Tell him we miss his input.
Question for Bob Jewett
- Thread starter kaznj
- Start date
Tell him we miss his input.
if you cross-bank it with inside(left), you are also transferring right spin to the ob, increasing the rebound angle.
Patrick, you little devil...:grin: There was a big discussion on the carom forum a month or two ago about outside/inside english in regards 3C shots. Most of them think a little differently about it than do pool players.
You are correct, of course, in relation to which direction the OB goes after CB contact. However, I think most poolplayers (including I) believe that the inside/outside distinction is in relation to the direction the OB takes after it banks.
Great talking with you at DCC!
Doc
Well, you probably mean most 1 pocket players - I'm pretty sure they speak a different dialect.
Same here! I'm sorry I (pretty much) missed Joey.
pj
chgo
Probably easier to define inside and outside based on where one would strike the cueball, just like how we use the terms high and low. Inside = hit the ball on the side closest to the vertex, outside= hit the ball on the side away from the vertex. So yes in this case, we would be using inside to shorten the bank.
I think of it in a way that makes it visual and easy to remember for me: Inside and Outside "The Angle":
If you replace the object ball with a rail, the same principles apply:
pj
chgo
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I guess I am out of the loop.. I refer to inside/outside in reference to the exit angle from a cushion....
if you have another use for English that does not include the exit angle from the cushion as its major proponent I would like to see it..
cut angle is irrelevant
exit angle from the cushion determines inside from outside.....
at least that is how it works in my little world...
natural... unnatural
running... reverse
running side ...check side
outside... inside...
2 effects ... multiple terms..
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You're kidding, right? You've never heard of using outside english to minimize throw on a cut shot? There's no rail involved at all, so how do we know it's "outside"?
pj
chgo
Let's say there are two shots:
1. A kick shot: the CB is shot into the rail at an angle.
2. A bank shot: the CB is shot into an OB, which then hits the rail at an angle.
Do you hit the same side of the CB for both shots to get "running" spin?
pj
chgo
What english do you use on a bank to get running english?
It depends on the cut angle between the CB and OB:
"Inside" and "outside" describe what happens between two objects. The two objects don't have to be a ball and a rail; they can be two balls. On a bank shot there are three objects, two balls and a rail, so there are two interactions: one between the CB & OB and another between the OB & rail. The two interactions can have the same kind of spin or different kinds.
pj
chgo
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yes I have heard of that.. as well as its opposite adding throw to achieve near impossible cut angles..
but it's not a good practice as you are letting the cue ball loose in both cases..
in your example I believe altering the aim to compensate for the throw is preferable to losing your cue ball 99.9% of the time.
My Belief is that adding english to sink a ball is completely unnecessary in nearly all cases and increases the complexity significantly and at the end of the day it still lets the cue ball loose.
English used properly changes the cue balls exit angle from a cushion. allowing you to retain control of the cue ball.
IMO
1. inside,and outside english are very relevant
2. the angle of incidence determines whether the OB will acquire running spin or not.
for example if you can GIVE an OB running spin by using english then you must also be able to give it reverse spin..
I'll wait patiently for you to produce a video showing an OB coming off the rail at an unnatural angle based solely upon the spin you apply to the cueball..
I think I'll be waiting a very long time...:boring2:
Not if it's the spin you happen to need for shape, or if you're shooting the last ball and don't need shape (these are the circumstances in which it's generally suggested).
I (mostly) agree, but whether it's advisable to use english or not has nothing to do with what we call that english.
"English used properly" can do more than that, including on shots where the CB never reaches a rail. In all cases "inside" and "outside" are used to describe the kind of english - how do you suppose that's done?
pj
chgo
All of this is beside the point.
You're kidding again, right? You've never "twisted" a bank?
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVA-21.htm
pj
chgo
its a useful shot using throw.. more english more throw
but I do not see any direct evidence of transferred spin..