Masse jump cue????

V

Venomtrickshots

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi, maybe some of you know who I am and some other not ^^So for all my name is Florian Kohler and I'm known as Venom in the trick shot world!

I need to know one thing, do anyone know if any masse jump cue was ever done in the world??I'm actually trying to develop one by myself and already have some good result but not the perfection..
So I was wondering if you guys know how to solve this problem with a special wood or other thing...

I'll explain you:
You have the cueball near the middle of the head cushion, blocked by a row of ball and the object ball in the corner.The aim is to pocket the OB, so you jump over the row and after the cueball spins back...
I do this easily over a rack but Im still missing a little to easily jump the balls.Anyway, if I put a piece of felt under, it works easily...

So my question is how to remove the piece of felt by changing a part or anything in my cue???I know it's a little tricky to understand me but ...^^
 
Welcome to the AZ forum! We've been following your trick shot exploits on YouTube for some time - simply fantastic! Sky's the limit for you - congrat's.
I'll offer this (most of which I have to think you probably know unless, as could be the case, you're doing most of what you do based on raw talent & the drive to achieve results based on learning by brute, repetitive, dedicated effort)...
A masse cue is usually pretty heavy, and achieves it's result by driving thru the cueball & imparting spin. A jump cue is normally much lighter & intended to impart force to the cueball, and then deflect out of the way to allow the ball to come up unimpeded. Two very different requirements. Using a piece of cloth acts as a cushion - or trampoline effect, which is why it's easier to jump. Jumping balls on heavy or backed cloth is easier than doing so on Simonis, Gorina, etc, for exactly this reason.
Something I'd suggest, if you haven't done so already, is to contact Mike Massey or Tom Rossman & discuss this with them. Both are wonderful, open, friendly people who care deeply about the sport and, frankly, would probably relish the opportunity to have an influence on the career of someone who is inarguably at the cutting edge of expanding the medium.
Best of luck!!
 
Thanks you for this kind of words, I really appreciate!!Iknow Tom rossman who is, I agree a really a nice guy,I'll ask him the question!!Anyway, if guys like him haven't find this, it's maybe that it's purely impossible^^Anyway, I keep believing something is possible I'll keep you informed!!
thanks!
 
Hi Venom. I was talking to my sponsor Crown Cues about this recently. Their still trying to work up a magic formula, but from experiences, it seems I can more easily do a jump-masse with a lighter weight cue. I'm also going to try to see if there's a difference between using the brass ferrule or a regular one. But yeah, clearing a whole ball and getting the masse effect is difficult.
 
Hi Venom,

I'm wondering about what tip you are doing the jump-masse' with and it's size. Also what type of ferrule are you using?
 
Hi! sorry for my late response!

To crowncues:
Glad to talk finally to you, you're almost a legend in the artistic pool world!Anyway actually I use Le Pro or Triangle 14mm, they arent the most efficient but they are the most durable!Some Talisman's are great but too fragile.
The ferrule it's made in "aluminium"(not sure if the word exist in English) so it's very strong...

To 1hit1der:
I personally believe that the brass ferrule makes a lot of difference compared to a plastic ferrule, it's well easier, I don't know why...

To billiardshots: Very nice videos you find out!!
 
Venom,
Let us know when you get something made that you really like & show us some pic's. Also - when you get some video's available for sale, be sure and let the folks on AZ know about them & where/how to purchase them!
 
Dieckman Butzzzz In [pun intended]

mdavis228 said:
Welcome to the AZ forum! We've been following your trick shot exploits on YouTube for some time - simply fantastic! Sky's the limit for you - congrat's.
I'll offer this (most of which I have to think you probably know unless, as could be the case, you're doing most of what you do based on raw talent & the drive to achieve results based on learning by brute, repetitive, dedicated effort)...
A masse cue is usually pretty heavy, and achieves it's result by driving thru the cueball & imparting spin. A jump cue is normally much lighter & intended to impart force to the cueball, and then deflect out of the way to allow the ball to come up unimpeded. Two very different requirements. Using a piece of cloth acts as a cushion - or trampoline effect, which is why it's easier to jump. Jumping balls on heavy or backed cloth is easier than doing so on Simonis, Gorina, etc, for exactly this reason.
Something I'd suggest, if you haven't done so already, is to contact Mike Massey or Tom Rossman & discuss this with them. Both are wonderful, open, friendly people who care deeply about the sport and, frankly, would probably relish the opportunity to have an influence on the career of someone who is inarguably at the cutting edge of expanding the medium.
Best of luck!!
Click to expand...

MDavis228 hit the nail on the head. A masse cue should be VERY heavy and a jump cue should be VERY light, IMNSHO. Trying to make one do the job of the other is like using your sand wedge on the tee trying to hit it 300 yards or your driver in one of those damn English pot bunkers trying to get out. Just won't work.

I buillt my first masse cue in early 1980's after measuring one that Raymond Ceulemans used in an exhibition I had the pleasure to attend.
Since then I have built masse cues for Mark Kulungian, Mike Massey, Jamison Neu, Eric Yow, Tom Rossman, Shooter Collins and many, many others, all VERY VERY heavy. I can even use this type of cue myself, just good enought to scare a few neophytes.:yikes::groucho:

Now as to jump cues. When I was growing up [in the Stone Age :rolleyes: ] if you bounced the ball around the table it usually meant you had mis-cued in some form or another. Although I have made some jump cues since then I basically consider the shot an abomination:nono: :barf: to be used only by Neanderthals who have more brawn than brains. The jump shot should be banned from the game. There, I have said it, got it off my chest. :sorry:

You already know what I think about Ivory so I won't go there. Want to hear me rant about hustler cues. Just ask and I will go there.:bash:
 

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Venom, the videos you create are awesome. I always look forward to seeing a new one.

I don't think there is any special wood to make a jump-masse' cue out of. Just a hard wood that is not prone to splitting.

If you use a layered tip, I'd suggest you shorten it. Otherwise the sideways force causes them to have a tendency to separate.

With the Le Pro, Triangles, you might try compressing the tip. This will make the tip a little harder and should help. Also a smaller (13 -13.5 mm) tip seems to work better. I think you are on the right track with the aluminum ferrule if it's hardened 6061 or 7075.

Dennis, have you noticed that we can now buy 15 mm tips from Atlas?
 
Well, my first DVD is on track and will probably ready in one month or two...
The trailer will be ready in 10 days I think, but I've already seen it and it's insane..The producer of mastering pool
made again a fantastic job...yOU'll see, trust me^^

About this cue: well I know that dieckman's cues are heavy I played a little with one.that was a great cue...But how much is it heavy?
I mean my cues are 700 OR 850 grammes...

About the tip, thanks for the advice!
And about the diameter of the cue that's exactly what I wanted to try, shorten it to 12 Or 12,5...I guess it
could give me more flexibility.

About the cue I build unfortunately I don't have it right now but I could send you some pics for friday!
It was a snooker cue I totally change!!

And really, we can buy 15mm tips? Do you have a link where I can find them, cause 14mm on a 14mm cue it's always a battle^^
 
Below are the links for 15 mm Triangle and Le Pro tips.

Triangle - http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=121&ITEM_ID=5806

Le Pro - http://www.cuestik.com/store/product.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=121&ITEM_ID=5804

I consider heavy starting at around 825 grams and light wieght masse' cues being between 575 and 625 grams. I'm not sure but I think most of Dieckman's masse' cues are around 850 grams and heavier.

I think the lighter weight masse' cues seem to work better for most to jump-masse with. Does your lighter cue jump better for you?
 
thanks for the link I appreciate !!
About the masse cue I working on a heavier cue (1kg) to see the result but I'm not sure of what Im doing^^

abou the jumpmasse cue, mine is actually 325grammes...So really light for a masse but considering during the jump you do a quite long distance this is heavy enough to get the backspin!
 
Alright, like I promised, the photos are there!

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=76589P1010579.jpg


http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=178308P1010577.jpg


About the technicals points:

the result for the yellow is:
jump a rack: perfect, lot of control on the cb
balls : still very hard,
good masse
diameter: 14 mm
weigh: 445 gr



the other one:

jump a rack: perfect
balls: possible but cueball control is hard
masse good but as the yellow one
weigh: 380 gr



The wood is the same and the ferrule are made in aluminium

And i forgot:
one cue the yellow one, was a 3 cushin cue
and the wooden one was a snooker cue!
 
ok jump masse is done by having a 14-16 oz cue with a very hard tip. You want to almost miscue and snap very fast into the ball. The angle is not 90 degrees, but very close to it.

If you can you want to stop the cue soon as it hits the ball. It is hard to master this shot easy to make after that. The best masse cue you can get for this shot is very limber shaft, hard tip, low weight. Here is a video I made back when I shot jump masse. I shot the shot for about a twenty min period that day I made it about 90% I would have been 97% if I would have put a cue on the rail like most people that perform this type of trick shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7pcNyfHV0

If you can do it with a heavy cue it will make the cueball spin back faster. The ball jumps in the air higher with a low weight cue....OK there is my positive contribution to pool for the month.

Venom you hit the ball very well I watched your live recording very nice keep it up. Hope you pony up for a Dieckman soon you will not be disapointed. It will max out your potential spin. I have never sold one to anyone without them falling in love with it. Every player that ever had one went out of their way to show Dieckman their gratitude.

Mike Massey is the reason I knew about them. He told me that I had to have one if I was going to shooting masse shots. He was right too. I have been doing this stuff now for about 9-11 years and I'll tell you what two cues out of 30 have stood the test in that time. My Dieckman is indetructable I am conviced. I have tried my best to destroy it...

OK, so that is it, low weight, limber, hard tip. Stop at ball fast stroke. Almost a miscue hit not quite 90 degrees more like 92 or 88 however your mind works....these are all the things that matter in jump masse.

Still think dart like a normal jump shot just with a check at the end of your stroke....that is it! Check the stroke before you hit the table. That is the best way to say it on paper...lol

Hope this helps anyone out there reading about masse.
 
JamisonNeu said:
ok jump masse is done by having a 14-16 oz cue with a very hard tip. You want to almost miscue and snap very fast into the ball. The angle is not 90 degrees, but very close to it.

If you can you want to stop the cue soon as it hits the ball. It is hard to master this shot easy to make after that. The best masse cue you can get for this shot is very limber shaft, hard tip, low weight. Here is a video I made back when I shot jump masse. I shot the shot for about a twenty min period that day I made it about 90% I would have been 97% if I would have put a cue on the rail like most people that perform this type of trick shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7pcNyfHV0

If you can do it with a heavy cue it will make the cueball spin back faster. The ball jumps in the air higher with a low weight cue....OK there is my positive contribution to pool for the month.

Venom you hit the ball very well I watched your live recording very nice keep it up. Hope you pony up for a Dieckman soon you will not be disapointed. It will max out your potential spin. I have never sold one to anyone without them falling in love with it. Every player that ever had one went out of their way to show Dieckman their gratitude.

Mike Massey is the reason I knew about them. He told me that I had to have one if I was going to shooting masse shots. He was right too. I have been doing this stuff now for about 9-11 years and I'll tell you what two cues out of 30 have stood the test in that time. My Dieckman is indetructable I am conviced. I have tried my best to destroy it...

OK, so that is it, low weight, limber, hard tip. Stop at ball fast stroke. Almost a miscue hit not quite 90 degrees more like 92 or 88 however your mind works....these are all the things that matter in jump masse.

Still think dart like a normal jump shot just with a check at the end of your stroke....that is it! Check the stroke before you hit the table. That is the best way to say it on paper...lol

Hope this helps anyone out there reading about masse.
Click to expand...


Well, thanks for your help!!I'll try to do my best with your advices!
 
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