Venom Trickshots

Can't wait,,,,,,,,

I for one like to see ''out takes'' and in this case ''misses'',,,,,i think it shows all the work that went into an endeavor like this,,,not to mention,,they're fun.....

In the past,,,stars such as Burt Reynolds as well as sports announcer, Marv Albert would be ''regulars '' on the Carson show and Letterman just doing a segment on ''BLOOPERS''....

Nate 's work is as classy as he as a person is,,,,I hope he does alot more dvd's in the future,,,,,,,,,,,,!!,,,,,,,,,Alan.........
 
nathandumoulin said:
A quick note regarding my last post. If I sounded angry, then I apologize. It just gets under my skin when people are so quick to criticize, only to then wonder why our industry struggles.
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I wouldn't worry about it. I'm the first one in line to say trick shots just don't do anything for me anymore. They were cool the first time I saw them, allright the 2nd time and I don't care to even watch them anymore. I'm talking about all the traditional trick shots that everyone has been shooting for the past 40 years.

It's great that Venom came along and turned the whole trick shot presentation on it's head. He has a whole slew of trick shots you've never seen before and one's you never thought you would see. That's innovation and it's a great thing for the game of pool.

I think anyone would love to be able to see how it all happens. Anyone watching a trailer of a bunch of trick shots, is great for non stop entertainment, but I would think people would really like to see how it all happens, the misses, the screwups. It gives them a idea of just how hard it is to make these wild crazy shots. No one wants to see the same shot 30 times, but 4 or 5 attempts would give a person a glimpse into the difficulty of the shot.

BTW, what software are you using to edit and burn?
 
I just got the DVD also and watched it last night. That guy has some talent! Not just a stroke but what an imagination.

The ones that got me were the jump shots off the rails, I've never seen anyone try those (not to that level of complexity anyway).
 
Thanks for the kind words Alen, Cali, and Alex. Florian also says thanks, as he's been following a lot of the related threads online to see how people are responding to his efforts.

"CaliRed". said:
BTW, what software are you using to edit and burn?
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Cali, I have a pretty crazy workflow, far more advanced than people might imagine. Here's how I handle my post production:

1) Rough edit in Adobe Premiere then export to intermediary codec
2) Time ramping and remaping in After Effects then re export (allows me to speed up and slow down parts of a clip, rather then slow down the whole clip)
3) Proper edit in Premiere to the music and then re export
4) Fix up any flaws in the footage (like removing second camera man in the background, cords, lights, camera cranes, etc), all in After Effects
5) Create 3d logos and titles in Soft Image XSI
6) Composite everything together in After Effects
7) Color correct in After Effects, add that soft glamor glow, and crush the blacks for that "black void" look
8) Audio sweetening in Adobe Soundbooth (clean up the background noises and modify the shot sounds to be more consistent)
9) Audio sound effects layered in Adobe Audition
10) Final Render
11) Downscale from HD into SD using AvSynth and Virtual dub (best way to make footage look good in standard def without having to pay insane license fees)
12) Make DVD menus in Photoshop, and backgrounds in After Effects
13) Import into Adobe Encore and program DVD interface
14) Output master (I do both proper PAL and NTSC version, so thats really the last 3-4 steps done twice with different settings)
15) Press glass master and replicate at manufacturing plant.

As you can see, it's a LOT more work then anyone might think...and this is AFTER all the pre production and filming. It takes me about 4-6 months to make a single movie, and about $20,000 of my own money (which I borrow since Im broke). lol
 
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Constructive criticism

Got my video in the mail the other day and had to sit down and watch it last night. I made my non pool-playing housemates watch it with me, so I fast forwarded through the commentary and got straight to the shots and outtakes.

Florian is amazingly creative and superbly talented. Hitting a moving ball is not easy, and hitting it with the precision that he does, is mind-blowing. Hell, I can't even hit the ball that precise when it's NOT moving!

I enjoyed the video very much but I have to be honest that I was expecting more from the presentation. The cameras were crystal clear and shot in very high quality, so I don't have any issues with that at all. The two things that bothered me were the camera angles and the amount of time devoted to each shot. I'll explain a bit.

First of all, I didn't care for the camera angles where you can't see the whole table and Florian shooting. I would have preferred that every shot be done with a full-table view followed up by zoomed-in views and what-not. In my opinion, the Semih Sayginer videos on youtube are the ones to emulate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8hriqG7JPU for example). Each shot is shown in a full table view so the viewer can see what is going on, then the nuances of the shot are shown in closer detail and slowed down. It was really distracting to me visually to not have the frame of reference that seeing the whole table provides.

The other thing I didn't like was that the video really felt like an extension of the trailer. The shots felt like they were rushed through one after the other. I didn't time how long we were watching, but with the shots and outtakes it really felt like it was only about 20 minutes long. I didn't feel like I had enough time to process one shot before the next one started. Again, I defer to the Semih Sayginer videos like the one linked above. They devote a lot more time to each shot and they do not feel as rushed.

I didn't count the shots, but you said that you filmed 180 shots...even if you devoted 30 seconds to each shot that by itself would be 90 minutes. But the whole thing, with interviews and everything, is just over an hour. It is an hour packed with some of the most amazing trickshots ever seen, but I don't think they received their due.

All in all, I recommend buying the video and I'm glad I did. I will definitely be showing it off to my pool buddies and I'm sure they'll get a kick out of it :)

You've got a great business going and I hope you take this review for what it is, a constructive criticism. I plan on supporting your company in the future and look forward to what you have planned for this year. Also, at my university I am trying to convince our pool club to get the Mastering Pool DVDs for better instruction!
 
Thanks for the review Quatsch83. Much appreciated, and I really like how you've clearly identified the few things that you did not like.

I'd say that I'd take these criticisms into consideration for future productions, but oddly enough, the things that you didn't like are things that I actually did on purpose. In my eyes, they're what truly sets this DVDS apart.

The camera angles are artistic, which are intended to keep the viewers interest. A wide angle shot may show the table layout better, but they don't give you a good sense of excitement. It's a common technique used by the top movie producers, as well as the big sports broadcasters. It's the difference between watching a single cam overhead live stream online, and US Open coverage where they cut in and out to close ups. To get that 'wow factor', the camera really needs to get in close and mix things up.

As Sayginers video, the camera work and style were excellent, however the pacing was wayyyy too slow. Showing the same shot from 4 angles all in slow motion bored me to tears. Almost everyone I've ever shown that video to said the same thing. Its amazing, and Sayginer is a legend, but it's just way too slow. If you've ever seen the full version (not the 7 minutes on youtube, but the real DVD) you'll see what I mean. After 20 attempts, I still dont think I've managed to get through it all in one sittings.

To change it up, I kept my movie pacing quick. The shots come at you a mile a minute, and the result is pure awe. You never get a chance to recover, and your jaw stays firmly dropped. I can understand how you feel this is overload, but that's exactly what's intended. Not only does it keep you watching, but it also gives the video re-watch value. Each time you watch you'll catch shots that you missed during the previous viewing.

Raj Hundle himself emailed me to tell me that he loved the DVD, and watched it 3 times in one day. I'm confident that this is a result of the fast paced editing.

Anyway, al your criticisms are well thought out, and are completely valid. I thank you for taking the time to tell me about them. Maybe if I produce a volume 2 I'll make a few compromises. :)
 
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Nathan, thanks for your response.

I've watched it again after reading your response and I can see where you were going with it. On some of the more spectacular shots I would have loved to see it in slow motion à la Sayginer video. There were some shots that you did slo-mo replays of, and those are great, but I would have liked a few more. Especially on the double massé where Florian runs down to the other end of the table to hit it. That was absolutely sick.

I do agree that the pacing of the Sayginer video was incredibly slow and yours certainly doesn't suffer from that.

I'm sure that as you keep producing videos they'll just get better and better...can't wait to see more!
 
Quatsch83 said:
Nathan, thanks for your response.

I've watched it again after reading your response and I can see where you were going with it. On some of the more spectacular shots I would have loved to see it in slow motion à la Sayginer video. There were some shots that you did slo-mo replays of, and those are great, but I would have liked a few more. Especially on the double massé where Florian runs down to the other end of the table to hit it. That was absolutely sick.

I do agree that the pacing of the Sayginer video was incredibly slow and yours certainly doesn't suffer from that.

I'm sure that as you keep producing videos they'll just get better and better...can't wait to see more!
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I'm in 100% agreement with what you just said here. If I do make a 2nd volume (and I do intend to), I will definitely do what you just suggested. :thumbup:

I also agree with getting better over time. This is only the 2nd movie I've ever made, so once I get the hang of this I'm sure I'll improve. Thanks. :)
 
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Mine hasn't arrived yet. Could you double check to make sure it was sent. Was actually supposed to be sent to my mother as a gift for her husband. I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread. I called and she said it wasn't there yet.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
Mine hasn't arrived yet. Could you double check to make sure it was sent. Was actually supposed to be sent to my mother as a gift for her husband. I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread. I called and she said it wasn't there yet.
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Hmm, you should definitely have received your DVD by now.

What name was the order placed under? I just checked the databse, and nothing comes up under 'Zinzola'. Your email address or Transaction ID will also work if it was used when placing the order.
 
Would have been placed under my name, but sent to Nancy Baker. I will look through the paypal transactions tomorrow, but I have to run out now.

Thanks

Edit:

Just checked my history. If it was paypal, maybe I never completed the order somehow. I don't see any transactions for that amount around the time I thought I ordered. If it was paid with Visa or something, I'll have to check my bank statements. Might be my mistake.
 
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Tony Zinzola said:
Just checked my history. If it was paypal, maybe I never completed the order somehow. I don't see any transactions for that amount around the time I thought I ordered. If it was paid with Visa or something, I'll have to check my bank statements. Might be my mistake.
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Even credit card transactions are processed through Paypal, so it would show up either way. I'll check under 'Nancy Baker' right now see if anything comes up.

EDIT: Nothing comes up. PM me your email maybe? (its the easiest to search for without having the transaction ID)
 
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victorcubed said:
Just got the DVD and watched the entire thing and all I must say is WOW. By far some of the most amazing trickshots I have ever seen. Definitely worth every penny. There were dozens of shots where I couldn't help but laugh because of how ridiculous the shot was, and how well it was executed. The bloopers were purely entertaining, and furthers my appreciation for the time it actually took to film every shot (I wish there was more bloopers).

I also enjoyed the Dutch Doubles runout commentary. Quite entertaining as well.

Well done Nathan and Florian! I am looking forward to Volume 2!

"Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then.":wink:
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lol, I had a good chuckle after reading this. I totally botched that saying, so it amuses me that you called me out on it. :p

And thanks for the compliments. The real credit is due to Florian, as he's an absolute magician. Without him I'd just have some fancy graphics and it would be pointless.
 
I got mine this week and have watched it twice now. My favorite part is the little table shots. I've been watching him on youtube for a year or so. I'm very happy that Nathan produced such a high quality DVD showcasing his rare talent. Florian is simply amazing and I look forward to what he becomes in the future.
 
ratcues said:
I got mine this week and have watched it twice now. My favorite part is the little table shots. I've been watching him on youtube for a year or so. I'm very happy that Nathan produced such a high quality DVD showcasing his rare talent. Florian is simply amazing and I look forward to what he becomes in the future.
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Thanks for the kind words.

Speaking of You tube, it looks like Florian has a new video out. His jumping is so good that he makes a near mockery of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAhxXmUpyo
 
He definitely likes his jump cues. :-)

I have seen Venom on YouTube for a year or so and his creativity is unquestioned. He finds a lot of things that the are normally flukes and turns them into shots he can do consistently.

I would put his type of trick shots in a new category and call it Trick-Stroke shots. Because a lot of them aren't pure stroke shots and they aren't pure "trick" (setup) shots either. They are shots which require timing and coordination and a high level of creativity to figure out what's going to happen.

I like the use of props and the metal circle is pretty neat.

People like Sayginer on the other hand do pure stroke shots without gimmicks and props. Their category is pure skill with no illusion based on props and tricks.

I liken Florian to being the David Blaine of trickshots. He puts together an act that IS mind-blowing. I think a show with him and Sayginer would be the nuts.

One more point regarding the jumping. I wish one these people would put out a video that shows jumping as a controlled shot with game situations. Most of the trick shot guys focus on the JUMP and not the control. Hence the use of racks and cues to guide the balls into the hole. I'd love to see someone like Shawn Putnam or Larry Nevel do a video on the proper way to use a jump cue in game situations. Shawn has some SICK shots that are actually decent percentage shots in game situatons.

Anyway, I am rambling. Can't wait to see the DVD as I know you both worked really hard on it!
 
JB Cases said:
People like Sayginer on the other hand do pure stroke shots without gimmicks and props. Their category is pure skill with no illusion based on props and tricks.

I liken Florian to being the David Blaine of trickshots. He puts together an act that IS mind-blowing. I think a show with him and Sayginer would be the nuts.
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Venom's Youtube clips are quite different than the actual Venom DVD, as like yourself, I'm not a huge fan of the props. As such, I almost completely removed them from the arsenal of trickshots in the DVD. Out of 160+ shots, only 4 use props. Only 3 more are setup shots. The result is almost entirely stroke shots.

As for a match up with Venom and Sayginer, they just had one in Korea recently. Venom defeated Sayginer in the finals with a perfect score (Sayginer kicked his a** at the 3 cushion though lol).

EDIT: I forgot to say thank you for the kind words. It's nice to hear that people understand the time and dedication this sort of movie takes to make.
 
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