you're killing me with this thread LOL:grin-square:
Europe rocks
- Thread starter berry
- Start date
Hey, Berry, is there a European pool forum available for European pool enthusiasts? I was just curious.
America is superior when it come to anything and everything related to pool. AzBilliards is a great forum, ain't it?
Berry, some good natured bantering is fun, but your approach is somewhat primitive IMO.
US pool has contributed to the quality of the european players today. When Varner and Sigel, among others, played tournaments in the early 90's in Europe, they dominated. Show some respect.
That being said, GO EUROPE:wink:
pool 1 - patriotism 0
where ever the USA influenced a culture it has produced great pool players - Philipines Taiwan Japan Germany etc - WHEN THE PUPIL EXCELLS IT IS A COMPLEMENT TO THE TEACHER - great players enhance our game let's applaud them all -
where ever the USA influenced a culture it has produced great pool players - Philipines Taiwan Japan Germany etc - WHEN THE PUPIL EXCELLS IT IS A COMPLEMENT TO THE TEACHER - great players enhance our game let's applaud them all -
Who or what is "reals"?
The population of the Netherlands is physically the tallest in the world, with an average height of 1.83 meters (6 feet) for adult males and 1.70 meters (5 feet 7 inches) for adult females. A few centuries ago, it was among the shortest. The reasons for the increase in height are uncertain.
Source: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Netherlands [Retrieved 4 May 2009]
And they are also famous for their flowers. Wow, I'd love to see this sight. Mmm, I can almost smell them. How beautiful!
They (doctors and scientists) attribute this mostly to a better diet. From infancy!
It isn't so long ago that American pool players dominated the game worldwide. All that has changed in the last 15-20 years. I am the first to congratulate the great Asian and European players on their vastly improved skills and many accomplishments. With one exception, the filipinos. They were great players for a long time but we just didn't know it. They had some problems leaving their country for many years.
I don't differentiate between great pool players by homeland. To me pool is a global game and there are great players everywhere now. I see that as a good thing. The game is expanding! I enjoy watching the skills of a Mika or a Ralf, just as much as Efren, Francisco or Dennis O. And Yang and Wu from Taiwan blow me away with their talent. Johnny Archer has undoubtedly been one of pool's greatest champions for nearly twenty years and no one has come close to equalling Earl's accomplishments yet. Shane is right up there with all the other current champions too, and Dennis Hatch is the equal of anyone on planet Earth. You can believe that.
So all in all, I think the USA players have represented themselves well (still ahead 10-5 in Mosconi Cup matches) and will continue to do so in the future.
The competition is indeed very tough out there with all the good players from all over the world. I love it when we can get them all together under one roof, which so rarely happens. That is why I am sickened when there is a major championship in the Philippines and many of the best players are not able to compete, right in their homeland. Hopefully that has been corrected now.
I don't differentiate between great pool players by homeland. To me pool is a global game and there are great players everywhere now. I see that as a good thing. The game is expanding! I enjoy watching the skills of a Mika or a Ralf, just as much as Efren, Francisco or Dennis O. And Yang and Wu from Taiwan blow me away with their talent. Johnny Archer has undoubtedly been one of pool's greatest champions for nearly twenty years and no one has come close to equalling Earl's accomplishments yet. Shane is right up there with all the other current champions too, and Dennis Hatch is the equal of anyone on planet Earth. You can believe that.
So all in all, I think the USA players have represented themselves well (still ahead 10-5 in Mosconi Cup matches) and will continue to do so in the future.
The competition is indeed very tough out there with all the good players from all over the world. I love it when we can get them all together under one roof, which so rarely happens. That is why I am sickened when there is a major championship in the Philippines and many of the best players are not able to compete, right in their homeland. Hopefully that has been corrected now.
What the Americans need to keep up with the Europeans is a good league system like we have it in Germany. Played on 9ft tables, all 4 major disciplines are played (that's straight pool, 8-ball, 9-ball, 10-ball). No gambling games like 1p or bank pool, though it's fun to play once in a while.
We have strict rules regarding clothing, alcohol and cigarettes during league matches and with the new smoking laws at most places it's also forbidden to smoke during the week at your club's room
Parents are happy to send their kids to pool clubs as we regard it as a sport that helps learning to keep up concentration and is a nice opposition to soccer etc and success comes quickly for the kids.
As a junior you can sign up for the state championships (we adults have to qualify) and if you're among the first 3 you're invited to the national junior championships and become a part of the state's junior squad with special coaching held every two weeks.
Juniors play with adults in the league system, for example Dominic Jentsch who ran 150 and out at the adult's german championship plays premier league at Hannover, youngest premier league player is Manuel Ederer aged 15 and he faces players like Feijen (BC Oberhausen) and Ortmann (Hannover) in league play. He finished 3rd at the Junior World Championships
So with Hohmann being our "youngest" professional we have a couple of players waiting for their chance
Americans have to get going, dropping bar boxes for 9ft league play, get the kids off the road into normal pool halls with organized league play and good players or they lose touch with Europe
We have strict rules regarding clothing, alcohol and cigarettes during league matches and with the new smoking laws at most places it's also forbidden to smoke during the week at your club's room
Parents are happy to send their kids to pool clubs as we regard it as a sport that helps learning to keep up concentration and is a nice opposition to soccer etc and success comes quickly for the kids.
As a junior you can sign up for the state championships (we adults have to qualify) and if you're among the first 3 you're invited to the national junior championships and become a part of the state's junior squad with special coaching held every two weeks.
Juniors play with adults in the league system, for example Dominic Jentsch who ran 150 and out at the adult's german championship plays premier league at Hannover, youngest premier league player is Manuel Ederer aged 15 and he faces players like Feijen (BC Oberhausen) and Ortmann (Hannover) in league play. He finished 3rd at the Junior World Championships
So with Hohmann being our "youngest" professional we have a couple of players waiting for their chance
Americans have to get going, dropping bar boxes for 9ft league play, get the kids off the road into normal pool halls with organized league play and good players or they lose touch with Europe
Hey, Berry, is there a European pool forum available for European pool enthusiasts? I was just curious.
America is superior when it come to anything and everything related to pool. AzBilliards is a great forum, ain't it?
I have only just seen this thread which has obviously been going on for months.
Nobody can deny the success of the Americans over the past 50 years but they were competing among themselves, times are now achanging. I am English but live in Spain and I can tell you that 20 years ago the American game as we call it, didn´t exist in this country or my native country.
A lot has happened over the past 20 years.
Most countries in Europe are much better organised than the USA with training programs for juniors being one important example. In Spain we even have a residential facility for youngsters who spend 3 to 4 hours a day learning and playing pool with qualified instructors and that is apart from their normal studies.
There are lots of forums in Europe but as most of them are in the language of the separate countries, most non English speakers wouldn´t understand. However, the best English speaking forum is pro9.co.uk.
One last word, most of the Americans that post on this excellent forum are of European descent I guess.
O RLY?
Thanks for your thoughtful and well-written post. I appreciate you taking to time to share your opinion.
It is amazing that the majority of European pool folk seem to gravitate towards this forum, a forum made in the U.S.A. Of course, there must be a reason why some top European pool champions prefer to live in the United States. I wonder why that is. I mean, if the pool environment, tournaments, training, et cetera, is so superior in Europe compared to America, you'd think these European pool champions would plant their butts on their home soil. :grin-square:
Oh, as far as the majority of posters on this excellent forum -- and I agree that this forum is excellent -- you can be sure that the majority of forum members HERE are Americans, not Europeans. It's just that the Europeans are the loudest. :wink:
Check out the Mosconi cup, if you don't believe me. It's the best display of barbaric and primative behavior I've ever seen.
Here's a great tribute to our brethren of European players: European Pool at its Best
As a European, here's my humble (believe it or not lol) opinion. In the last 20 years the Earth got smaller because of internet (forums, live streaming, youtube...), tv, faster and cheaper ways to travel and so on. You Americans are the Masters of the Game (one of them sleeps next to you, Jam) and nobody will ever deny that. But in the third millennium it's much easier to learn and improve from over here.
"We" simply got better, by getting our a** kicked first and then practising hard what you did to kick it. Nowadays there's no more difference between US or Euro of Asian pool players, it's just who shoots better at that time, the competition is tougher and this is a good thing for the game.
I agree with some Europeans in here about the youth programs. I'm not into US junior training of course, but as far as I can see over here in most countries there's a very good organization for the kids. When I started playing, nobody would give me the opportunity to learn and practise the proper way, I just had to sit and watch better players. Now the best young shooters here are constantly followed by instructors, they have training programs and play pool as a sport. We are right now introducing online training, the coach and the student are connected by webcam and practise together every day even if they live very far from each other.
I don't agree with generalizations like "Americans are of European descent" or "Europeans are the loudest". We are worldwide pool players in 2009, there are a**holes (a lot) and class acts (a few) everywhere, that's all. We are all doing something for the game, Jam and her Man, Peter (he's very dedicated to the promotion of pool in Spain since many years if u didn't know), Mr. Helfert and many more. If in 20 more years some players from Africa will join the winners circle, that will be a good news for all.
About forums: I have to say thanks to AZ forum, even if I don't write often (mainly because it's not my mothertongue and it takes too much 4 me to write something that makes sense lol), because I've learned so much from it and my game improved a lot. I still have a sheet of paper where I printed an advice from Keith "McJam"
in my cuecase since like 5 yrs (btw, congrats for the well deserved rights for TCOM. I've got 3 copies). Once in a while I come to US to play tournaments and I always found good friends and nice people. I will teach what I'm learning from you, and the Philipinos, and whoever else to my students (I hope one of them will belong to a future European Mosconi winning team if u dont mind lol).
Hey isn't Mosconi an Italian name? (just kidding lol)
My € 0.02
"We" simply got better, by getting our a** kicked first and then practising hard what you did to kick it. Nowadays there's no more difference between US or Euro of Asian pool players, it's just who shoots better at that time, the competition is tougher and this is a good thing for the game.
I agree with some Europeans in here about the youth programs. I'm not into US junior training of course, but as far as I can see over here in most countries there's a very good organization for the kids. When I started playing, nobody would give me the opportunity to learn and practise the proper way, I just had to sit and watch better players. Now the best young shooters here are constantly followed by instructors, they have training programs and play pool as a sport. We are right now introducing online training, the coach and the student are connected by webcam and practise together every day even if they live very far from each other.
I don't agree with generalizations like "Americans are of European descent" or "Europeans are the loudest". We are worldwide pool players in 2009, there are a**holes (a lot) and class acts (a few) everywhere, that's all. We are all doing something for the game, Jam and her Man, Peter (he's very dedicated to the promotion of pool in Spain since many years if u didn't know), Mr. Helfert and many more. If in 20 more years some players from Africa will join the winners circle, that will be a good news for all.
About forums: I have to say thanks to AZ forum, even if I don't write often (mainly because it's not my mothertongue and it takes too much 4 me to write something that makes sense lol), because I've learned so much from it and my game improved a lot. I still have a sheet of paper where I printed an advice from Keith "McJam"
in my cuecase since like 5 yrs (btw, congrats for the well deserved rights for TCOM. I've got 3 copies). Once in a while I come to US to play tournaments and I always found good friends and nice people. I will teach what I'm learning from you, and the Philipinos, and whoever else to my students (I hope one of them will belong to a future European Mosconi winning team if u dont mind lol).Hey isn't Mosconi an Italian name? (just kidding lol)
My € 0.02
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As a European, here's my humble (believe it or not lol) opinion. In the last 20 years the Earth got smaller because of internet (forums, live streaming, youtube...), tv, faster and cheaper ways to travel and so on. You Americans are the Masters of the Game (one of them sleeps next to you, Jam) and nobody will ever deny that. But in the third millennium it's much easier to learn and improve from over here.
"We" simply got better, by getting our a** kicked first and then practising hard what you did to kick it. Nowadays there's no more difference between US or Euro of Asian pool players, it's just who shoots better at that time, the competition is tougher and this is a good thing for the game.
I agree with some Europeans in here about the youth programs. I'm not into US junior training of course, but as far as I can see over here in most countries there's a very good organization for the kids. When I started playing, nobody would give me the opportunity to learn and practise the proper way, I just had to sit and watch better players. Now the best young shooters here are constantly followed by instructors, they have training programs and play pool as a sport. We are right now introducing online training, the coach and the student are connected by webcam and practise together every day even if they live very far from each other.
I don't agree with generalizations like "Americans are of European descent" or "Europeans are the loudest". We are worldwide pool players in 2009, there are a**holes (a lot) and class acts (a few) everywhere, that's all. We are all doing something for the game, Jam and her Man, Peter (he's very dedicated to the promotion of pool in Spain since many years if u didn't know), Mr. Helfert and many more. If in 20 more years some players from Africa will join the winners circle, that will be a good news for all.
About forums: I have to say thanks to AZ forum, even if I don't write often (mainly because it's not my mothertongue and it takes too much 4 me to write something that makes sense lol), because I've learned so much from it and my game improved a lot. I still have a sheet of paper where I printed an advice from Keith "McJam"
Hey isn't Mosconi an Italian name? (just kidding lol)
My € 0.02
You know, I like you, Tom. I like you a lot, even if you are a European. :wink:
That was a very nice post, well thought out, articulate, and to the point. It was a post which actually has a lot of truth in it as it pertains all membesr of the world getting on stage in pool, to include Africa. And let's not forget Central and South America, two continents which are not afforded the opportunities that other countries provide to their pool players. There just might be a few "Efren Reyes" in Africa, South America, and Central America that we don't even know about -- YET!
Are you sure you're not of American descent? :grin-square:
one caveat to my above post...
There is always one Drunk at every pool hall I got to...so the two places do have that in common...
Smoke <--one drunk
There is always one Drunk at every pool hall I got to...so the two places do have that in common...
Smoke <--one drunk
although my posts are loud, my intentions are good.
As a youth coach and pool lover I realy hope the US will get a proper federation with a good tour, youth programs, training centers and positive exposure.
Now, its just not good enough to compete in the world and there are not enough youngsters for the future. Work on it now or except that you are no longer a dominant player in the world of pool. And I miss the USA as a dominant player...
(look at all the European people that post here with their league's, youth programs, Eurotours, European Championships etc. etc.)
As a youth coach and pool lover I realy hope the US will get a proper federation with a good tour, youth programs, training centers and positive exposure.
Now, its just not good enough to compete in the world and there are not enough youngsters for the future. Work on it now or except that you are no longer a dominant player in the world of pool. And I miss the USA as a dominant player...
(look at all the European people that post here with their league's, youth programs, Eurotours, European Championships etc. etc.)