I have owned a number of Joss Cues made during the Mid 1980's, the cue I am talking about will have Joss Custom on the joint collars. I have seen a number for sale on eBay lately and they normal sell for half the price of a Schon. Helmstetter cues also made during this time frame will also have a very similar hit, and they will cost less than the Joss cues. A good example of the Helmstetter cues I am speaking about are the 86 series cues, they have great designs, and they also hit very good. However, because they were made in Japan they have never become collectible, which makes them allot of cue for little money.