That's good enuf for me... thanks Buddy. :thumbup2:
Are jump shot devices helpful & legal
- Thread starter KoolKat9Lives
- Start date
Interesting!
A good Pool buddy of mine (Jamie Sanders) has a device that he calls a
'Jump Stilt' that looks like it originated from a tree at where a branch goes out from the trunk. It is used when you have to bridge over a ball, and have to play a jump shot.
It works pretty well, plus anyone could just whittle their own Jump Stilt.
A good Pool buddy of mine (Jamie Sanders) has a device that he calls a
'Jump Stilt' that looks like it originated from a tree at where a branch goes out from the trunk. It is used when you have to bridge over a ball, and have to play a jump shot.
It works pretty well, plus anyone could just whittle their own Jump Stilt.
So I could make a very short dowel to go into my Moosehead Bridge head, and use it for jump shots, then?
I can see it coming now
Apparently in some instances, but we've been forewarned, you may not use it against oldzilla!
(see post 18)
Thanks tatcat for the info on a few legal/non-legal scenarios. It still makes you wonder about all the other local, regional, etc. tourneys, as well as money matches.
Hypothetical Example: There's a big money match being broadcast on TAR, and let's say just for giggles, our beloved action hound poster Chris Bartrum is taking on the Rocket.
Chris busts out out the EZ Jump and puts it on the table and readies to use it.
Rocket: "dude, put the clown piece away."
Chris: "Nuh uh big boy. It's legal. I saw it posted on AZ Billiards."
Rocket: "I'm gonna count to 3, and if it doesn't disappear, I'm telling your momma."
Chris: "I don't care if you hold your breath past dinner, it's a legal play."
I dunno folks, seems like much is left for interpretation, and hence, confrontation.
KK9 <-- might get one just to try it in a situation I know is going to shark someone off their game.
Apparently in some instances, but we've been forewarned, you may not use it against oldzilla!
(see post 18)Thanks tatcat for the info on a few legal/non-legal scenarios. It still makes you wonder about all the other local, regional, etc. tourneys, as well as money matches.
Hypothetical Example: There's a big money match being broadcast on TAR, and let's say just for giggles, our beloved action hound poster Chris Bartrum is taking on the Rocket.
Chris busts out out the EZ Jump and puts it on the table and readies to use it.
Rocket: "dude, put the clown piece away."
Chris: "Nuh uh big boy. It's legal. I saw it posted on AZ Billiards."
Rocket: "I'm gonna count to 3, and if it doesn't disappear, I'm telling your momma."
Chris: "I don't care if you hold your breath past dinner, it's a legal play."
I dunno folks, seems like much is left for interpretation, and hence, confrontation.
KK9 <-- might get one just to try it in a situation I know is going to shark someone off their game.
I designed myself one of these gizmos, because they work. The benefit derived, as I see it, is this. The added height gives up more stroke distance. More distance of stroke gives up more SPEED. Thus the luxury of jumping balls easily...
They also add to the balance of the shot, bcause they are solid.
Your competitor may or may not like watching you use an aid to help your play...
They also add to the balance of the shot, bcause they are solid.
Your competitor may or may not like watching you use an aid to help your play...
More BCAPL info and an apology...
Oops.....
It looks as if I spoke out of line ealier, which anyone who knows me will tell you is something I have a phobia about and almost never do. However -
When I made my post I was unaware that the EZ Jumper was under review by the BCAPL National Office. I made my post based on previous discussions with the National Office about bridge construction. However, another facet of the situation completely slipped by me, which was the actual purpose and situational usage of the device, which is where the current deliberations are focused.
While there is little doubt that the devices I said were legal in the previous post meet the "letter of the law" under BCAPL rules for construction of mechanical bridges, intended usage and effect may still be at issue.
PLease take a few things away from this post:
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
Oops.....
It looks as if I spoke out of line ealier, which anyone who knows me will tell you is something I have a phobia about and almost never do. However -
When I made my post I was unaware that the EZ Jumper was under review by the BCAPL National Office. I made my post based on previous discussions with the National Office about bridge construction. However, another facet of the situation completely slipped by me, which was the actual purpose and situational usage of the device, which is where the current deliberations are focused.
While there is little doubt that the devices I said were legal in the previous post meet the "letter of the law" under BCAPL rules for construction of mechanical bridges, intended usage and effect may still be at issue.
PLease take a few things away from this post:
- it is not my intent to blow up this thread or start a long discussion about whether such devices should be allowed to be used in certain situations. (I'm certainly not trying to squash a discussion either, but the BCAPL is already well aware that the issues of usage, intent, advantage gained, traditional prcatices and the spirit of the game are complex, and that there are two sides to just about every facet of the argument.) There will be no rush to judgment by the BCAPL, since it is a horribly complicated issue to deal with in terms of enforcement (if any) and the language used to write a ruling once a decision has been reached;
- you may rest assured that the discussion at the National Office will be thourough and long - it always is concerning such an issue;
- please feel free to continue to use any such devices until a ruling has been reached;
- Keep in mind, as always, that this post refers only to BCAPL play.
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
Don gave me a lesson with this ez jumper on saturday and it works very well, so simple and smooth!!! why couldnt you consider this a mechanical bridge? just curious.
Aaron, if you know how to get ahold of Don, would you have him give me a call. We are evaluating the EZ-Jumper and he said he would send me one if requested. I have misplaced his contact information. Thanks
Bill Stock
BCA Pool League
Rules Administrator
702-719-7665
Good question.
I wish there were a better picture than the one I pulled from an online sales outfit. It looks like the shooter is having to support the EZ Jumper while the EZ Jumper supports the cue. That seems unstable, yet I know there's more to it.
How does this EZ Jumper stay stable during use? Any better pic's around?
TatKat - Thanks for correcting. I don't think you've done any damage. If you initially said it was legal and then came back and said it wasn't, then you mighta had some PO'd folk in league play (the ones that didn't read the "retraction"). Please keep us posted.
if you buy this there's a good chance you're one of the few people that has "TOO" much money.
............
The best thing I can offer is this video clip showing it in use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDFDToOZ5AU
If you fast-forward to about 1:26, you can see a shot of Don's hand while he's holding the EZ-Jumper. It's hard to make out exactly what's going on there, but basically he's using something close to a traditional bridge, while pinching the device between his thumb and forefinger. The base of the device is sitting flush on the bed of the table, and he's tilting it forward about 10-15 degrees. This is the method Don recommends, and I've found it to be surprisingly stable.
Aaron
I just can't think that these are any good for your game. You get dependent on it. Anything other than the cue you're holding will not be there all the time for you. It's probably not legal in many places. Not to mention, it wouldn't be appreciated if you whipped out one of these during a money game.
I guess that I don't see the big deal being made here.
Mechanical bridges have been a part of the billiards/pool scene since its inception.
Jump cues are a relatively late-breaking tool of the game and are commonly accepted, howbeit not in all tournaments, as being legal devices to be used in competition.
Using a jump bridge that is designed to be used with a jump cue is a non-issue for me.
One might argue that you shouldn't be dependant on them... I'm not. They have their time and place... just like kicking. Certain shots call for a kick... others call for a jump shot... and still others call for a jump shot using a jump bridge.
Mechanical bridges have been a part of the billiards/pool scene since its inception.
Jump cues are a relatively late-breaking tool of the game and are commonly accepted, howbeit not in all tournaments, as being legal devices to be used in competition.
Using a jump bridge that is designed to be used with a jump cue is a non-issue for me.
One might argue that you shouldn't be dependant on them... I'm not. They have their time and place... just like kicking. Certain shots call for a kick... others call for a jump shot... and still others call for a jump shot using a jump bridge.
Official BCAPL reply
The BCAPL National Office has completed its review of the products/devices in question within this thread.
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
The BCAPL National Office has completed its review of the products/devices in question within this thread.
- Jump Buddy - illegal.
- EZ Jumper and other devices resembling mechanical bridges and their function of supporting the cue shaft - legal within the constraints of BCAPL Rules, with specific attention to BCAPL Rule 1.3.1(e-f) and BCAPL Applied Ruling 1.3.
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
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