When the object ball is on the rail: Is it better to use insie english, outside english, top spin, or draw to get the object ball to hug the rail on its way to the corner pocket?
Rail shots question
- Thread starter 8Ball48043
- Start date
None of the above. To make the OB hug the rail you simply have to hit it straight down the rail, adjusting where you hit it for the kind of spin you're using (overcut with inside, undercut with outside, etc.), just as you would if the rail wasn't there. [In other words, hit the CB with whatever spin is needed for shape.]
Some say inside spin gives you the best chance of hitting the right spot because you get two chances: one on the CB's way into the rail and another on its way out from the rail. I'm skeptical of that because it seems to me the CB has two chances to hit the right spot with outside spin too.
pj
chgo
Shooting a ball frozen on a cushion is discussed at length in Jack Koehler's "Science of Pocket Billiards." The main thing in most cases is to hit the cushion first, but you probably shouldn't be thinking about hitting the cushion first. You should be thinking about making the ball.
As far as hugging the rail, on worn cloth, the rail groove is a big help for that.
Independent of cue ball position: Does some specific English tend to keep the object ball tight against the rail as it heads toward the corner pocket?
Here are a few things to consider. Outside, or railside english will throw away from the rail, the opposite is true is also true, inside = into the rail. To get "rail hugging" action you have to hit the rail SLIGHTLY before the object ball. This negates collision induced throw into the rail because you are hitting the ball PAST the contact point and throwning towards the pocket along the rail.
Now as far as getting the ball into the pocket cleaner, you can look at pocketing english. Stand behind the object ball, looking at the pocket you want to shoot to. If you see a pocket facing, lets say the left hand pocket facing, then left hand english is pocketing english. Left on the cueball, puts right on the object ball. Right on the object ball helps the ball spin into the pocket off of the facing. The opposite holds true for right. Pocketing english is the same side of the cueball as the pocket facing you see the most of. If you have a straight into the pocket view meaning you cant see either facing, doesnt matter what side spin the ob has, neither is going to help in pocketing the ball.
Chuck
Now as far as getting the ball into the pocket cleaner, you can look at pocketing english. Stand behind the object ball, looking at the pocket you want to shoot to. If you see a pocket facing, lets say the left hand pocket facing, then left hand english is pocketing english. Left on the cueball, puts right on the object ball. Right on the object ball helps the ball spin into the pocket off of the facing. The opposite holds true for right. Pocketing english is the same side of the cueball as the pocket facing you see the most of. If you have a straight into the pocket view meaning you cant see either facing, doesnt matter what side spin the ob has, neither is going to help in pocketing the ball.
Chuck
Really? Usually the difference between a make and a miss.
No. This is a myth.
Likewise, you should not try to transfer spin to the OB to "help the ball spin into the pocket off of the facing" - the OB won't hold enough transferred spin to matter and you'll just lose aiming accuracy.
There are lots of myths in pool - these are some of the most common ones.
pj
chgo
Yes, if you try to "spin it in" you usually miss. "Get-in" or "helping" english is nonsense.
pj
chgo
Pocketing english is a myth huh?
Experiment challenge to whoever reads this.
Shoot 10 balls into the pocket with no english
Shoot 10 balls into the pocket with pocketing english
Shoot 10 balls into the pocket with the reverse of pocketing english
Come back and tell us what ball enters the pocket cleaner.
Im not going to argue with you Pat, since that seems to be your only hobby in life. Sorry ol buddy.
Chuck
you gotta hit rail first a hair before the object ball, or aim to shoot the object ball slightly away from the rail (as if you are shooting to hit the tit with the object ball). You will know when you get good at this cause you will be able to cut anything down any length of rail. A trick for the longer cuts, try to imagine that the pocket is only a diamond away instead of 4 or 5 away. The mental scare of it being a difficult shot seems to disappear when I do this.
I vote for hitting the exact target that you would use if there were no rail there.
That's assuming you are happy with natural roll of the cue ball.
The real problem with a lot of these rail shots is whether draw or outside english will help you more in bringing the cue ball back to mid table, and your confidence in using these without botching the shot.
That's assuming you are happy with natural roll of the cue ball.
The real problem with a lot of these rail shots is whether draw or outside english will help you more in bringing the cue ball back to mid table, and your confidence in using these without botching the shot.
Yes, it is.
Testing is better than arguing. Let's see what people say.
But here's a test for you: shoot all 30 of those shots with no object ball; just shoot the CB down the rail with or without sidespin. This will eliminate the aiming problem and each shot will have lots more spin on it than you can transfer to an object ball. Be sure to report back to us.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
Me too. I even vote for aiming the shot as if there's no rail there.
However, balls near the rail are easier for me to aim than balls far from the rail - the rail acts as a visual cue, pointing to the pocket. I'd like to have a "ghost rail" next to every OB I shoot to make it easy to find the contact point - especially back cuts! Matter of fact, sometimes I visualize a ghost rail for back cuts...
pj
chgo
If the cue ball is off the rail and the object ball is on the rail the object ball will hug the rail with inside english.
If both the object ball AND the cue ball are on the rail outside english (rail side english) will make both balls hug the rail.
Try RiverCity's experiment and you shall see he is correct.
Agreed PJ. I believed this before this weekend, however, after spending two days with Mark Wilson (whom I'm willing to bet plays better than anyone in this thread) where he used several examples to show me that the transference of spin although possible is so minute as to make it neglible. Ranks right up there with aiming systems, but thats another can of worms.:grin:
You probably didn't mean it this way, but just to be clear:
Enough spin can be transferred to the OB to make a significant difference in how it rebounds from a rail. In fact, many banks that aren't "on" can be made this way (ask any banks or 1 pocket player).
But even maximum transferred spin isn't enough to determine whether or not an OB will go into a pocket off the pocket's facing. Put it another way: you can't transfer enough spin to cause an OB not to drop off a pocket facing.
pj
chgo