8-Ball Strategy

stljohnny

stljohnny

knowledge > execution. :(
Silver Member
I had my second league night ever (i'm a rookie in league-world) the other night and it went much better - meaning I wasn't asked to dumb it down any. Even so, I still only went 1-1. Oh well, not much you can to beat a break'n'run rack.

I noticed something about my own strategic process though.

I had this layout: (or very close to it, based on memory)

8balllayout.jpg


It was my shot and I had ball in hand. As I was looking around the table, I thought I'd start with position A, sink the 3, then the 6, and either play safe with a breakout, or possibly breakout the 5/7 on the 6. But before I could even set the CB down, a co-captain comes over and says to play position B - shoot the 4 off the 12, breaking out the 2, while drawing back for the 3 and starting my original plan there.

I understand that breaking out clusters is very important - I also understand that this was not a rack I was going to run-out on, so I didn't want to free up my opponent's ball - but I don't think I would've ever saw that shot.  I always try to break out clusters through caroming with the cue ball off a shot. It's risky, I know - but I'd rather be at the table with a risky shot, than miss because I was trying to carom/break-out with the object ball.

I've spotted another big difference: playing a safety by sinking your opponent's ball. I can't remember the exact situation, but the most suggested move was to carom off my ball to make the opponents, leaving him totally snookered with nothing to shoot at. I would never intentionally make the opponent's ball. "There has to be another way to get safe." is what my brain says.

Maybe it's a league thing? Maybe it's an 8-ball thing? I don't know for sure, but it's interesting to learn the little tricks.

I'm curious as to what you all would've done - and also how your strategy changes based on the game being played.

Thoughts?
 
This was a fairly tough table. I guess you might could have shot the seven-ball into the upper right-hand corner with draw/drift and tried to put the cue ball on the rail for a draw shot on the five-ball thus breaking out the two-ball and having the four-ball as your insurance ball. It may have worked out that you got a shot on the two-ball also.

Just a thought. Probably not a very good one knowing the way I shoot :embarrassed2:!!!

Maniac
 
Though this was only your second night playing on a league team, I have to assume that you are not a slouch when it comes to playing the game, since you are discussing break-outs and caroms.

That being said, this is a runnable rack if you start from position B. If you notice, starting at B opens that corner pocket for the 7 and 5, so you don't need to break them out using the 6. Use the 2 ball to get on the 3 (position A or similar) and youre home free.

An alternate approach I see also starts near position b as well...Shoot the carom and break out your 2-ball, but move the CB to the short rail where the 7 and 5 are...push the 5 ball out and leave the CB behind the 7. Now your opponent has no shot, and all your trouble balls are open and in much better shape to complete the run. Just leave the 7 ball where it lays and use it to get on the 8-ball and your home free.
 
If the 5 and/or the 7 could be played to the corner opposite where the 2 is, I would choose position B to break out the 2 & follow down for the 5 or 7, after that would be an open runout.
 
it's a choice

Playing safe in 8B by pocketing your opponents ball after a legal hit on your ball ( combo or carom) thus leaving your opponent snookered is a perfectly legitimate, ethical move. You either do it when necessary or you choose to lose. Your teammates will not be happy if you choose to lose.:shrug:
 
Some great ideas here, keep them coming - if there are any more that differ, that is.

I should've paid more attention to the diagram but I didn't expect anyone to notice the 5/7. oops.

The 5 and 7 were very close to frozen, such that the 5 doesn't pass in the lower pocket and the CB wouldn't pass the 7 to get to the 5. The 7 doesn't pass the 5 into the upper corner. So I essentially had 2 clusters to deal with in this rack, and I had to clear the 2/12 out before the 7 would pass into the lower corner.
 
12310bch said:
Playing safe in 8B by pocketing your opponents ball after a legal hit on your ball ( combo or carom) thus leaving your opponent snookered is a perfectly legitimate, ethical move. You either do it when necessary or you choose to lose. Your teammates will not be happy if you choose to lose.:shrug:
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I think the reason this is foreign to me is that I mostly play 9-ball and a little bit of one-pocket... so a) pocketing a ball for a safety isn't a natural idea and b) pocketing your opponent's ball is generally a huge no-no.

I find it interesting just how varied the strategies are between games. :)
 
Using option B is the best way all around (as I see NO downside in it). Your original idea leaves you with no opportunity to get out....I'd rather have the opportunity, and the option to play safe if things don't work out, than resigning to the fact that the opponent will DEFINITELY get another crack at the table.
 
stljohnny said:
I think the reason this is foreign to me is that I mostly play 9-ball and a little bit of one-pocket... so a) pocketing a ball for a safety isn't a natural idea and b) pocketing your opponent's ball is generally a huge no-no.

I find it interesting just how varied the strategies are between games. :)
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I don't play one pocket really, but in some matches I've watched with the top players, they will occasionally sink their opponent's ball in order to not give them a shot.

And in 8 ball, if your opponent's ball is in the pocket it may be blocking your shots, so it can be advantageous to make it and stick him with no shot. Then you'll have a more open table when you get the ball back.
 
stljohnny said:
I think the reason this is foreign to me is that I mostly play 9-ball and a little bit of one-pocket... so a) pocketing a ball for a safety isn't a natural idea and b) pocketing your opponent's ball is generally a huge no-no.

I find it interesting just how varied the strategies are between games. :)
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Well, the more one pocket you play, the more balls you will pocket for your opponent.;) It's a big part of the game really.

As far as your 8 ball situation, I look for option b "type" shots a lot just because it's so difficult to stop a good player from running out with a safety (unless the table is layed out very tough) and every inning at the table is so precious, but I guess it depends on your skill level (and your opponents).

If the 5,7 were tied up, you could have broke them out with the opening shot too (if I'm remembering the diagram correctly).
 
one pocket strategies

Quatsch83 said:
I don't play one pocket really, but in some matches I've watched with the top players, they will occasionally sink their opponent's ball in order to not give them a shot.

And in 8 ball, if your opponent's ball is in the pocket it may be blocking your shots, so it can be advantageous to make it and stick him with no shot. Then you'll have a more open table when you get the ball back.
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Yes, in one pocket you can sink your opponents ball when you can't get it out of the pocket to prevent him from getting position on other balls.
Also there occurs on a fairly regular basis , particularly when both opponents need the last ball to win and it is buried in your opponent's pocket. Your next move ,if possible, would be to pocket the ball in his pocket and scratch the cue ball behind it. Thus
that ball and one penalty ball of yours would come up to be spotted. You opponent would then have to deal with two spotted balls instead of his sure win.
 
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Alex Kanapilly said:
Well, the more one pocket you play, the more balls you will pocket for your opponent.;) It's a big part of the game really.

As far as your 8 ball situation, I look for option b "type" shots a lot just because it's so difficult to stop a good player from running out with a safety (unless the table is layed out very tough) and every inning at the table is so precious, but I guess it depends on your skill level (and your opponents).

If the 5,7 were tied up, you could have broke them out with the opening shot too (if I'm remembering the diagram correctly).
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Just yesterday I had an opponent sink my ball and intentionally scratch in 1P (happens all the time). But he payed for it when I made both balls spotted (first time I've EVER made both)!! :thumbup:
 
12310bch said:
Yes, in one pocket you can sink your opponents ball when you can't get it out of the pocket to prevent him from getting position on other balls.
Also there occurs on a fairly regular basis , particularly when both opponents need the last ball to win and it is buried in your opponent's pocket. Your next move ,if possible, would be to pocket the ball in his pocket and scratch the cue ball behind it. Thus
that ball and one penalty ball of yours would come up to be spotted. You opponent would then have to deal with two spotted balls instead of his sure win.
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That is pretty cool...will definitely make a mental note of that one
 
stljohnny said:
I think the reason this is foreign to me is that I mostly play 9-ball and a little bit of one-pocket... so a) pocketing a ball for a safety isn't a natural idea and b) pocketing your opponent's ball is generally a huge no-no.

I find it interesting just how varied the strategies are between games. :)
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pocketing a ball in your opponents pocket in order to play safe is a perfectly legitimate move in 1 pocket.
 
Neil said:
Another option is to shoot plan B, but with a twist to it. Give yourself an angle on the 4 and follow down to break out the 7-5. You should have a shot on either the 7 or the 5 afterwards.
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This is certainly the shot I would play.

The key is not to go into the 7 hard and to make sure you hit it well on the right (where its lying, it is a big ball, so pretty difficult to get wrong).

Played that way you can either shoot the 7 / 5, or if you do not like the out (the 2 might finish awkward), you should have an easy safe off either 7 or 5.

The point is that you have solved both your problems and only used up one ball doing it. Depending on how the 2 /7 / 5 end up, you will either run out or leave your opponent with a real problem trying to stop you from running out your next go.
 
If the 5 and 7 do not pass, you are in deep doodoo. If they do, you can run this out. Assuming they don't, you have to come up with a creative way to lengthen this game a few innings because stripes has a greenlight and can afford to miss at least once and still maintain control.

You might consider tying up the 3/13 but even then, you may only be delaying the inevitable. Perhaps someone else will come up with something amazing - I don't see a way to win here without your opponent making a critical error.
 
Can you play the five into the 2-12 cluster and leave the cue ball frozen on the 7? This will free up your 5, 7 and hopefully 2 ball, while leaving him a kick to nowhere. With everything in the open, you can probably negotiate an out from whereever on the table he leave you after his kick.
 
Predator5K4 said:
Can you play the five into the 2-12 cluster and leave the cue ball frozen on the 7? This will free up your 5, 7 and hopefully 2 ball, while leaving him a kick to nowhere. With everything in the open, you can probably negotiate an out from whereever on the table he leave you after his kick.
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If this were possible then a runout is available. I think the OP said later that neither ball passed.
 
There's gotta be a way to nudge those balls and freeze up the cue ball. I guess I'm coming back to your first assessment that you have to lengthen the game and probably play a couple lock up safeties. I'm not sure that it will take a critical error from your opponent, though. Depends on how badly you tie him/her up as to how critical the error has to be?
 
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