The smoking issue

[cueandcushion]

It boggles my mind that so many people believe the smoking issue is the first time or biggest thing that the big bad government has regulated.

Anyone ever hear of slavery? You know. Businesses just keeping to themselves picking cotton with some legally purchased slaves. Raping or beating them at will. All perfectly legal and profitable until the big bad evil government freed the slaves. Those b@stards!!!

Seriously. Who wants to live in a world with ZERO laws? Its part of doing business dealing with 1000 laws every single day. This is one more. Most laws are in place because of safety, health, equality issues. Just because it affects YOU more than the last 1000 laws did... doesn't make it a bad thing.

 

[chefjeff]

(snip)
Since then I have been convinced that the answer for establishments that want to allow smoking is to have enough of these to clean the air. I realize that it's an added expense for a business but I feel that it's a good compromise between an outright ban and smoky rooms.

Of course that is the best peaceful answer...but what sane room owner would put out that kind of investment in today's control-freak world where he's afraid that the non-smoking nazis will force the whole town to go non-smoking thus making his investment a big azz waste of money? It is easier for a room owner to just point at the govt-mandated sign and say, "The ban isn't my fault, it's the man's!"

Fear of such tyranny creates negative, unseen, lasting consequences.

Jeff Livingston

EDIT: I just read Craig's post above mine which is a perfect example of what I was saying: Just point at the sign and give in.

 

[dudlock]

The Gov..

It boggles my mind that so many people believe the smoking issue is the first time or biggest thing that the big bad government has regulated.

Anyone ever hear of slavery? You know. Businesses just keeping to themselves picking cotton with some legally purchased slaves. Raping or beating them at will. All perfectly legal and profitable until the big bad evil government freed the slaves. Those b@stards!!!

Seriously. Who wants to live in a world with ZERO laws? Its part of doing business dealing with 1000 laws every single day. This is one more. Most laws are in place because of safety, health, equality issues. Just because it affects YOU more than the last 1000 laws did... doesn't make it a bad thing.

What's so sickening is that Grady could survive and do just fine if they would just let him install five of the Pot o Gold type machines that were perfectly legal up until about July of 2000. Each machine will let you choose what game- keno, blackjack, draw poker, bingo, etc. by just touching the screen giving you choice of many games from one small machine. You could respect the lawmakers choice if not for the fact that they wanted to get into the gambling business (lottery) and cut out every bit of the competition. Meanwhile SC is still at the bottom of the ladder as far as education. And of course if you know the local sheriff well enough you can set up poker machines in a house or other underground establishment and keep on going.. I could go on and on but you get the point I'm sure.......

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

Personal freedom seems to be a relic of the past. It boggles my mind to think of all the laws that have been passed since I was a kid that we did not seem to need then and do not seem to need now. In Georgia a dog owner now faces a $1,000 fine and a year in jail if he fails to pick up poop. Now, I agree that stepping in dog poop is no fun, but in a free country you should have the freedom to be crass, rude and a pain in the butt.

Both sides, liberal and conservative, are equally at fault. Libs want to ban salt in NY and conservatives want to put a curfew on teenagers as if house arrest were some All-American ideal. I don't know where this country is heading, but I am happy to be a senior citizen and not trying to be young in a country as restrictive as this one has become.

 

[DunnM1]

Smoking Ban

I've spent 15 years in the military defending peoples rights. And I truely believe that a person has a right to do just about anything as long as it doesn't step on someone else's freedom right. Smoking does. It stops a non smoker from breathing fresh air. I also have asthma and if you really want to mess someones pool game mess with thier ability to breath, their pool games goes down quickly. I have heard the smokers say you don't have to come to this bar or that bar or this poolhall or that poolhall. But if that establishment has a pool tournament I have just as much right than anyone else to participate in that tournment. I also truely belive that an establishment should not be fined for someone that smokes in their establishment. I think their liquior license should be taken - first offense (30 days), second offense (six months) third offense (one year). Just my thoughts.

 

[beav99_4life]

I've spent 15 years in the military defending peoples rights. And I truely believe that a person has a right to do just about anything as long as it doesn't step on someone else's freedom right. Smoking does. It stops a non smoker from breathing fresh air. I also have asthma and if you really want to mess someones pool game mess with thier ability to breath, their pool games goes down quickly. I have heard the smokers say you don't have to come to this bar or that bar or this poolhall or that poolhall. But if that establishment has a pool tournament I have just as much right than anyone else to participate in that tournment. I also truely belive that an establishment should not be fined for someone that smokes in their establishment. I think their liquior license should be taken - first offense (30 days), second offense (six months) third offense (one year). Just my thoughts.

Mike Dunn?

 

[alstl]

My Dad died from a tumor in his lung and he never smoked but was around smoking most of his life at work.

I know most pool room owners disagree but I don't like to be around smoke when I'm playing pool. If you want to allow people to smoke that's fine with me, I don't think there should be a law forcing you to enforce a smoking ban, but I'm not going to play in your room.

The exception is an APA league I'm in. Our home room is non smoking but on the road we play in smoking rooms. I play but I ask the captain to get me an early match so I can get out of there.

My rule on air is if I can see it I don't want to breathe it.

 

[eddieindetroit]

90% of my customers smoke. ....Thanks for your kind attention.
"The Professor"

Grady,
20% of your customers smoke.
Not 90%. This is the fundamental flaw in your reasoning.
You can't seem to understand that your current business model serves ONLY 20% of your customers.
Eddie

 

[Falcon Eddie]

Sorry Grady, but if you think people sitting around inhaling toxins that kill you is one of our country's greatest characteristics, you're nuts. And as for the second comment, smoking is using a drug, it just happens to be a legal one. And before anyone says anything, this is coming from someone who used to smoke and is still trying to quit smokeless tobacco.

Good Post Beav , there is only ONE pool room in the town I live in. I play about 6-7 hours a day...got pool balls for pillows. I don't smoke, but because I truly love this sport, I'm forced to endure it. For those of you who will now counter with "nobodies forcing you". You are wrong. I'm forcing me. I'm somebody. My chest starts to hurt from inhaling your carbons I just go outside for a breather. If I can go outside to breathe ...they can go outside to smoke.

 

[DunnM1]

More on Smoking Ban

I also believe that if your league team is scheduled to play in an establishment that permits smoking anyone on the team should be allowed to force a change in location back to their home bar/poolhall. But we should not be made to shot there. Or just allow us to pay our fees to compete in the city/state/national tournaments.

 

[chefjeff]

Good Post Beav , there is only ONE pool room in the town I live in. I play about 6-7 hours a day...got pool balls for pillows. I don't smoke, but because I truly love this sport, I'm forced to endure it. For those of you who will now counter with "nobodies forcing you". You are wrong. I'm forcing me. I'm somebody. My chest starts to hurt from inhaling your carbons I just go outside for a breather. If I can go outside to breathe ...they can go outside to smoke.

That's the flip side of liberty: responsibilty for one's decisions. That includes understanding that you (not some magic forcefield) make the decisions if you're free and you get the results, good and bad if you're free. That's the nature of it.

I don't smoke and when McCoy's old place got too smoky, I'd leave, take my money with me and told Roni why. (btw, she quit recently when Iowa went non-smoking so she could work in their newer place without going out for a smoke) I also avoided Big Dog's cuz I bought a table for my home and practice here in a non-smoking environment. Now, I'm out of the habit of going to the pool hall....hmmm.

Who owns the pool hall owner, himself or someone else?

Jeff Livingston

 

[justadub]

Who owns the pool hall owner, himself or someone else?

Jeff Livingston

The pool hall owner does, of course. (He and the bank, natch.)

But that doesn't give him the right to endanger the lives of his patrons, by allowing smoking or any other legal but dangerous activity to occur on his premises, when being licensed by the community and/or state that he does business in. Smoking has been determined to endanger the lives of those who partake, and of those who are subjected to the secondhand effects of that partaking.

Businesses are licensed for a number of reasons, safety of the patrons being one of them. Are you trying to declare that no one should have to have a business license for their enterprise? Just hang a shingle wherever you'd like and it's "Customer beware, enter at your own risk. Anything can and will happen here, so realize it's your choice, you have to endure it." Even if it's technically "legal". Snakes running around loose? Noxious chemicals cooking on a burner? People displaying loaded weapons? Yes, those sound ridiculous, but the point is the same. Those are all legal to have happen in your home. But you can't have them happen at McDonalds.

Just because it's "legal" doesn't mean that anyone should be able to do it in any environment that they please, due to the proximity of others nearby. And a business is by nature "public", unless it is an exclusive club situation. Why can't you smoke in hospitals and courtrooms? Or on buses and airplanes? Or in schools? "Don't like it, go somewhere else! It's a free country! Respect my "liberty", at the expense of yours."

 

[chefjeff]

The pool hall owner does, of course. (He and the bank, natch.)

But that doesn't give him the right to endanger the lives of his patrons, by allowing smoking or any other legal but dangerous activity to occur on his premises, when being licensed by the community and/or state that he does business in. Smoking has been determined to endanger the lives of those who partake, and of those who are subjected to the secondhand effects of that partaking.

Businesses are licensed for a number of reasons, safety of the patrons being one of them. Are you trying to declare that no one should have to have a business license for their enterprise? (snip)."

Yes....most emphatically!

I'm not alone....

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/03/11/licensing-madness/

Jeff Livingston

 

[spktur]

Bottom line tobacco is a legal product in this country regulated and controlled by the FDA. Any smoking ban on a business by the government is a violation of the owner's property rights. Personally, I do smoke cigars, but unlike most cigarette smokers I don't have the need to smoke and quite often go for days without one. I don't like to be in an area where there is heavy cigarette smoke. But the simple truth is I don't have the right to have things my way where ever I go and have to abide by the rules of the house. And I can live with that but we don't need the government running everyone's business for them. The constitution states what the government regulates and the 10th article of the bill of rights states that other than what the constitution states the government doesn't have the right to regulate.

 

[ronshirley]

Bottom line tobacco is a legal product in this country regulated and controlled by the FDA. Any smoking ban on a business by the government is a violation of the owner's property rights. Personally, I do smoke cigars, but unlike most cigarette smokers I don't have the need to smoke and quite often go for days without one. I don't like to be in an area where there is heavy cigarette smoke. But the simple truth is I don't have the right to have things my way where ever I go and have to abide by the rules of the house. And I can live with that but we don't need the government running everyone's business for them. The constitution states what the government regulates and the 10th article of the bill of rights states that other than what the constitution states the government doesn't have the right to regulate.

This and other arguments like it are such b**lsh*t.

Cars are legal products. Should someone be able to drive theirs 100 mph through town?

Guns are legal products. Should someone be able to start shooting into the air outside the poolroom to celebrate a victory?

What about knives? They are legal products. Should someone be able to carve up the door of the poolroom because they want to put their initials in it?

Matches are legal products. Shouldn't it be legal to flip lighted matches around dry brush just because they like to see flames?

The problem with all of these is that they endanger others. Smoke is just as bad.

I have no problem with your drug nicotine. It's only the delivery system that I object to because if affects me and others. You can inject nicotine right into your blood stream for all I care. Its when you choose to subject me to your drug that makes it bad.

My lungs are my property and I do not want you to harm my property. Just like the owner would not like his doors carved up.

Grady and others spouting his Americana and freedom to choose nonsense have certainly not looked at this from an evidentiary standpoint. Studies have shown time and time again that when smoking restrictions are applied to all businesses that nobody suffers. The smokers continue to come and the non-smokers that were staying away come also. Business actually increases.

It's only when these restrictions are applied piecemeal like in one town but not another nearby town that problems arise. That is why these restrictions need to be state-wide, or even country-wide.

Then we will truly have a healthier environment.

 

[spktur]

This and other arguments like it are such b**lsh*t.

Cars are legal products. Should someone be able to drive theirs 100 mph through town?

Guns are legal products. Should someone be able to start shooting into the air outside the poolroom to celebrate a victory?

What about knives? They are legal products. Should someone be able to carve up the door of the poolroom because they want to put their initials in it?

Matches are legal products. Shouldn't it be legal to flip lighted matches around dry brush just because they like to see flames?

The problem with all of these is that they endanger others. Smoke is just as bad.

I have no problem with your drug nicotine. It's only the delivery system that I object to because if affects me and others. You can inject nicotine right into your blood stream for all I care. Its when you choose to subject me to your drug that makes it bad.

My lungs are my property and I do not want you to harm my property. Just like the owner would not like his doors carved up.

Grady and others spouting his Americana and freedom to choose nonsense have certainly not looked at this from an evidentiary standpoint. Studies have shown time and time again that when smoking restrictions are applied to all businesses that nobody suffers. The smokers continue to come and the non-smokers that were staying away come also. Business actually increases.

It's only when these restrictions are applied piecemeal like in one town but not another nearby town that problems arise. That is why these restrictions need to be state-wide, or even country-wide.

Then we will truly have a healthier environment.

And you can take your lungs anywhere you want and the whole world needs to change their ways to meet your needs. Oh and alcohol should be outlawed to protect your liver and cheeseburgers should be outlawed to protect your heart from cholesterol along with any other product which might bring harm to you since you are more important than the rest of the world. By the way how are you going to get to the pool room? I'm sure you must be driving an electric car as an internal combustion engine causes more respiratory problems than smoking does.

 

[beav99_4life]

And you can take your lungs anywhere you want and the whole world needs to change their ways to meet your needs. Oh and alcohol should be outlawed to protect your liver and cheeseburgers should be outlawed to protect your heart from cholesterol along with any other product which might bring harm to you since you are more important than the rest of the world. By the way how are you going to get to the pool room? I'm sure you must be driving an electric car as an internal combustion engine causes more respiratory problems than smoking does.

Well, you consuming alcohol doesn't harm me unless you drive, and guess what, there's a law against that. You eating cheeseburgers doesn't harm me. As for respiratory problems from engines, you're right, thats why there is such a push for cleaner burning engines and alternative fuels. None of your earlier arguments logically pertain to this discussion. You have no right to engage in an illegal activity that harms me and others who do not wish to be around it. How do I know people here don't want to be around it? Our state voted on it.

 

[satman]

I skipped thru part of the post's here

And you can take your lungs anywhere you want and the whole world needs to change their ways to meet your needs. Oh and alcohol should be outlawed to protect your liver and cheeseburgers should be outlawed to protect your heart from cholesterol along with any other product which might bring harm to you since you are more important than the rest of the world. By the way how are you going to get to the pool room? I'm sure you must be driving an electric car as an internal combustion engine causes more respiratory problems than smoking does.

But,,,, in my opinion, A person who owns a poolroom or bar, should have the right to allow people to smoke. They could have said, "you must post a large sign outside all entrances, saying this is a smoking establishment." I quit smoking, about 28 years ago. I am an adult, and able to make my own decisions about whether to be around someone smoking. I don't need the Government or anyone else to say no. What will all you people do, when the government starts to tell you, coffee ain't healthy for you. it's now against the law to have any product with caffein. Or any product that contains alcohol, such as aftershave. They did that once with Prohibition. Do you think it won't happen again, as they take more and more of our rights away. I realize smoke gets in the air, and into peoples lungs who happen to be around it. But trust me, when you start to forfeit freedom of choice for 1 thing, you open the door to lose other freedoms, that you may not want to lose.

I enjoy playing pool in a non-smoking room, and I imagine the owners of those places are finding it keeps the room a lot cleaner and smelling better. But I think a person has a right to operate their business, and make a living without this rule being forced on them.

 

[justadub]

It is always amusing to see folks drape their arguments in "loss of liberty" when the decisions go against something they want.

When the governing body of the land decides upon an action that is in the public's best interest, it is not necessarily in the guise of restricting freedom.

Let's see...

It was discovered that lead-based paint was harmful, and it was then regulated and no longer allowed. How was your "liberty" affected?

DDT was once widely used as a pesticide, until it was discovered to be rather harmful to we humans. Its use was banned. And your "liberty"? Affected much?

Coca Cola once contained cocaine. Once that little snafu was discovered, it was eliminated. All chuckling aside, did that affect your "liberty"?

I'm sure we could do this all day. (Actually, we have been doing this, on thread after thread after thread.) Governments ban harmful products all the time, and will continue to do so. The fact that people want to continue to use those harmful products doesn't equate to a "loss of liberty", it simply means that those people will be breaking the law of the land when they choose to continue to do something that will harm other people.

Pretty simple. I am sorry that it bothers you smokers so much, and I understand why it does. The addiction is insidious. Sadly, you smokers aren't at all sympathetic with the fact that non-smokers do not want to be subjected to your harmful habit. And you aren't concerned with my "loss of liberty" at all. Apparently "liberty" has many definitions, and apparently some are more deserving of their particular version of "liberty" than others. Again, we don't care if you continue to smoke. We just don't want to smoke along with you, and smell like you. And die of cancer or some other respiratory disease along with you. That is where your "liberty" ends and mine begins.

 

[spktur]

Well, you consuming alcohol doesn't harm me unless you drive, and guess what, there's a law against that. You eating cheeseburgers doesn't harm me. As for respiratory problems from engines, you're right, thats why there is such a push for cleaner burning engines and alternative fuels. None of your earlier arguments logically pertain to this discussion. You have no right to engage in an illegal activity that harms me and others who do not wish to be around it. How do I know people here don't want to be around it? Our state voted on it.

I'm not talking about me consuming alcohol or cheeseburgers. There needs to be a law to stop you from drinking or eating so that you don't cause a drain on the public in general by your bad habits. These cost an undetermined amount of expense in health care and and lost productivity on the job which society has to make up due to your lack of consideration.