Break advice....I think I need a high speed camera...

[tjlmbklr]

I have been finding my knack for using a 2 inch shorter break cue (not the topic, it is what it is). I have a very long reach so it took a while to find the right combination of grip/stance/bridge. But I have lost whitey in the process.

I broke 3 games in a row where the CB sored of the table. But I am crushing the rack. Sure I could take some of my break but there are bigger hitters that control whitey so I want to learn what I am doing wrong. I even try aiming slight to the left of the head ball (CB goes off right side). And if I am not sending it off the table it seems to find the side pocket. Luckily the games I were play were for fun and the guy I was playing wasn't very good; hence the reason I was breaking all the time..

For the record I am trying to hit center ball no follow, no draw. But maybe my tip posisition upon impact is scooping or following the CB making it jump....

Dr. Dave I need you high speed camera!

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[BVal]

I have been finding my knack for using a 2 inch shorter break cue (not the topic, it is what it is). I have a very long reach so it took a while to find the right combination of grip/stance/bridge. But I have lost whitey in the process.

I broke 3 games in a row where the CB sored of the table. But I am crushing the rack. Sure I could take some of my break but there are bigger hitters that control whitey so I want to learn what I am doing wrong. I even try aiming slight to the left of the head ball (CB goes off right side). And if I am not sending it off the table it seems to find the side pocket. Luckily the games I were play were for fun and the guy I was playing wasn't very good; hence the reason I was breaking all the time..

For the record I am trying to hit center ball no follow, no draw. But maybe my tip posisition upon impact is scooping or following the CB making it jump....

Dr. Dave I need you high speed camera!

Even if you have your cue as level as possible the cue ball is coming off the table when breaking. it is not that you are "scooping" the ball but the fact that the butt of your cue is still higher than the tip causing the cue ball to drive into the table and come off of it. If it flies off the table you are most likely not hitting the head ball square, same if it is going straight to the side pocket. I would concentrate on hitting the head ball square while taking a little bit of power off of your break. Once you hit the head ball square consisntently then proceed to add power until you find the point where you can't control it anymore.

 

[sfleinen]

Hitting "down" on the cueball makes it tend to jump

I have been finding my knack for using a 2 inch shorter break cue (not the topic, it is what it is). I have a very long reach so it took a while to find the right combination of grip/stance/bridge. But I have lost whitey in the process.

I broke 3 games in a row where the CB sored of the table. But I am crushing the rack. Sure I could take some of my break but there are bigger hitters that control whitey so I want to learn what I am doing wrong. I even try aiming slight to the left of the head ball (CB goes off right side). And if I am not sending it off the table it seems to find the side pocket. Luckily the games I were play were for fun and the guy I was playing wasn't very good; hence the reason I was breaking all the time..

For the record I am trying to hit center ball no follow, no draw. But maybe my tip posisition upon impact is scooping or following the CB making it jump....

Dr. Dave I need you high speed camera!

tjlmbklr:

It sounds like you're hitting slightly "downwards" on the cue ball, causing it to jump (or even be completely in the air) before it hits the head ball. If the cue ball is not exactly at the very same horizontal centerline level with the head ball at contact (i.e. the cue ball's equator is above the head ball's equator at time of impact), the cue ball has no place to go but "up" and in many cases (e.g. the cue has follow/top-spin applied), "over" the rack -- going off the table.

This is usually due to hitting the cue ball with a non-level cue. The cue should be as parallel to the table surface as you can possibly get it, minus the obvious mandatory very-slight downwards angle you're forced to apply due to the height of the rails, as well as leeway for your gripping hand to clear the rail as it passes over the top of the rail.

I don't subscribe to the camp ("movement?") of folks that admire when the cue ball hops straight up in the air during a powerful break. To me, that vertical motion of the cue ball is power LOST -- power that wasn't transferred into the rack but escaped as vertical motion -- as well as the cue ball itself being "lost" temporarily (you never know where on the table it's going to land).

A good player to analyze for his powerful break -- which is founded upon a level cue at time of impact without hopping the cue ball -- is Evgeny Stalev:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkCG3q2PDa4
(At 9:20 in the video, you'll see the first of Evgeny's powerful breaks.)

Notice how simple his break is -- just the arm and pectoral muscle is used. Yet he generates in excess of a 35mph break (high 30's most of the time).

Anyway, I hope that's helpful info!
-Sean

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Over 35 MPH?????

 

[Blackjack]

Never sacrifice accuracy for power.

 

[sfleinen]

Over 35 MPH?????

Tennesseejoe:

Yes, in excess of 35mph. Although methinks Francisco Bustamante had the record at one time for break speed (not sure what it was and if it still stands), at that very same U.S. Open in the video, Evgeny attracted enough interest with his break that someone called for a radar gun. His breaks were averaging 35-37mph.

P.S.: last year, at the Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge, PA, an amateur player (don't know his name) hit the Longoni cue booth's speed test table with a 36mph break, taking home the fastest break "cheese" after Longoni had accumulated four days' worth of walk-up attempts from expo attendees -- and that was after Larry Nevel had given his go at the same speed test. But as Blackjack sagely advises, precision over power any day!

-Sean

 

[CreeDo]

2 other things (other than lowering cue angle) that I have heard on this:

- A bad rack where the head ball is a bit loose can cause this. I don't get the physics on this and I'm not convinced it's real but it seems to matter.

- Some swear that draw will help prevent this. Again I'm not sure on the physics, and in any case it might be a bad solution as you're sacrificing CB control, you'll draw to the head rail and from there who knows.

 

[chazdillon]

i heard of a trick...try aiming at the bottom of the one ball. nomatter where u are at with the cueball the bottom of the one will give u a dead hit.

 

[tom mcgonagle]

The precision it takes to hit the one squarely is often underestimated. A hole in the spot also causes the cue-ball to leave the table more easily.

 

[sfleinen]

Methinks Tom McGonagle might've nailed it

The precision it takes to hit the one squarely is often underestimated. A hole in the spot also causes the cue-ball to leave the table more easily.

Methinks Tom nailed it here -- if that headball is resting in a divot on the footspot, that headball's equator is going to be "lower" than the cue ball's equator upon impact, acting as a "wheel chock" or a "motorcycle jump ramp" -- sending that cue ball upwards and over the rack.

Would be interested if the original poster (tjlmbklr) could somehow check this, to see if there's a deep divot in the footspot of the table. (I seem to recall him mentioning that there's already divots in the table that restrict the position of racking the balls to a precise location -- almost as if the table were tapped -- otherwise the balls "wander" into their divots when the rack is removed.)

tjlmbklr -- what think ye? Deeply gouged footspot?

-Sean

 

[tjlmbklr]

Thanks sfleinen;1699001,

I am Familiar w/ his break and love his game. His break reminds me of SVB with the pause and long follow through. I however am not able grip the cue in the same manner as most do. I have a very long reach. Every time I grip the butt perpendicular like when I grip my playing cue I can't get full power. I have said before and I will say it again. I know break cues are traditionally shorter and stiffer. But because of this I am forced to take some off on my break (because of the reason this post was started). BUT, if I had a longer yet still light weight cue I know I would be very comfortable breaking and probably with my fastest "bat speed" ever too.

If I were rich I would have a custom 60" break cue made and I bet my problems would be solved.

tjlmbklr:

It sounds like you're hitting slightly "downwards" on the cue ball, causing it to jump (or even be completely in the air) before it hits the head ball. If the cue ball is not exactly at the very same horizontal centerline level with the head ball at contact (i.e. the cue ball's equator is above the head ball's equator at time of impact), the cue ball has no place to go but "up" and in many cases (e.g. the cue has follow/top-spin applied), "over" the rack -- going off the table.

This is usually due to hitting the cue ball with a non-level cue. The cue should be as parallel to the table surface as you can possibly get it, minus the obvious mandatory very-slight downwards angle you're forced to apply due to the height of the rails, as well as leeway for your gripping hand to clear the rail as it passes over the top of the rail.

I don't subscribe to the camp ("movement?") of folks that admire when the cue ball hops straight up in the air during a powerful break. To me, that vertical motion of the cue ball is power LOST -- power that wasn't transferred into the rack but escaped as vertical motion -- as well as the cue ball itself being "lost" temporarily (you never know where on the table it's going to land).

A good player to analyze for his powerful break -- which is founded upon a level cue at time of impact without hopping the cue ball -- is Evgeny Stalev:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkCG3q2PDa4
(At 9:20 in the video, you'll see the first of Evgeny's powerful breaks.)

Notice how simple his break is -- just the arm and pectoral muscle is used. Yet he generates in excess of a 35mph break (high 30's most of the time).

Anyway, I hope that's helpful info!
-Sean

 

[tjlmbklr]

I have played w/ this idea too. Romines has a bad habit of never replacing there rack spots. The tables are recovered once a year....so are the spots..:angry:

2 other things (other than lowering cue angle) that I have heard on this:

- A bad rack where the head ball is a bit loose can cause this. I don't get the physics on this and I'm not convinced it's real but it seems to matter.

- Some swear that draw will help prevent this. Again I'm not sure on the physics, and in any case it might be a bad solution as you're sacrificing CB control, you'll draw to the head rail and from there who knows.