, it turned into a complicated and more expensive cue order since i lived thousands of miles away. Of course, he has a long wait list and only produces less than 2 dozen cues annually so that was a factor as well.
At that time, he estimated the cue I would like to have him build would have cost $7-8k and I have paid that in a heart beat. I know it is a lot of money and more than I spent on my Prewitt cue but it didn’t matter to me. However, the added
cost of ordering the cue by going to his shop added thousands to the price of a cue that made it financially infeasible.
I know that the cue design I had in mind (Knights Templar Design) would cost me so much more today than back then.
There is so much more that goes into cue making cost than the materials. And Joel doesn’t make cues full time, nor did Ed Prewitt. That is why both cue makers produce a limited number of cues annually that adds to the demand for their cues in the secondary market. Now if you have never owned a business or been responsible for the bottom line results, you can’t begin to appreciate all the other many costs that must be covered and therefore factored into pricing. Some cues can be very expensive and until you understand the nuances of cue making, it is easier to critique prices. In reality, what a cue maker charges involves a compendium of factors but price alone does not make a cue well made.
Even if I spent $10k for a Hercek cue, there are readers of this thread that I could play pool with. They could let me pick the worst condition house cue, any weight or horrible tip, and they’d wipe the floor with me and my expensive cue. The
cue is a tool and like with tools, they are better built brands to choose from. A cue is not any different. It’s a tool and in the hands of some players, the cue could be a $100 garage sale pickup but they make it perform like a Stradivarius.
There isn’t substitute for player skills that any cue cannot impart to its owner. It’s always the Indian and never the arrow.
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My cues live in my car year round in Boston weather. The CF is immune to the weather.
I have the same kind of neighbors. Thank God for that.I feel very fortunate that my neighbors have laying hens and will occasionally knock on the door with a carton or two.
I passed on that Barnhart sneaky as I thought it wasn't a good deal. Bought a nice 4 point last year directly from the cuemaker for $2k. Wouldn't have been that price if sent to a dealer.
I'll give you the moto answer here to cue pricing. Cues that are reasonably priced sell, those that aren't don't.
Your opinion is just that - your opinion.
it is impossible to have gouging when you have an option for unlimited competition, which there is in making cues. actually the market new and used is flooded with them.
so the prices are really fair for what you get. you may not like paying it but the prices are fair from the simplest cheap cues to the most expensive.
as each person though has their own definition of value. find yours.
and the stock market is double or more than in 2017. and real estate prices are more than double in good areas.
so the prices are really fair for what you get. you may not like paying it but the prices are fair from the simplest cheap cues to the most expensive.
as each person though has their own definition of value. find yours.
and the stock market is double or more than in 2017. and real estate prices are more than double in good areas.
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Not necessarily true. CF, can be effected by extreme cold and heat. The adhesives that bond the tip to ferrule, ferrule to shaft, joint insert, etc, are all subject to degradation due to the temperatures inside of a vehicle.
Just some food for thought.
And they say stock market and real estate is a bubble about to burst. Let's hope cue prices burst as well.
ive had my basic two piece, looking house wood cue, in my car constantly for over 50 years and still perfectly straight, thru 120 degrees humid and dry and minus 30 cold for periods of time. and may have won more money over time than any other single cue ever.
lets hope not, as your house will be worth less and any investment you may own. if you are broke then it may be good for you. but then you still wont be able to afford the cue you want.