stroke help

Looks pretty strong, one thing I noticed is that sometimes you lift your head a little as you shoot and you stand up sort of quick at times.

I would like to see you keep your head down a second longer and stay over your shot, that's just MHO for whats it worth.
 
that was one of the things i noticed also when i watched it myself.

if anyone else gets time and wants to critique feel free
 
-the head lifting
-try building a consistant, and deliberate approach to each shot, everything should be decided about the shot before your first step begins toward the table to play it.
-stroke looks good in the beginning ..... slower strokes, pause, accellerating follow through - but later on in the clip it almoost looks like you're throwing the cue forward a little bit, not quite following through as deliberately. i keep reminding myself of some advice a former world snooker champion told me: slowwwwwwbaaaaack..........and follow through! your backswing should always be slower than your follow through, it allows for a more deliberate stroke and better transition in direction at the back of the stroke.

this stuff seems to work for me anyways, i have the same problems time to time. sometimes i just go through the motions and throw the cue forward. without even realizing it. a stroke should be a consious effort, not an unconcious one.
 
That was the only thing I noticed too. You don't get your head as low as some people but I know a lot of people who shoot great that way, so I consider that a personal preference. It looked like you wanted more draw/spin/whatever on that last ball you shot before you were forced to bank the 3 (the final ball on the table)

You may have already heard of this, but on somewhat trickier shots, especially long ones, I find putting a small pause before your forward stroke is awesome... i.e. on the final swing you go back, stop a split second, then forward. I'd say mine is about 1.5 seconds at most. It's pretty rare I go through a rack without having to use that pause once or twice. You don't need it every time, just on shots where you know you gotta hit an exact spot on the cue ball, or deliver it very straight to make a tough shot. It doesn't sound like much but it can actually bring your game up to work that pause in there. Just learning to do it will reveal flaws in your stroke like a tendency to swerve to the side, hit with unnecessary sidespin, or drop your tip down while drawing. Even if you don't really have serious issues it'll just buy you an extra second of focus before you deliver.

When you first start doing it you'll feel like drawing far is almost impossible because you can't do a fluid back-to-forward stroke but as you practice it you'll find that goes away.

Other than that, everything looks pretty good.
 
tuffstuff07 said:
that was one of the things i noticed also when i watched it myself.

if anyone else gets time and wants to critique feel free
Click to expand...

A few things I noticed.

Try adding a pause after your last practice stroke. It gives you a chance to focus on the object ball before you shoot, not to mention settle yourself in a tough spot.

Your stance is very unsteady. I can't see your feet but I suspect a wider stance would be helpful. You should find an instructor to help you out in this matter though so that you can be sure that you are steady and on line.

Pocket speed. Don't hit the ball any harder than you need to, a lot of shots were slammed in needlessly. I know they were easy but it's how you lose the cue ball and miss easy shots.
 
decide to freeze at the end of your stroke...

decide to wait until the cueball hits the OB before you allow yourself to move.

decide before you even put your hand on the table..

get used to the sound of the ball falling in the pocket ... get used to hearing it...

then you won't need to see it...

you won't need to peek to see IF it went

decide to remain still.. and just KNOW it will go..

or the condensed version..

STAY DOWN!!!!

good luck.:thumbup:
 
Was I the only one who noticed that his grip was WAY ahead of perpendicular (tall guy + long bridge = hold your cue at the end), and there was NO stop at the CB, before hitting it? These are just a couple of things that can result in missing exactly where you think you're aiming on the CB.
Head height over the cue doesn't mean much, as long as the cuestick is level at contact...which is what the correct grip and timing will get you.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
CreeDo said:
You don't need it every time, just on shots where you know you gotta hit an exact spot on the cue ball, or deliver it very straight to make a tough shot. .
Click to expand...

I would disagree here. If it's important on some shots, you need it on
EVERY shot. Every shot is important, and the big issue of consistency comes from doing the same things every time you shoot...not just on some shots.

Steve
 
Scott Lee said:
Was I the only one who noticed that his grip was WAY ahead of perpendicular (tall guy + long bridge = hold your cue at the end), and there was NO stop at the CB, before hitting it? These are just a couple of things that can result in missing exactly where you think you're aiming on the CB.
Head height over the cue doesn't mean much, as long as the cuestick is level at contact...which is what the correct grip and timing will get you.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I noticed the same things. Watching most players, I can usually tell when the warm-ups are done and the final stroke is coming. I never knew when it was coming on this video. I also noticed the tip coming up after the shot on some shots. The angle didn't allow the viewer to see the arm, but the tip rising usually indicates a tightning of the grip, or elbow drop, or both.

Not a big thing, but something everyone doing this should consider. If you are going to video yourself for a critique, don't just run balls. Set up shots where YOU are in the frame. And the camera should be on the side where your body doesn't block the view of your grip hand and arm. On a video review, I don't care what the balls are doing, I want to see what the shooter is doing.

Steve
 
Scott Lee said:
Was I the only one who noticed that his grip was WAY ahead of perpendicular (tall guy + long bridge = hold your cue at the end), and there was NO stop at the CB, before hitting it? These are just a couple of things that can result in missing exactly where you think you're aiming on the CB.
Head height over the cue doesn't mean much, as long as the cuestick is level at contact...which is what the correct grip and timing will get you.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott,
Why is grip ahead of perpendicular a bad thing? That is the way many older professionals like Mosconi shot. I like the feel of that myself because when drawing back the cue doesn't bind between the fingers and the web of the hand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Efren is also slightly forward of perpendicular.

Now, the single biggest thing I saw which would help you is your approach. There is a video at the top of the video section here which is awsome regarding this subject. I can post a link later, or PM me if you need.

I also noticed that sometimes going through the cueball, you were driving with your upper arm. Bustamante seems to do this too, but it seems to make most people inconsistent.

IMO, head height over the cue is simply: Up - Object ball aiming focused Down - Cue ball aiming focused. Not an issue, just be consistent.

At times your cue could be more level, but maybe I am not seeing everything correct.

The video lacked much footage of your stroke arm side. It was only shown once or twice. Ideally, it would be best to show like 30 side pocket to side pocket shots with a view of your stroke arm side. Maybe 10 closed bridge, 10 open bridge, and 10 off the rail(cue on rail) bridge.

Good luck and enjoy the game. BTW. . .I love the idea of a table in the garage! You are my hero. I could put a 4.5 x 9 in there.
 
nksmfamjp said:
Scott,
Why is grip ahead of perpendicular a bad thing? That is the way many older professionals like Mosconi shot. I like the feel of that myself because when drawing back the cue doesn't bind between the fingers and the web of the hand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Efren is also slightly forward of perpendicular.

Now, the single biggest thing I saw which would help you is your approach. There is a video at the top of the video section here which is awsome regarding this subject. I can post a link later, or PM me if you need.

I also noticed that sometimes going through the cueball, you were driving with your upper arm. Bustamante seems to do this too, but it seems to make most people inconsistent.

IMO, head height over the cue is simply: Up - Object ball aiming focused Down - Cue ball aiming focused. Not an issue, just be consistent.

At times your cue could be more level, but maybe I am not seeing everything correct.

The video lacked much footage of your stroke arm side. It was only shown once or twice. Ideally, it would be best to show like 30 side pocket to side pocket shots with a view of your stroke arm side. Maybe 10 closed bridge, 10 open bridge, and 10 off the rail(cue on rail) bridge.

Good luck and enjoy the game. BTW. . .I love the idea of a table in the garage! You are my hero. I could put a 4.5 x 9 in there.
Click to expand...

nksmfamjp

Well, I'm not Scott, BUT:

"Why is grip ahead of perpendicular a bad thing? That is the way many older professionals like Mosconi shot. I like the feel of that myself because when drawing back the cue doesn't bind between the fingers and the web of the hand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Efren is also slightly forward of perpendicular."

When your grip hand is ahead or behind perpendicular your cue tip never arrives on the cueball in the same place. Every shot is different. The cue tip is already moving off cueball target.

Yes Mr. Mosconi did play ahead at one time in his career. A different game but he certainly overcome his cue tip with years of play.

Efren is very close to 90 degrees.

If your cue binds between the fingers and the web of the hand, you should check your grip tension not position.

Thanks for listening. Let's see what Scott has to offer....SPF=randyg
 
thanks guys i would love to take a lesson just no money at the time.

so 3 things to work on are

1) move grip hand back?
scott stated that i am ahead of being perpendicular?

2) widen stance

3) slow down and take a pause before i begin my final stroke and slow backswing

i am going to try and work on these are far as position i usually don't do to bad. i can get to the ball i need pretty well and usually run 4-7 balls in league. 7 ft and 9 ft tables.

i was just trying to get a quick video together to watch and then have people evaluate.

I thank everyone for taking the time to watch and evaluate my stroke.
 
Here are some things I notice.

1. From your stroke, which is constant and does not pause, it makes me wonder where your eyes are at any given point. When are they at the cue ball (so you know exactly where the tip will contact the CB)? When are they at the object ball (so you'll know where you're wanting to contact the OB)? Where are your eyes when you pull the trigger (They should be at the aim point for the OB)? In short, do you have any type of an eye pattern? If you don't know what this is, then you may not.

2. Grip ahead of perpendicular. As stated above this could be an issue with consistency.

3. The cue is shooting down into the table some. This can do a couple of things. It robs the CB of the energy you're giving it when you stroke. Any side spin may masse the CB, ever so slightly, but it will masse the CB. Its inconsistent.

Now, these are just the things directly associated with your stroke. Pre-shot routine, 'seeing' the whole shot before you get down etc.. they will help as well, but we were just looking at the stroke for now.

As far as ways to change your stroke. Here is my suggestion. Set up a drill for each thing you wish to change. Practice that and only that in that drill. Example: Leveling out your cue. Set up a stop shot with the cue ball at the head string, a diamond from the side rail. The OB two diamonds down, but straight into the corner pocket.
When you get down into your stance, the cue should be just over the rail. While you are down, you should be able to drop your shoulder slightly, and the cue will touch the rail. (this is not suggesting you use your shoulder to stroke, it's only a way of checking how far off the table the cue is.) Shoot the shot, stopping your CB at the OB.
Now this is where the magic is.. ONLY do this while you practice. DO NOT DO THIS WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING. When you're playing, don't even think about it. When you've practice something (on a regular basis), it will automatically become part of your game without you having to think about it.

I hope my suggestions help. Best of luck.
 
Randy hit the nail on the head. When your forearm is ahead of perpendicular, the cuetip will "dive" towards the cloth, and not allow you to strike the CB accurately. For many players with this problem, they will get away with it on many shots. However, if you're aiming at maximum low, you'll likely miscue, as the tip is moving down at impact (as opposed to being 'level'). Then your subconscious mind makes you aim higher, to avoid the miscue. In effect, you end up not hitting exactly where you're aiming. Any pro can practice a bad habit long enough (years, or even decades), to make it successful for them. Most of us would rather not do that, but find a solution...and as quick as we can.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

nksmfamjp said:
Scott,
Why is grip ahead of perpendicular a bad thing? That is the way many older professionals like Mosconi shot. I like the feel of that myself because when drawing back the cue doesn't bind between the fingers and the web of the hand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Efren is also slightly forward of perpendicular.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Randy hit the nail on the head. When your forearm is ahead of perpendicular, the cuetip will "dive" towards the cloth, and not allow you to strike the CB accurately. For many players with this problem, they will get away with it on many shots. However, if you're aiming at maximum low, you'll likely miscue, as the tip is moving down at impact (as opposed to being 'level'). Then your subconscious mind makes you aim higher, to avoid the miscue. In effect, you end up not hitting exactly where you're aiming. Any pro can practice a bad habit long enough (years, or even decades), to make it successful for them. Most of us would rather not do that, but find a solution...and as quick as we can.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

goodpost.gif
 
Scott Lee said:
Was I the only one who noticed that his grip was WAY ahead of perpendicular (tall guy + long bridge = hold your cue at the end), and there was NO stop at the CB, before hitting it? These are just a couple of things that can result in missing exactly where you think you're aiming on the CB.
Head height over the cue doesn't mean much, as long as the cuestick is level at contact...which is what the correct grip and timing will get you.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
Scott, I noticed but I wasn't going to say anything. I also noticed the no pause or distinction between his warm ups and final stroke. Since his hand is too far forward he seems to be lunging a little and his elbow drops too soon. I fought real hard when you tried to correct that in my stroke. I can't thank you enough for catching it. Slowly the pieces are coming together and it is a beautiful thing. Thanks Scott!! :)
 
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