Switching to a low deflection shaft, pros and cons?

[enzo]

I've played all my serious pool using an old school maple shaft.

For those that have tried the low deflection shafts as well as non-low deflection shafts:

- What do you see as the pros and cons?

- How did it affect your level of play?

- Also, what do most of the professionals use these days?


Thanks in advance for sharing,

Matt

pros are your capacity to be more accurate is increased, there really is no arguing this. if you have to account for 1.5 inches of deflection over the length of the table with a normal shaft, whereas it's .5 inches on the same shot with an ld shaft, well, you'll be more accurate with the LD shaft.

con is you have to get used to it. and for me an even bigger con was i couldn't do slight masse shots as well with the LD shaft simply because the cue ball didnt jump or squirt out as much

i think almost 2/3 of pros us LD shafts (and rising). there are so many bunk arguments about this out there. "they use them because they get paid to use them etc" pros use what they play best with, believe me on that one. knowing that, and knowing 2/3 of pros use LD shafts, AND considering there is a lag time when the player has to get used to the shaft and feel comfortable with it, it should become clear that LD shafts are more accurate. the argument being the only reason more pros arent using LD shafts is that they are used to the deflection in older shafts and dont want to have to make a drastic change in their game. i think in 30 years almost all players will use LD shafts as they will have been brought up with them.

 

[mnShooter]

I would say any player serious about their game should get a low deflection shaft.

The biggest difference is when you are shooting hard with a lot of english. With a regular shaft you might have to aim the cue a foot away from the object ball to make the shot. With a low deflection shaft you may only have to have the cue pointing three or four inches away. This automatically makes you 50-75% more accurate when using english. There are certain shots that most players cannot do with a regular shaft but with a low deflection shaft can make them most of the time.

These naysayers can have their feel. I feel a lot better when I run out on them. Also I have yet to see a shaft that looks better than a 314.

It will take a month or two to get used to the LD shaft and maybe even 6 months to really know how the cue is going to react to all shots. Depending on how much you play. Don't give up on it.

The only downside is you will not be able to use english with a regular shaft or a bar cue.

 

[Nick B]

For me it's about linearity. Yes many great cues are inherently LD-like. I'm not talking about radial consistency (I think the difference is small). LD Shafts I find to more linear as you apply more power or spin. Conventional shafts seem to have a knee like response where as you go outside of center with more power they from a certain point become less linear. This is non-scientific just a observation over years of play.

I learned playing with conventional maple. Switched to Ash (snooker background) and now use Predators and Ash still for snooker. I have tried OB's but find them a little whippy for my liking. Nice shaft just not for me. Can I play with a conventional shaft? Absolutely. It just takes a little more thinking to override the "Computer". I suspect the problem that most people have with LD shafts when they start is that the smaller amount of squirt makes them think that they are over spinning the ball. The actual result is due to less deflection and the ball now crosses back (assuming we are talking about outside English).

I believe that most of todays new pros play with LD's of some sort. The math speaks for it's self. If anyone is thinking that a Pro would jeopardize his performance for such a trivial sponsorship...you crazy. Most pros who play with Predator shafts get absolutely zip.

I'm still playing with my pre-Chinese 314's. I'm waiting for them to come back home or for the Chinese to figure out how to make them better. I have 4 for my current cue so I'm in no hurry.

 

[m79a]

I recently made the switch to the OB1, I'm pissed off that I didn't switch earlier. I have yet to find a con.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I'd like to address the answer of specifically getting used to LD shafts, or any shaft for that matter.

If you get a new shaft, and start competing with it, or just practicing running out with it, you will eventually learn it. But I think this way will take the longest. The reason is when you miss a shot, and then go onto the next shot, you won't be able to practice the shot to LEARN it. The same shot or similar shot might not come up for several games. So you will be slowly learning the shots.

The best way to learn a new shaft is to use drills. Drills that focus on position play. Drills that set up easy shots, with varying position targets. Drills that you shoot 10 times each at least, so you get a chance to notice what is going on, and for your brain to automatically adjust what you are doing. After learning the shots by these drills, when they come up in a game, you won't be experimenting with it during the game. You will have done all your experimenting during the drill phase, and you will know how to hit it.

The best drill guide for this is Joe Tucker's "Guaranteed Improvement" book. Its just $10. The best money you will spend on pool.

All in my opinion of course, but I truly believe everything I wrote to be the fastest way to learn a new shaft, or to improve with your existing shaft for that matter.

 

[nthamix]

LD shafts

LD shafts are the BEST!


Brian

 

[jmizzo]

LD Shafts

I made the switch to a radial shaft much like the 314 about 2 years ago. The adjustment time was horrible, and I felt like my game suffered. Then I got used to playing with it, and felt like I could control the ball better than with the original shaft I was using. That being said, I made the switch back because I purchased a Huebler and wanted to hear what the fuss was about the hit, imo I could never go back, atleast while im shooting with Hueblers. The feel is amazing, I use a long small taper (prob about 12mm, no calipers available) and the deflection isnt really that bad. The feel that my current player has, I dont think can be met with a ld shaft (havent tried ob1 or 2) but shooting with a predator took away the feel aspect, which made a McDermott or any other cue feel the same because of the shaft. It didnt take quite so long to make the adjustment back, but I am happy for it, and my game has actually improved (other factors could be at work here as well.) This is just my opinion, I have no problem with the LD shafts, they just are not for me, not right now atleast. Unless putting a plastic insert into the shaft, that might do the trick!

JM

 

[Dead Crab]

I'm still waiting for evidence that a low-deflection shaft actually out performs a standard shaft that is bridged at it's pivot point and used with back-hand English.

Evidence of this......anywhere?

 

[Pii]

Low deflection shafts still have deflection so it would seem to me you still have to adjust for deflection. Something you've probably been doing for years with your old shaft any way. If you weren't consistent with your old shaft you won't be consistent with a LD shaft either

Don't get me wrong I have an OB2 shaft (it came with the cue) and I like it but I've had maple shafts that I've also liked and regularly switch between the two.

Con: Can't use that big squirt action you had with you old shaft to get around a ball. Sometime deflection can be good.:wink:

 

[Pii]

I would say any player serious about their game should get a low deflection shaft.

The biggest difference is when you are shooting hard with a lot of english. With a regular shaft you might have to aim the cue a foot away from the object ball to make the shot. With a low deflection shaft you may only have to have the cue pointing three or four inches away. This automatically makes you 50-75% more accurate when using english. There are certain shots that most players cannot do with a regular shaft but with a low deflection shaft can make them most of the time.

.

How do you figure that? Fuzzy math at it's best:wink: you're not 50 to 70% more accurate you're simply aiming at a point the is 50 to 70% closer to the object ball than you did with a maple shaft.

You still have to aim somewhere else other than the contact point. I don't see how it's any different, other than you aim at a different point in space. That has nothing to do with being accurate it only has to do with were you think you need to aim and it's up to you to make an accurate guess as to what that squirt action will be no matter what shaft you use.

 

[Pii]

pros are your capacity to be more accurate is increased, there really is no arguing this..

Disagree see my previous post:grin:

And if they are so much better how come I still beat the guys I used to even after they switched to LD shafts?

 

[mikepage]

How do you figure that? Fuzzy math at it's best:wink: you're not 50 to 70% more accurate you're simply aiming at a point the is 50 to 70% closer to the object ball than you did with a maple shaft.

You still have to aim somewhere else other than the contact point. I don't see how it's any different, other than you aim at a different point in space. That has nothing to do with being accurate it only has to do with were you think you need to aim and it's up to you to make an accurate guess as to what that squirt action will be no matter what shaft you use.

The idea is it's easier to make a 5 mm plus or minus 1 mm adjustment than it is to make a 10 mm plus or minus 1 mm adjustment (20% versus 10%).

If it's true a group of top players fully accustomed to LD shafts perform better than the same group of top players fully accustomed to "normal" deflection shafts, I'm pretty confident the difference is pretty small.

more spin -- baloney

radial consistency -- so what?

(I imagine a normal piece of wood might be more flexible bending in one direction than another--but I don't really see that subtle difference affecting anything that matters.)

On the other hand I think it makes a lot of sense to manufacture shafts the way OB & predator, etc are doing...

 

[dr_dave]

How do you figure that? Fuzzy math at it's best:wink: you're not 50 to 70% more accurate you're simply aiming at a point the is 50 to 70% closer to the object ball than you did with a maple shaft.

You still have to aim somewhere else other than the contact point. I don't see how it's any different, other than you aim at a different point in space. That has nothing to do with being accurate it only has to do with were you think you need to aim and it's up to you to make an accurate guess as to what that squirt action will be no matter what shaft you use.

In my December '07 BD article, I illustrate and describe how a low-squirt shaft can help with accuracy. However, the difference (as compared to a regular-squirt cue) is very small. For more info, see:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#low_squirt​

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

more spin -- baloney

Actually, there might be a small (2-3%) spin-creating advantage with a low-squirt cue, but the difference is probably too small to notice. Regardless, there is an explanation for why some people might think they get more spin. For more info, see:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#spin​

Regards,
Dave

 

[jrt30004]

just my personal experience - i didn't like them. i started off with old meucci original shafts which you can't beat for the amount of spin they'll produce - however, you also have to be very creative when aiming because they give a large amount of deflection. when i hit a ball with my meuccis you can see the shaft wigglling long after the hit. with an ld (i tried the predator 314 and z) the deflection was noticeably(sp? word?) lower.i just couldn't force myself to make the necessary adjustments in aim and wound up hating them. when i got my custom the maple shaft was much stiffer thatn the meucci pre-dots and the adjustment period was very short - maybe a few weeks, and that's what i use today and will stick with it. i don't think there is a definate right or wrong. if ld shafts were the be all end all and perfect nobody would use anything else but that's not the case. i think it all comes down to try one and see how it fits your game.

 

[akaTrigger]

Cool! Great to hear. :smile:

BTW, I'm not greedy or nuttin', so sending only 10% of all future winnings is all I require. My PayPal addy is Ammatool@yoohoo.com.

I am sorry, I have a bad signal, I can't hear what you said. Did you say you would send me some money or something? I am not sure why, but Thanks!

 

[mm4pool]

one last update

i have been using my OB-2 now for three weeks and have made the following observations. whereas before i had to go extreme amounts of english to get the cue where i wanted it, i now rarely go past 1 1/2 tips from center to achieve the same results. this has allowed me to focus more on executing my stroke properly as RandyG taight me to. when i do this i get great results, if i get lazy it wouldnt matter what was in my hands. is the so called "LD" shaft worth it? in my opinion for me the answer is YES. is it the magic end all cure for stroke problems, NO. it is another tool when used properly will yeild the desired result.

on a side note i will say that OB also makes one hell of a break cue, I love mine!

Mike :smile:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Low deflection shafts still have deflection so it would seem to me you still have to adjust for deflection.

A little exaggeration might explain it for you:

To make a shot with squirt you have to aim an exact amount to the side of the target ("exact" to within, say 1/16 inch). If the amount is 1/2 inch it's not too hard, but what if the amount is 2 feet, 9 and 3/8 inches? Almost impossible to estimate that to within 1/16 inch. To a smaller (but still important) degree, that's the problem with more squirt.

Something you've probably been doing for years with your old shaft any way. If you weren't consistent with your old shaft you won't be consistent with a LD shaft either

You'll probably be more consistent.

Con: Can't use that big squirt action you had with you old shaft to get around a ball. Sometime deflection can be good.:wink:

You don't need squirt to "get around" a ball; all you have to do is aim a little to the side.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm still waiting for evidence that a low-deflection shaft actually out performs a standard shaft that is bridged at it's pivot point and used with back-hand English.

Evidence of this......anywhere?

What does "out performs" mean, and what evidence is there in either direction?

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

A little exaggeration might explain it for you:

To make a shot with squirt you have to aim an exact amount to the side of the target ("exact" to within, say 1/16 inch). If the amount is 1/2 inch it's not too hard, but what if the amount is 2 feet, 9 and 3/8 inches? Almost impossible to estimate that to within 1/16 inch. To a smaller (but still important) degree, that's the problem with more squirt.

You'll probably be more consistent.

I have a graphical illustration of this effect in Diagram 2 of my December '07 BD article. It might also help in the understanding. Although, as I point out in the article, the potential increase in accuracy is small.

Regards,
Dave