Pool really missed out with Macau

[CrownCityCorey]

The IPT, for all its flaws, had a prosperous business model/plan. Had the "Ho" acquisition gone through, the pool industry would have seen some share in what is going on out there. While Vegas is dying, Macau is sizzling. See below...

"High Rollers in Macau

The Chinese enclave of Macau has a hot hand again. Casino revenues leapt 17%, to a record $1.4 billion, in August as a big gaming palace opened and the Chinese government eased travel restrictions. As a result, casino operators are rushing to shore up balance sheets. Melco Crown Entertainment, controlled by Macau gambling scion Lawrence Ho, raised $200 million in a stock offering in August. Ho opened the $2.4 billion City of Dreams resort in June. Vegas mogul Steve Wynn aims to garner $1.6 billion in October by offloading a 25% stake in his Macau operations. But the biggest winner may be his Vegas rival Sheldon Adelson, who propped up his Las Vegas Sands last year by pumping in $1 billion of his own cash. Sands shares have shot from 1.40 to 19 in six months, and Adelson plans to offer shares in Sands' Macau subsidiary."

Work Cited

Maurer, Harry & Lindblad Cristina. "Executive Summary - Strategy." Business Week October, 5. 2009: 009. Print.

 

[center pocket]

I like your posts and I am always looking for new investments out there. I am currently invested in an international aggresive fund that has been during really well since this July. I am very pleased. I will start looking into these casino bids.

 

[Fatboy]

The IPT, for all its flaws, had a prosperous business model/plan. Had the "Ho" acquisition gone through, the pool industry would have seen some share in what is going on out there. While Vegas is dying, Macau is sizzling. See below...

"High Rollers in Macau

The Chinese enclave of Macau has a hot hand again. Casino revenues leapt 17%, to a record $1.4 billion, in August as a big gaming palace opened and the Chinese government eased travel restrictions. As a result, casino operators are rushing to shore up balance sheets. Melco Crown Entertainment, controlled by Macau gambling scion Lawrence Ho, raised $200 million in a stock offering in August. Ho opened the $2.4 billion City of Dreams resort in June. Vegas mogul Steve Wynn aims to garner $1.6 billion in October by offloading a 25% stake in his Macau operations. But the biggest winner may be his Vegas rival Sheldon Adelson, who propped up his Las Vegas Sands last year by pumping in $1 billion of his own cash. Sands shares have shot from 1.40 to 19 in six months, and Adelson plans to offer shares in Sands' Macau subsidiary."

Work Cited

Maurer, Harry & Lindblad Cristina. "Executive Summary - Strategy." Business Week October, 5. 2009: 009. Print.

If the Stanly Ho deal with the IPT worked, pool would be huge right now. I firmly believe if someone worked hard enough at it a deal could happen in Macau for pool on a huge scale. Everything there is right for pool it would work great and have huge $$$ behind it.

Imagine if Venetian and Wynn got into a pissing contest(like they do in Vegas) trying to one up the other guy in pool tournment payouts-We would finally see the champions make what they should, IMO 7 figures/year.


All that is necessary to do this is the right connections and a convincing pitch to the decision makers Wynn, Addelson, Ho etc, that pool would create even more $$$ for their existing gaming business would do even better with pool. The right pitch isnt the players(no offence to any champion) the right pitch is the audience. When ever pool is pitched to who ever all they talk about is the players-which is ass backwards. Think about it when you pitch a pro sports team to come to a city or world cup soccer or the Olympics what sells the deal is the attendance not the altheletes. So going to talk to Steve Wynn and Saying "I can get JA, Rodney and Ralf here to play" means NOTHING to a casino owner. Its all about the gate.


The right pitch is to talk about how much biz you can bring the casino, the players are the least of the business deal. Reggie Jackson was telling me about this years ago, he said "The owners dont care who's on the team as long as we win, there are exceptions as some players do attract more viewers, but thats secondary as a rule".


I'm not knocking the pro's in pool We ned them and I support them much as possible(not much this year), what we need is to create traffic at the gate, then the casion's will take notice. Look at Galviston-no gate, no $$$-but lots of players.


The right pitch is to get the fane interested in pool, then the pros will get what they deserve. I wish I had the time to organize something like this. I have spoke to a casion owner in Vegas(over 3000 rooms) on the strip, when I told him I can fill the place up he got interested, now I need to figure out how I'm going to do that. KT had empty bleachers too.


on a side note Vegas is dead, more than you can possibly imagine.

 

[woody_968]

the right pitch is the audience. When ever pool is pitched to who ever all they talk about is the players-which is ass backwards. Think about it when you pitch a pro sports team to come to a city or world cup soccer or the Olympics what sells the deal is the attendance not the altheletes.

As sad as it is, I dont think you can pitch the audience. Look at DCC, one of the best (if not THE best) tournaments out there. But really how many people are there just to watch? Ive never heard any hard numbers on ticket sales but it would be interesting to know. Dont get me wrong, they have good attendance, but its not like it would fill a stadium.

Ive always thought the pitch needs to be gambling. If the casinos could open up the betting windows on the matches you would have more people coming to watch and bet on the matches, and the casino would be making money on the bets. Unfortunately That would be a hard sell as they would be trusting the players to give 100% on every match instead of laying a bet on the other guy and dumping. In order for that to happen the prize money would have to be pretty high.

People are always saying we have to clean up pool for it to be popular. I say we need to quit fooling ourselves and embrace one of the things that really gets some people hooked on this game, and that is action!

I may be mistaken, but I believe betting is allowed on snooker matches overseas and one of the things that adds to its popularity.

JMO

Woody

 

[Roy Steffensen]

As sad as it is, I dont think you can pitch the audience. Look at DCC, one of the best (if not THE best) tournaments out there. But really how many people are there just to watch? Ive never heard any hard numbers on ticket sales but it would be interesting to know. Dont get me wrong, they have good attendance, but its not like it would fill a stadium.

Ive always thought the pitch needs to be gambling. If the casinos could open up the betting windows on the matches you would have more people coming to watch and bet on the matches, and the casino would be making money on the bets. Unfortunately That would be a hard sell as they would be trusting the players to give 100% on every match instead of laying a bet on the other guy and dumping. In order for that to happen the prize money would have to be pretty high.

People are always saying we have to clean up pool for it to be popular. I say we need to quit fooling ourselves and embrace one of the things that really gets some people hooked on this game, and that is action!

I may be mistaken, but I believe betting is allowed on snooker matches overseas and one of the things that adds to its popularity.

JMO

Woody

It is possible to bet live online at both snooker and pool.

I dont know how much money they are putting back into the game, but www.bwin.com broadcast 20-25 matches live each Eurotour, European Championships etc..

People can bet on each rack in these matches, who will win the match, next rack, who will win 5 games first, how many balls on break (0,1,2,3+) etc.

 

[woody_968]

People can bet on each rack in these matches, who will win the match, next rack, who will win 5 games first, how many balls on break (0,1,2,3+) etc.

Thanks for the reply, thats exactly what I am talking about. Do you think it hurts the sport? Or do you think it gets more people watching?


Woody

 

[ChazL]

Was there ever really an IPT deal???

The IPT, for all its flaws, had a prosperous business model/plan. Had the "Ho" acquisition gone through, the pool industry would have seen some share in what is going on out there.

Corey, you make some good points, and what follows is in no way intended to be antagonistic to you.

I think it should be said, however, that the only evidence that we have of a potential IPT/Ho deal are the less-than-reliable representations of Kevin Trudeau. To the best of my knowledge, there was never any credible third party confirmation that serious negotiations ever took place.

If I recall correctly, Stanley Ho was asked about the IPT deal shortly after KT reported that the transaction had collapsed at the 11th hour. Ho’s response was reportedly: “What’s an IPT?”

Yes, it would be great if a promoter could somehow tap into the vast pool of casino profits to fund professional pool. It is useful to recognize, though, that there is little reason for a casino operator to fund our sport unless we can somehow deliver the large gaming audience that Eric speaks of in his thoughtful post. I don’t believe that the IPT was ever close to doing that, and the formula to make this happen remains elusive.

 

[memikey]

How quickly some forget. A prosperous business model/plan !!!!! :smile:

I too mean no antagonism whatsoever to you. I'm just astonished to see anyone say that.

1. All the evidence actually points to the fact that the IPT had one of the worst thought out and most incompetent business model/plans in pool history. Let's just be thankful a few players and spectators got something positive out of it before its inevitable demise.

2. As the previous poster more or less said, the "Ho deal" was just another example of Trudeau's ability to fool the gullible. That myth only arose when the Titanic was already under water and on its way to the bottom. Injecting it into the equation was very clearly motivated by a need to make excuses for why they couldn't or wouldn't meet their obligations instead of just coming clean and admitting that they got their business plan and their expectations of pool players/publics interest in IPT so badly wrong. There's zero evidence there ever was even the beginnings of any deal with Ho. Furthermore the nature of the alleged Ho deal as hinted at by Trudeau at the time made absolutely no sense whatsoever to anyone with any business experience.Yet another example of the contempt in which he held pool players ability to think for themselves.

3. However couldn't agree more that the only viable sponsorship way forward for pool will certainly have the gambling industry involved in some way.

 

[memikey]

If the Stanly Ho deal with the IPT worked, pool would be huge right now. I firmly believe if someone worked hard enough at it a deal could happen in Macau for pool on a huge scale. Everything there is right for pool it would work great and have huge $$$ behind it.

Imagine if Venetian and Wynn got into a pissing contest(like they do in Vegas) trying to one up the other guy in pool tournment payouts-We would finally see the champions make what they should, IMO 7 figures/year.


All that is necessary to do this is the right connections and a convincing pitch to the decision makers Wynn, Addelson, Ho etc, that pool would create even more $$$ for their existing gaming business would do even better with pool. The right pitch isnt the players(no offence to any champion) the right pitch is the audience. When ever pool is pitched to who ever all they talk about is the players-which is ass backwards. Think about it when you pitch a pro sports team to come to a city or world cup soccer or the Olympics what sells the deal is the attendance not the altheletes. So going to talk to Steve Wynn and Saying "I can get JA, Rodney and Ralf here to play" means NOTHING to a casino owner. Its all about the gate.


The right pitch is to talk about how much biz you can bring the casino, the players are the least of the business deal. Reggie Jackson was telling me about this years ago, he said "The owners dont care who's on the team as long as we win, there are exceptions as some players do attract more viewers, but thats secondary as a rule".


I'm not knocking the pro's in pool We ned them and I support them much as possible(not much this year), what we need is to create traffic at the gate, then the casion's will take notice. Look at Galviston-no gate, no $$$-but lots of players.


The right pitch is to get the fane interested in pool, then the pros will get what they deserve. I wish I had the time to organize something like this. I have spoke to a casion owner in Vegas(over 3000 rooms) on the strip, when I told him I can fill the place up he got interested, now I need to figure out how I'm going to do that. KT had empty bleachers too.


on a side note Vegas is dead, more than you can possibly imagine.

Lot of sound common sense there Fatboy and not surprisingly some straight to the point marketing insights.

However the kind of way forward which you are proposing as a possibility is a completely different animal from the Ho deal that Trudeau was actually trying to pass off to pool players at the time as the one which caused the demise of the IPT.

The Ho deal in Trudeau's warped world had very little to do with Macau or casinos or selling out rooms. Try not to laugh at the memory of his bare faced lying but you must recall that the myth he tried to pass off to us with a straight face simply concerned the notion of Ho purchasing IPT as a unit and then having exclusive rights to online gambling on IPT events. His excuse for the failure of the purchase deal was activation of American laws regarding transfer of online gambling funds through Us bank accounts, thus making IPT a less attractive potential online gambling moneyspinner for Ho.

There were and still are a dozen reasons why although there is some truth to the existence of those laws etc they can have had absolutely nothing to do with the failure of Ho to purchase IPT, if any such potential Ho purchase ever genuinely came up in the first place and there is absolutely no good reason to believe that it did.

Call me a cynic but in a nutshell he tried a modified pyramid scheme to fund the first year of a pool tournament tour, probably hoping it would then take off. It failed quicker than most pyramid schemes mainly because of the general unpopularity of pool. He pretty quickly realised he'd been badly advised about the potential popularity of pool. He then instigated the process of cutting his losses and running and sought to deflect blame and buy time by inventing a potential purchaser of IPT who he said had pulled out of the purchase due to new american online gambling laws.

He might even at some stage of trying to mitigate his losses have held some delusions of actually interesting a Ho or some other mega moneyed concern in buying IPT but he would have inevitably had to quickly come to terms with the fact that he actually had nothing to sell. Neither Ho nor anyone else would have needed to buy IPT or take on their liabilities in order to own a pool tour or to do what Trudeau was suggesting re online gambling on pool. Lots of British and offshore bookmakers offered odds on the IPT events which did take place. There would have been absolutely nothing that Ho or any other purchaser of IPT could have done to prevent other parties running a book on events without paying one cent for the privilege. That entire concept of that mythical purchase of IPT was pure b/s. It still annoys me to this day that Trudeau insulted our intelligence so much by even putting forward that crap as an excuse and thinking nobody would see through it.

Fair?

The general nature of your idea is quite different and you have already identified the key, ie how to generate enough interest in pool. That has proved very elusive for a very long time and in a faster and faster paced world with more and more things competing for our attention and our money it's not likely to get any less elusive. Good luck.