Somebody explain how sidebets work?

Tokyo-dave

Tokyo-dave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The other day, I was playing with a banger friend of mine when a 'player' noticed me and approached me for a game. We ended up agreeing to play for $50 sets. I had my banger friend with me, and he had a group of 3-4 guys on his side. Before we started to play, my opponent asks around "anyone for side bets" but nobody replied.
My question is, how are side bets worked out? By that I mean, by soliciting for side bets, was this guy asking the people watching wether or not they wanted to bet? Right? And, when people watching and betting among themselves, how is it that there is anything for the players involved? I guess the reason I wonder why, is why did my opponent ask around about side bets, unless that were to mean that he would also have a stake in any of the action going on besides what we were betting between the two of us players.
Can somebody explain a situation similar to mine with side bets and the many different ways the side betting might affect the two players involved? In other words, is this a situation where the two players involved might recieve money from a side bet without having personally being involved in any of the betting other than the one with the opposite player?
Scenarios please?
Thanks,
dave
 
Tokyo-dave said:
I guess the reason I wonder why, is why did my opponent ask around about side bets, unless that were to mean that he would also have a stake in any of the action going on besides what we were betting between the two of us players.

dave
Click to expand...

You basically answered your own question. Maybe the bet you made with your opponent was not enough to satisfy him. So in turn, your opponent looks to bet more on himself with other people in the room to satisfy his gambling.
 
He likely assumed that you weren't willing to raise the stakes. By also placing side bets with railbirds, he effectively increased his potential to win more money.
 
Furthermore, by splitting the bets between multiple people, no single person really loses much money. He does this to ensure that you're willing to gamble for longer.

An example would be if you lost the first match for $200. You might consider quitting, as $200 is a decent chunk of change. But if you only bet and lost $50, you wouldnt be that far down and might consider a second match. By betting only $50 with you as well as with the railbirds, he can win the $200 anyway, while keeping you happy and at the table for more action.

Make sense?
 
Tokyo-dave said:
The other day, I was playing with a banger friend of mine when a 'player' noticed me and approached me for a game. We ended up agreeing to play for $50 sets. I had my banger friend with me, and he had a group of 3-4 guys on his side. Before we started to play, my opponent asks around "anyone for side bets" but nobody replied.
My question is, how are side bets worked out? By that I mean, by soliciting for side bets, was this guy asking the people watching wether or not they wanted to bet? Right? And, when people watching and betting among themselves, how is it that there is anything for the players involved? I guess the reason I wonder why, is why did my opponent ask around about side bets, unless that were to mean that he would also have a stake in any of the action going on besides what we were betting between the two of us players.
Can somebody explain a situation similar to mine with side bets and the many different ways the side betting might affect the two players involved? In other words, is this a situation where the two players involved might recieve money from a side bet without having personally being involved in any of the betting other than the one with the opposite player?
Scenarios please?
Thanks,
dave
Click to expand...

Usually when someone asks to side bet it is because you don't want to bet as much as he would like. The problem is, if people take those side bets they are tapping into his bankroll. He may lose more on the side then you beat him for should you win. They in effect have won your money. The reason I say this is because you may have possibly raised the bet in a short time and ended up busting the guy. He may only have so much to lose. They are welcome to bet among themselves but not with the player. And should they bet with the player they certainly owe you a cut. I have actually seen players so angered by this that they would stall and lose for a while and then when the side money dries up go on and bust the guy. It may sound like a bad thing but many times side betters are just parasites looking to make a buck off someone else's skills. The side better has no idea what is in your mind before you play. Maybe you don't want to bet so high at first because you are short money. Maybe you have someone bringing you money but don't want the guy to leave so you make a game. Either way your motives of why you are betting the amount you are betting is no ones business but your own.

Want to hear a funny story. I was playing a guy in a bar and was down like $400.00 when the place closed. I talked him into going to a bowling alley that was open late with moonlight bowling that night. We get there and start playing, this is on a 9 foot table now by the way. Little did I know, I was just a dumb kid, the guys that followed us back to the bowling alley were betting with this guys friends like 5x what I was betting. When they went broke, the side bets busted them, I was still stuck $80.00 playing $40.00 a game. The guys that were betting on me knew I would probably beat the guy on a big table once back at the bowling alley. I didn't get a cent of their winnings other then a good lesson in the ways of the pool world.
 
Last edited:
nathandumoulin said:
Furthermore, by splitting the bets between multiple people, no single person really loses much money. He does this to ensure that you're willing to gamble for longer.

An example would be if you lost the first match for $200. You might consider quitting, as $200 is a decent chunk of change. But if you only bet and lost $50, you wouldnt be that far down and might consider a second match. By betting only $50 with you as well as with the railbirds, he can win the $200 anyway, while keeping you happy and at the table for more action.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
Suppose the player doesn't lose, then what? All the money was won by others who have nothing to do with the game.
 
He wanted to place a bet that he would win the match against you. You agreed to a 50 dollar bet.

He then asked anyone else if they wanted to bet against him winning the match with you. They could have bet against him too and he would have covered that bet. They just wouldn't be playing.

They could also bet amongst themselves. You could make a little money from these side bets if the bettor bet on you and you won and he felt like giving you a tip. This is called jelly. It's nice to spread a little jelly around when someone wins money for you.

Make sense?
 
macguy said:
Suppose the player doesn't lose, then what? All the money was won by others who have nothing to do with the game.
Click to expand...

A bet is a bet. Either way the person put their money on the line and if they win, they deserve it. If the player in question didn't like the side bets going on, then he should request that the stakes be raised so that he has a chance to win the money, rather than the railbirds.
 
Ok, that pretty much answers my question. Basically, there is a bet going on among the two players involved, and a side bet can be with one or both of the players involved additionally betting on the results with somebody not playing in the game. What I didn't totally understand, was that if I chose to ONLY bet with the player I'm playing, and a couple of railbirds bet money (among themselves) for me to win, then if I win, I only win the amount that I had bet against the other player, and possibly a 'tip' from one of the railbirds that won money based on my performance......................right?

My mistake was having learned to play pool in Japan where betting on pool isn't as nearly 'involved' as here in the states. That particular night, I found myself involved in a match that I could (and did win) but had no idea of how everything else 'off the table' works. I ended up $150 ahead after 3 races to 5 when the other guy decided to quit. After that particular experience, I have come away with the feeling that gambling here in the states is not entirely a matter of simply playing good pool.
Thanks to all the replies,
dave
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Ok, that pretty much answers my question. Basically, there is a bet going on among the two players involved, and a side bet can be with one or both of the players involved additionally betting on the results with somebody not playing in the game. What I didn't totally understand, was that if I chose to ONLY bet with the player I'm playing, and a couple of railbirds bet money (among themselves) for me to win, then if I win, I only win the amount that I had bet against the other player, and possibly a 'tip' from one of the railbirds that won money based on my performance......................right?
Click to expand...
You are correct. Just remember that the railbirds are not obligated to "tip" you. As a railbird, I have tipped before if my horse made me some money. I guess it's a karma thing for me.
 
Tipping the player is a funny thing.

Its courteous, but at the same time, it effectively ruins your odds.

Bet $100 on a match. If you win, you tip 15% and only win $85. Lose and you owe $100.

0.85 to 1 odds arent exactly ideal.

(I'd still tip if I were in that situation....so please dont think I'm trying to say otherwise :))
 
One other thing

before you do all that sidebetting. According to the law, in most states anyway (it is this way in Kansas), when third parties get involved betting on a pool match, all of them and the players too can be arrested for gambling. In Kansas, a pool match between 2 players for money is not considered gambling because it would be just like a 2 person tournament, and you are betting on your own skill.

It is this very fact why Calcuttas are usually kept quiet, because they really violate the law.

To qualify what I said, my brother has been an attorney for 40 years, and I had him specificAlly check on this for me. He checked this out with the District Attorney's office here in Wichita.
 
Snapshot9 said:
before you do all that sidebetting. According to the law, in most states anyway (it is this way in Kansas), when third parties get involved betting on a pool match, all of them and the players too can be arrested for gambling. In Kansas, a pool match between 2 players for money is not considered gambling because it would be just like a 2 person tournament, and you are betting on your own skill.

It is this very fact why Calcuttas are usually kept quiet, because they really violate the law.

To qualify what I said, my brother has been an attorney for 40 years, and I had him specificAlly check on this for me. He checked this out with the District Attorney's office here in Wichita.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
Neil said:
You shouldn't 'tip' or 'jelly' after each game, only at the end if your horse won.
Click to expand...

I agree....although I'm not grasping your point. Any amount (and any frequency in which you tip) still changes the odds to be against your favor.
 
nathandumoulin said:
A bet is a bet. Either way the person put their money on the line and if they win, they deserve it. If the player in question didn't like the side bets going on, then he should request that the stakes be raised so that he has a chance to win the money, rather than the railbirds.
Click to expand...

How you manage your games and what you bet is no ones business.
 
nathandumoulin said:
Tipping the player is a funny thing.

Its courteous, but at the same time, it effectively ruins your odds.

Bet $100 on a match. If you win, you tip 15% and only win $85. Lose and you owe $100.

0.85 to 1 odds arent exactly ideal.

(I'd still tip if I were in that situation....so please dont think I'm trying to say otherwise :))
Click to expand...



Then again you can dump the rail birds and then bust the guy later. Few side bettors bet on anything but a sure thing. They just want to horn in.

We are in this instance referring to betting between the player by the side bettors, not between side bettors themselves. They are actually involved in your game now.
 
Last edited:
macguy said:
How you manage your games and what you bet is no ones business.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. Isn't the whole point of the tread to discuss the details and intricacies of side betting?

macguy said:
We are in this instance referring to betting between the player by the side bettors, not between side bettors themselves. They are actually involved in your game now.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the bet from a railbirds perspective. I wasn't including the player at all. Not that it matters of course. Just trying to clarify. :)

Your idea about the player dumping to the railbirds in the first few sets is a good one though. I'd never thought of that before. It's a gutsy move, as the player would have to be certain that they could recover in the later sets. Then again, if they're also doing it to hide their speed, then it would work out to be very profitable in the long run. Again, a very nice point. :thumbup:
 
nathandumoulin said:
I'm confused. Isn't the whole point of the tread to discuss the details and intricacies of side betting?



I was talking about the bet from a railbirds perspective. I wasn't including the player at all. Not that it matters of course. Just trying to clarify. :)

Your idea about the player dumping to the railbirds in the first few sets is a good one though. I'd never thought of that before. It's a gutsy move, as the player would have to be certain that they could recover in the later sets. Then again, if they're also doing it to hide their speed, then it would work out to be very profitable in the long run. Again, a very nice point. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

In the big picture this is actually the point. People in the pool room minding their own business. I will give you an example. You are sitting there and a guy comes in. He looks like he may play and you ask him to play. He says yes a little sheepishly and you two head to a table in the back of the room. You no sooner have the balls racked before like 15 guys have moved in to watch the game. Your player knows they aren't there to watch him. After all you are just two players who got a table in the room to play. His assumption is they are there to watch you. You must be some kind of local star or something. The guy loses one set and can't get out the door fast enough.

Some of the idiots may even engage you in conversation like,

"How did you do with that guy you were playing last night, when I left you were up $300.00?"

Or "Why are you playing with a house cue, where is your Scruggs?".

They may even talk about you to each others right in front of the guy you are playing.

I was playing a guy one night when someone comes in I don't even know with his girl friend. He gets the table next to where I was playing and says to his girl, referring to me," He is the best player in here, one of the best in the state, I saw him run over a 100 before."
The guy I was paying quit the very next game.

People not minding their own business in the pool room is a pet peeve of most players.

There is no limit to how stupid squares in the pool rooms can be. Most just don't know any better I guess. It can be very frustrating though.
 
macguy said:
In the big picture this is actually the point. People in the pool room minding their own business. I will give you an example. You are sitting there and a guy comes in. He looks like he may play and you ask him to play. He says yes a little sheepishly and you two head to a table in the back of the room. You no sooner have the balls racked before like 15 guys have moved in to watch the game. Your player knows they aren't there to watch him. After all you are just two players who got a table in the room to play. His assumption is they are there to watch you. You must be some kind of local star or something. The guy loses one set and can't get out the door fast enough.

Some of the idiots may even engage you in conversation like,

"How did you do with that guy you were playing last night, when I left you were up $300.00?"

Or "Why are you playing with a house cue, where is your Scruggs?".

They may even talk about you to each others right in front of the guy you are playing.

I was playing a guy one night when someone comes in I don't even know with his girl friend. He gets the table next to where I was playing and says to his girl, referring to me," He is the best player in here, one of the best in the state, I saw him run over a 100 before."
The guy I was paying quit the very next game.

People not minding their own business in the pool room is a pet peeve of most players.

There is no limit to how stupid squares in the pool rooms can be. Most just don't know any better I guess. It can be very frustrating though.
Click to expand...

That made perfect sense now that you've clarified.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top