What Second hand smoke symtoms do you experience?

[Paul Dayton]

The cost for health related issues caused by smoking related diseases is hundreds of billions of dollars a year. How would it hurt the national economy if these costs disappeared?

Smoking may be something started voluntarily, but quitting is a matter of overcoming an addiction greatly strengthened by the tobacco companies intentional use of tobacco leaves with the highest nicotine content. It has killed more people than all the wars ever fought.

If tobacco was something just discovered, there is 0.0000% chance it would ever be allowed to be used. In 25 years it won't be allowed in any building where someone objects and if Virginia and North Carolina can ban it, so will the rest of the country and most of the developed world.

 

[D_Lewis]

COCO, do you know that the Canadian dollar is different to ours?? it works out to be about the same price there as here. The whole they are 413-15 a pack to make up for sick smokers was a non starter bud. LOL, good try though

have a look and check the exchange rate Mark.

1.00 CAD = 0.951220 USD
Canada Dollars United States Dollars
1 CAD = 0.951220 USD 1 USD = 1.05128 CAD


www.xe.com

 

[Drew]

Bars, poolrooms, Wal-Marts, etc count as public places. Private places require memberships and whatnot. Your home is a private place, however if you use your home as a home office or you drive a work vehicle, they count as workplaces and are no longer protected as private.

I have two bets for you.
1) if Donny was standing in front of you, you wouldnt say nearly the things you decided it was a good idea to post on the internet.
2) You wont be able to smoke in any business in your area in 10 years. Including bars, restaurants, poolrooms etc.

Let me know if you'd like either bet.

Lol sure, I'll take the first one. Make the bet high enough to cover my plane ticket. Easy money there.

Bars, poolrooms, Wal-Marts, etc are privately owned establishments. You can go into details about memberships but it doesn't matter. Some bars restrict "membership" to people over the age of 21. Everybody is a "member" of Wal-Mart by default. In the end, Wal-Mart does reserve the right to kick you out. Private, as the name implies, is something that is privately owned. Public, also as the name implies, is something that is publicly owned.

Now I'll offer you a ridiculous bet like the one you offered me.
In 10 years, after smoking has been banned everywhere outside of your residence, the number of second-hand smoke related deaths will not have dropped.

 

[trustyrusty]

I knew when I started reading this post how it'd turn out....smoker's rights, non-smokers rights, business owners right....

I will still side with the business owners. It is their right to drive away business if their place is too smoky for some. It is also the right of a business owner to have a non-smoking place that competes directly with the smoking establishment. If both businesses thrive GREAT; there's the deciding factor. Letting the government decide SUCKS! The excriment, rats, etc. comments are NOT the same. Will you go back to a place night after night with CRAP (literally) on the floor? Have you ever gone back to places that allow smoking? Both would be your choice, but I'm guessing one is more tollerable to most than others - otherwise this thread would be - symptoms from feces covered places you play.

Personally I'd choose playing in a non-smoking environment, but I still don't think the government should dictate that to all business owners. My state has a smoking ban, but of course there are places that blatently disregard that law....I have been to some of them, and I can leave them ANYTIME I wish, and no one held a gun to my head to go into them to begin with (I KNEW folks where smoking inside). Just like no one holds a gun to my head to order a couple dozen wings in a bar playing pool or watching a game.....bad for my health likely, waiting for than ban anytime! In fact, get rid of all chairs in all establishments and install threadmills or ellipticals instead, any red meat of any kind - gone, and vitamin injections required for any meal eaten outside of your own house.

If folks can't make the right choices on their own, bummer, but I also agree I shouldn't have to pay for their poor choices.....so it's a lose lose situation for me no matter how it all turns out. I quit, this debate makes me sicker than just about anything I could inhale directly or indirectly.

 

[D_Lewis]

Lol sure, I'll take the first one. Make the bet high enough to cover my plane ticket. Easy money there.

Bars, poolrooms, Wal-Marts, etc are privately owned establishments. You can go into details about memberships but it doesn't matter. Some bars restrict "membership" to people over the age of 21. Everybody is a "member" of Wal-Mart by default. In the end, Wal-Mart does reserve the right to kick you out. Private, as the name implies, is something that is privately owned. Public, also as the name implies, is something that is publicly owned.

Now I'll offer you a ridiculous bet like the one you offered me.
In 10 years, after smoking has been banned everywhere outside of your residence, the number of second-hand smoke related deaths will not have dropped.

Change it to 15 years.

I accept your bet, name your price.

 

[JD_Hogg]

I think pool halls are public places and should all be smoke free

Smoke that crap outside

 

[JesPiddlin]

Public, private... What you guys are trying to say is that you had to get a permit to build it and a permit to run it and another permit to sell alcohol there and probably another permit to post a sign out by the street....

When you get a business permit/license, your private establishment becomes a business, which means it has rules to go by. It's like being on the forum. You can look around for free, but you can't post. If you want to post, you have to agree to go by the rules. There's the catchya!

What you do in your private home is up to you, as long as you are not doing anything that endangers others outside your home.

When I was younger, I pushed for smokers rights, too. Now that I'm working my butt off to get my health back, I'd love to have the opportunity to go back and kick myself in the rear and push for the right to breathe, instead. I'd absolutely do things different, if I could go back and do it over. If I'd known I was going to suffer so badly from second hand smoke, I'd have never picked up a cigarette. But, I was addicted and it was near impossible to quit, or so I thought. After so many years and a very strong addiction, quitting was a very scary thought.

I believe the question WAS "What Second hand smoke symtoms do you experience?"

One of the worst symptoms I experience is having to listen to / read the addicted ones whining about how their right to endanger the health of others is being threatened.

 

[Drew]

Public, private... What you guys are trying to say is that you had to get a permit to build it and a permit to run it and another permit to sell alcohol there and probably another permit to post a sign out by the street....

When you get a business permit/license, your private establishment becomes a business, which means it has rules to go by. It's like being on the forum. You can look around for free, but you can't post. If you want to post, you have to agree to go by the rules. There's the catchya!

What you do in your private home is up to you, as long as you are not doing anything that endangers others outside your home.

When I was younger, I pushed for smokers rights, too. Now that I'm working my butt off to get my health back, I'd love to have the opportunity to go back and kick myself in the rear and push for the right to breathe, instead. I'd absolutely do things different, if I could go back and do it over. If I'd known I was going to suffer so badly from second hand smoke, I'd have never picked up a cigarette. But, I was addicted and it was near impossible to quit, or so I thought. After so many years and a very strong addiction, quitting was a very scary thought.

I believe the question WAS "What Second hand smoke symtoms do you experience?"

One of the worst symptoms I experience is having to listen to / read the addicted ones whining about how their right to endanger the health of others is being threatened.

Nothing to do with smokers' rights. Their rights are the same as non-smokers' rights. It has everything to do with property owners' rights. On your property, you are KING. At least until the do-gooders of the world take that away.

 

[genomachino]

I smoke but it wouldn't bother me one bit if they banned smoking in pool rooms here. I don't smoke in my house because I don't want it to stink of smoke. I'm at a point now where I'd really like to quit but I find it very difficult to. My wife had cervical cancer earlier this year and she had to quit smoking 2 weeks before her surgery. She hasn't started back, although she's always saying she wants a cigarette..........but I won't let her. Maybe I'll try to make it my new years resolution.................again.
MULLY

What better reason to quit than for someone you love. That's how I quit.

Good luck...............

 

[Neil]

....................

 

[trustyrusty]

I think pool halls are public places and should all be smoke free

Smoke that crap outside

by public, I'm guessing many think that they are paid for by taxpayer money, not the operating costs paid by the OWNER!

PERMITS? really? I had to have permits to build my house, a permit for an addition, and a permit, to build a deck, and pour a patio to put my hottub on....Taking away rights of a business owner has nothing to do with permits. The owner doesn't have the option to have a smoking permit like they have the option to have one for alcohol.

As a customer, you have the right to not give your business to those whose practices/business you don't agree with. Nobody forces you to go to a bar with smoking allowed, just like nobody forces you to eat artery clogging food that is served there.

While I agree that smoking is harmful to your health, letting the government say where it should be allowed (even on NON government property) is just not right. There are many things that could be considered "better for the collective", but I don't want the government telling me what I can eat and where, or what I can drive and how far, or etc. etc. etc. Essentially they already CHARGE folks extra for things they deem not very good, now it seems ok to tell folks they just can't do some things at all on others' property. We are NOT talking about something illegal here. Make smoking completely ILLEGAL then, don't just shove BANS on business owners.

As much as I hate the red itchy eyes and smelling horrible after going into a smoking establishment, I hate even more that the business owner is TOLD he/she can't allow something that should be their choice in/on their property. sorry.

 

[sausage]

But again, it was a CHOICE. The idea that the government can tell adults how to live their lives and run their businesses makes me nauseous. just my opinion...

it's not about big-gov, it's about drug addicts forcing their drugs on everyone around them. another issue is the danger to the employees of the businesses that allow smoking. everyone has the right to work in a safe environment. a business filled with cig smoke is not safe for anyone.

Think about it. How would it hurt a business if every single public indoor place was non smoking?? Everybody would still go because you wouldn't be allowed to smoke inside any public place.

generally smoking bans are local city ordinances. many bars and clubs are on the outer limits of the city and will lose business to nearby bars not included in the ban.

 

[sausage]

As a customer, you have the right to not give your business to those whose practices/business you don't agree with. Nobody forces you to go to a bar with smoking allowed, just like nobody forces you to eat artery clogging food that is served there.

i agree to an extent but your argument does not take into account the employees of said smoking establishment who must pay their bills and therefore work in an unsafe environment. nor does it consider that many people do not understand the dangers of second hand smoke. i was at clicks iun north dallAss and a young couple came in there with a newborn baby. IDIOTS! the baby had no choice.... also, businesses are often forced to comply with many other safety standards such as fire sprinklers, emergency exits et.... just because the danger from cig smoke is not immediate doesn't mean that gov shouldn't step in to save people from this hazard.

 

[sausage]

Nothing to do with smokers' rights. Their rights are the same as non-smokers' rights. It has everything to do with property owners' rights. On your property, you are KING. At least until the do-gooders of the world take that away.

well, if an adult decides to light up a joint or snort some coke in THEIR OWN HOME, prohibitionist thugs can bust down your doors and threaten to kill you for your own good. property rights and the right to own our bodies were lost long ago when Ronnie and Nancee restarted Nixon's failed drug war.

 

[ugotactionTX]

isn't the difference you're trying to illustrate really between an ILLEGAL product and a LEGAL one?

 

[Drew]

it's not about big-gov, it's about drug addicts forcing their drugs on everyone around them. another issue is the danger to the employees of the businesses that allow smoking. everyone has the right to work in a safe environment. a business filled with cig smoke is not safe for anyone.

Who's forcing drugs on anyone? YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE IN AN ENVIRONMENT FILLED WITH SMOKERS!!!!!

I've left a number of restaurants because they were too smokey inside. See? It's not impossible. All you have to do is stand up and leave.

I can even remember a time when there were smoking and non-smoking sections. I think business owners figured out that a lot of their customers like to smoke, and a lot of their customers don't want to be around smokers.

So yes, it actually is about big-gov trying to control what happens on private property. It's none of their business. It's none of your business. If you don't like the environment, then leave. Nobody is forcing you to be there. I just don't see what's so hard about that.

i agree to an extent but your argument does not take into account the employees of said smoking establishment who must pay their bills and therefore work in an unsafe environment. nor does it consider that many people do not understand the dangers of second hand smoke. i was at clicks iun north dallAss and a young couple came in there with a newborn baby. IDIOTS! the baby had no choice.... also, businesses are often forced to comply with many other safety standards such as fire sprinklers, emergency exits et.... just because the danger from cig smoke is not immediate doesn't mean that gov shouldn't step in to save people from this hazard.

Bla bla bla....bottom line, nobody is forcing anybody to work in that environment either. You have a right to be safe at work by choosing your place of employment, not by forcing your employer to change the environment. Your employer is your customer; you don't force your customers to do shit.

 

[Koop]

30 years ago, I smoked ...

...in airplanes, restaurants, elevators, grocery stores, hospital waiting rooms, other peoples homes, pool rooms, cars, hotel rooms, my office, in other people's offices, when taking clients out to lunch, when taking a shower, around children, in bed I would wake up every few hours and smoke. I chain smoked too and mashed the butts out on the store's tiled floor or sidewalk or gutter or threw them lit out a car window.

And so did most everybody else.

What the hell was wrong with us? Did those glamorous cowboy ads and movie stars smoking on the screen really make us that stupid?

Quitting smoking was both one of the most difficult things I've ever done and certainly one of the most rewarding.

Chris

Ditto....Great post Chris.

 

[donny mills]

Why wouldn't that be okay? I think places like that exist...they're called shooting ranges.

You like to play pool and you don't want to be around smokers? Simple solution: put a pool table in your home. Nobody's stopping you from having your own non-smoking poolroom. But don't go around instructing other people how to run their establishments. I'll tell you what, if you walk onto my property and order me to stop smoking, I'll swiftly kick you out. Just like if I walk into your home and light up a cigarette.

All this talk of economy is pretty much worthless if you don't know what you're talking about. You have to realize that tobacco is still one of the highest grossing cash crops that this country produces.

Oh and by the way. Bars, poolrooms, Wal-Marts, malls, and 99% of the buildings in this country are PRIVATE. Public places would be courthouses, national/state/municipal parks, police and fire buildings, and public schools.

How about you don't tell me what I can and can't with my property, and I don't tell you what you can and can't do with your property? Sound fair?

Well all these places that you say are private property are open to the public, and years ago you could smoke inside any business I believe. They used to have advertisements of doctors smoking cigs like it was a good choice lol.

All I know is the reason why people aren't allowed to smoke inside most places now is because it kills people that choose not to smoke. That is why eventually all pool halls and any indoor businesses will be non smoking.

Alot of people will live longer lives if indoor smoking is banned. That's all that should matter. By the way what property are you talking about anyway? lol.

 

[ccshrimper]

I went to a tournament I really enjoyed a while back but by the end of the night it looked like a fog across the pool hall. I couldn't wait to leave it even though I was heading into the second day in the winners side. How anyone can say it doesn't affect your health boggles my mind.

New studies (NOT RELATED TO SMOKING) have shown the effects of eating smoked foods too often can increase your chances of cancer. Make smoking illegal indoors everywhere in the US and let's be the smart drug dealer of the world and sell it, not use it.

 

[sausage]

isn't the difference you're trying to illustrate really between an ILLEGAL product and a LEGAL one?

legal drug users championed zero tolerance laws for illegal drug users. now they're upset because the gov is attacking their drugs of choice. just wait..... the idiot leaders that THEY voted into office will one day make felons of tobacco users and create an entire new tobacco black market rife with gangs, guns and revenge killings. it's already started to happen because the price of tobacco is cheaper on the streets. be careful what you ask for folks....